MANN
45 posts
Aug 08, 2009
5:18 AM
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Whats up every one. I know that it takes all to produce good birds but which one do you fell you are better at Breeding, Flying or Culling.
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1294 posts
Aug 08, 2009
7:26 AM
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Chad, I don't see how you can only be good at one part of the whole. Without flying you can not pick breeders, without proper management you can not advance the quality of your kit birds. Fail in any part and I think you fail in the whole.
Thom
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3520 posts
Aug 08, 2009
8:20 AM
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Thom, I have to disagree a little here. Here is why, what you just described are several activities that make up an entire "process". A process can only be as successful as its "weakest" activity.
If there were not weaknesses inherent in the process, everyone would easily cultivate high quality stock at a predictable pace.
I think Chad could ask a better question by asking, what part of the process is the weakest, for there is the leverage point, the place where real economical (faster/easier) improvement will be accomplished.
So, to move a loft program forward, find the weakest activity (constraint) within the process and there is where you make forward progress.
I have made it a personal objective of mine to study systems and processes. In my booklet "How To Breed Better Rollers", I get into this concept as it relates to rollers in a deeper way. This is the approach I take to my developing and maintaining my Ruby Roller stock.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1295 posts
Aug 08, 2009
9:26 AM
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Tony, I think we are looking at the question from different perspectives. In his question Chad asks which you are better at and at the same time acknowledges you must do all three.
I see the question as a triangle with each part becoming one leg, remove any part and the whole will collapse.
Without adequate proficiency in all three parts, I still think the whole will fail or not progress.
I also agree that identifying the weakest areas and improving there will move a program forward.
Thom
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3522 posts
Aug 08, 2009
9:46 AM
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Thom, I see your point. To use your analogy, and my thoughts on systems, imagine the 3-legged stool, but with 1 leg slightly shorter than the other.
A workable stool, but a pain in the arse to sit on. lol The question then for me is what is the best way to bring balance to the stool? Cut the other 2 legs shorter? Or extend the shorter leg? Now the way to proceed will depend on the goal of the system (process), and resources available.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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katyroller
499 posts
Aug 08, 2009
9:52 AM
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I say a fancier has to be equally strong in all three areas. I don't see how you could be stronger or weaker in any of the three areas and be successful. I could be getting too far into the question but if I say I am strong at breeding, then I would have had to have been strong at flying and culling. How else could I reach the conclusion that I am strong at breeding.
Tracey
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1296 posts
Aug 08, 2009
9:59 AM
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Tony, Now we are in accord but the only answer for your stool is balance by extension. :)
Thom
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3523 posts
Aug 08, 2009
10:09 AM
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Tracey, the question then for you is this- Did you start out in rollers knowing what to do in all 3 areas? I doubt it. You learned over time how to achieve your objectives. Through, reading, talking, observing, doing.
It would be the rare individual indeed, who coming into the roller hobby, would know precisely what to do and how to reach roller goals without any previous experience or outside input. It is inherent in our experience that we will be deficient in some areas and stronger than others.
I think of Kobe Bryant, in his early professional days, he was thin and at times lacking the muscle of some of his opponents to do some things his "talent" desired to do.
After analyzing his weak points, he began bulking up. He is no longer a thin man among muscle bound opponents. Today, I believe he is able to play better and lead his team to championships because he "lengthened" the short leg on the stool. The talent was always there, he just need to lengthen the short leg.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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katyroller
500 posts
Aug 08, 2009
10:42 AM
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Starting out I didn't know squat and after a few years, I think I MIGHT be starting to get the hang of things. :)
My advice to anyone new asking the above question is that you have to be equally strong in all three areas to be successful. 1) If being a strong breeder were enough, you could buy the best stock available and win every fly just off their background. 2) If ability as a flier were enough, you could take a kit of culls and make them all fly good. 3) If you were weak at culling, it wouldn't make a difference because 1 & 2 above would negate your weakness.
Tracey
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3524 posts
Aug 08, 2009
12:36 PM
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Tracey, I think most would agree that it is a "given" that new people will not know squat about any of these three legs. Your advice to them regarding needing equal parts as being the desirable "state" is good, but beyond that, what would you tell them about how to go about it to reach that state of equilibrium?
Would they not have to quantify their current status before they could understand where they are weak and need to improve?
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Snake Doctor
GOLD MEMBER
422 posts
Aug 08, 2009
12:44 PM
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Shucks! I didn't know there were only 3 legs on the stool! LOL
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"Semper Fi"
SD
Roy
Georgia
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katyroller
503 posts
Aug 08, 2009
1:29 PM
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Tony,
The new fancier would need a mentor(s)to point them in the right directions, someone that understands the total picture. There are no quick tutorials or overnight success plans. To master all three areas takes time and alot of patience. I personally know of fanciers who are great in one or two areas but after many years with Rollers have not been able to master all three. I have personally heard fanciers tell a new fancier to breed as many young as possible each year, build teams from the best and cull the rest. I always felt that these fanciers were poor breeders and relied on the luck of percentages. Ever wonder what these fanciers do with their culls? They often sell them as good birds to folks who don't know any better.
Tracey
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