rollinfever
112 posts
Aug 14, 2009
8:12 AM
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Do you guys think that color matter in how the birds roll? Some say that color does matter in some families..
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J_Star
2083 posts
Aug 14, 2009
9:17 AM
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You must be laughing thinking you are about to start some shit. Don't you?
I am going to leave your post up for courtesy and allowing you to save face and remove it.
Jay
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Scott
2462 posts
Aug 14, 2009
9:27 AM
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Yes it most certainly can follow particular colors and patterns.
Jay, you are getting too itchy with that delete button!
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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J_Star
2085 posts
Aug 14, 2009
10:59 AM
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I hope I am not Scott. But pattern shows itself from time to time.
Can you elaborate further on what you posted.
"Yes it most certainly can follow particular colors and patterns."
Jay
Last Edited by on Aug 14, 2009 11:05 AM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3585 posts
Aug 14, 2009
11:29 AM
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Jay, trap sprung! LOL
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Tony Chavarria
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rollinfever
113 posts
Aug 14, 2009
12:30 PM
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uhh im serious..im not trying to start "shit"...maybe u are j_star..because i asked politely..
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3273 posts
Aug 14, 2009
12:34 PM
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See J now it can get ugly, lets give the guy the benefit of the doubt
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Ralph.
Life comes down to the choices you make, and then living with the results.
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3589 posts
Aug 14, 2009
1:23 PM
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rollin, in my family, the Ash Red tend to roll before the Blue. Of the Ash Red, the lavendars seem to develop earliest. But in the end, the red checks and red bars seem to dominate my lofts as far as breeders go.
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Tony Chavarria
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Scott
2468 posts
Aug 14, 2009
1:42 PM
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Roll, charactor tends to follow particular patterns and colors, the weaker the charactor the more the impulse to roll comes out, depending on how much roll impulse the bird carries.
As an example one pair I had some years ago threw awsome Rec. Reds in a fairly high percentage, here and there they would throw a Blue check, the blue checks could be culled out of the nest because they were stiff as boards.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Aug 14, 2009 1:44 PM
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roller heaven
81 posts
Aug 14, 2009
1:45 PM
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Tony do you fly your rollers in the world fly?
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3590 posts
Aug 14, 2009
1:54 PM
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roller heaven, if I think I have a team ready to compete, I will and have. But if I am not happy with my team, then I won't fly. I am not into competition as much as some guys, I prefer to breed toward the aerial standard as explained by Pensom in his book.
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Tony Chavarria
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ezeedad
1035 posts
Aug 14, 2009
1:58 PM
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Just to add a little spice into this conversation.. I will show part of the James Turner article..
There appear to be certain undeniable links between some color modifiers and factors (e.g. Recessive Red, Grizzle, Indigo, Andalusian) and quality in performance in the Birmingham Roller.
Like Jay Yandle and Joe Roe that have won major national and World Cup competitions with these birds in their kits, many other competitors are including rollers with color modifiers in their competition kits and winning at all levels.
James Turner’s contribution to the further understanding of the link between color and performance, as we attempt to fix certain desirable genetic traits for roll quality in our lofts, is equally undeniable.
Paul G
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rollinfever
114 posts
Aug 14, 2009
3:08 PM
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thanks tony thats all that i needed to know..i dont know why people would get so fuss up about it..
Last Edited by on Aug 14, 2009 3:08 PM
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yang501424
371 posts
Aug 14, 2009
5:28 PM
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rollingfever some people doesn't know that some of us are still newbie to this hobby and some of our question seems stupid to them because they have been in the hobby a long time.
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Good Game Loft
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Ty Coleman
666 posts
Aug 14, 2009
5:47 PM
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Scott and Tony pretty well answered your question in my opinion. Different family's have birds of stronger quallitys in particular colors.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2005 posts
Aug 15, 2009
7:45 PM
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rollin,
If we are talking sticky colors, and since there are only 3 colors that pigeons carry, it can often boil down to what colors are found in the key pigeons in the breeder loft. If at least 2 colors, ash red and blue are found in the breeder pairs, then ash red and blue will be found in their off-spring. If the blue birds perform better than the ash reds, then in that family, using those breeders, blue seems to be predominate in the better performers.
If in another family the better performers seem to be ash red, then ash red may be predominate in the better performers.
But then we can get into the factors that effect the colors, we have spread, grizzle, dilute, reduced, opal, indigo, etc. Also we have patterns that are thrown into the mix, check and bars for the most part, and all the different combinations from colors, factors and patterns.
In each family, it depends on what colors, patterns and factors are carried in the breeders and how they are expressed and how the "ro" gene lines up to produce the best birds from that particular family.
In also every case in each family there will be some indication as to what color the better birds will be, and that color will be directly tied to what colors are found in the breeders.
Good performing Rollers can be found in many colors and patterns but the predominate color across the USA birds I have seen seems to be blue, followed closely by ash red. The predominate patterns are checks followed by bars. And some of the more common factors are spread, recessive red, grizzle, bronze, etc. with a few indigo, opal, reduced, thrown in for good measure.
In some families, the best birds are blue checks. In some families the best birds are red checks or red bars or blue bars or black selfs or black white flights or andalusians or dom opals or lavenders or mottles or pepper heads.
The color on the feather is nothing but a pigment and may be an indicator in certain families to what colors perform the best. It all depends on what colors are present in the breeders in the family.
In my particular family , my best performers seem to all be indigo/andalusians, but then, that's what I have in the breeder pen.
Cliff
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rolleronnie
48 posts
Aug 16, 2009
3:22 AM
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The reds spin five percent faster!!
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Promoting The Birmingham Roller
The Greatest Aerial Acrobat!
Come Fly With Us!
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Colors101
54 posts
Aug 16, 2009
7:03 PM
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To tack on to Cliff's post,
A lot of top Roller lofts have Recessive Red, Recessive Yellow, Grizzle, and Mottle running in the veins of their birds. One should look at all the above as something as simple as a blanket or screen door. It's something that is present on the bird, but it's overlapping something that is true, pure, and sometimes indicative of one's family bloodline.
So when one says, "My Reds are the hottest or best performers", what are they really saying? Are they saying their Ash-Reds are doing well, or their Recessive Reds masking Blue Bars and Checks? This is where understanding one's birds and their genetic makeup is just as important to him or her, as well as the potential flyer acquiring birds from that particular stock.
I hear the word "character" and the term "mental" being offered towards the coversation of what makes a good roller. While I believe character is elemental, I believe it is something that can be developed over time, and is not something that is innate. In some families "character" can be determined earlier, as being bred from "characteristic" breeders encourages the probability of one raising more young from the selected breeders.
Operating under this premise, there can and always will be, strong characterstic traits following certain families of birds. It matters not if it's a Roller or a Fantail. Whatever the breeder is selecting for, the offspring will reflect the desired traits. That is, if the breeder is successful in isolating the desired traits, or in terms of the original question, color. If you only have Blues to work with, and the Grizzle factor is in your birds, and you choose to focus on well-performing Grizzles. Eventually, you'll have a higher percentage of Grizzles meeting your standard of performance over those that are non-Grizzles.
Thanks,
Colors
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
501 posts
Aug 17, 2009
6:06 AM
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Good post. I agree with all you said. Color is just another characteristic, they are all red, blue or brown with some modifier. Has little or nothing to do with the roll unless strong roll is the family characteristic.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
Last Edited by on Aug 17, 2009 6:36 AM
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Pumpkin Man
140 posts
Aug 19, 2009
1:36 PM
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Just be careful of making an assumption too quick when you start working a family of birds. Raise a couple hundred birds out of your foundation stock and make notes. Just casue one color might predominate one year may not hold true forever. Scientific proof comes out of much research and replication. If the first three recessive red you raise roll down don't give up on recessive red just keep breeding and making notes you need control but roll has to be there too. I don't get a lot of roll downs but I have had birds that rolled down in Blue check, red check, blue bar, recessive red, yellow grizzle, black, double factored grizzle (white). Feed can play a big part in this also.
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harrison
1194 posts
Aug 20, 2009
11:08 AM
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I must agree with what color 101 says.
Of course if your best breeders are Reds and the offspring from them are reds and also great rollers and so on then they are going to mask the other color birds that may be blue for instance.
I have found that in my loft reds and mealys are better than my other colors but thats only bcause my best breeders are reds and they are passing the color down the familey as well as the roll.
Next year this may change.
As I have been breeding out of a pair of mealy pides and they gave mealy pides last year.
Also the mealys i am breeding from come out of mealys.
But this year I got in the same nest out of them a BLUE GRIZZ and a LAVENDER.
Now my friend who I got my stock from as never in the 7 years of keeping his birds bread a grizzle out of this line of birds.
Also Last year the young from this pair come into the roll realy early on were as this year the lavender is only still doing little flips(LOST THE GRIZZ)
So It just goes to show that you carnt guarentee anything were it be color or the time they will roll if they roll at all (in your birds)
well thats just me saying what I have excperiencd
in my birds.
Harrison.
H.K.R ROLLER LOFT HULL UK.
The two (what i call)mealy red bars?
With there young blue grizz and lavender?
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2016 posts
Aug 20, 2009
12:40 PM
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harrison,
That bald-headed bird looks like reduced or qualmond, so the youngster could also be. The youngster cannot be grizzle if neither parent is, I don't believe.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Aug 20, 2009 12:42 PM
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harrison
1195 posts
Aug 20, 2009
1:10 PM
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Hi CLIFF,
The bold headed bird is one of the youngsters
And the grizz squashd up behind its dad.
This could be a fine example to people about hens getting treaded by other cocks during breeding if what you are saying about one of the pairents has to be a grizzle to beable to produce a grizzle.
I do have ONE cock grizz in my breeders pen so like I say if what you have stated is to be true then he must be the farther.
I did find it strange that these birds produced a grizz bcause in 7 years my friend has never bread a grizz out of his line of birds.
I have a grizz cock and a yellow hen that are diffrent blood but appart from them everything is the same blood.
Thank you for your comments there verry intresting and making me think about stoping open breeding in the futre.
Some better pictures.
the grizz
the lavender
the (WHAT I THOUGHT WERE PAIRENTS)
this is when they were in a cage breeding but the young passd away so put the pairents into open breeding.
And last but not least?
The may be dad.
THANK YOU CLIFF.
harrison
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gentle johnnie
70 posts
Aug 21, 2009
6:15 PM
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Harrison- Question is the dad a grizzle or tortshell i see three colors white red black or blue.
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Gentle Johnnie "Angels of the Sky Loft"
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darkhorse09
99 posts
Aug 22, 2009
4:05 AM
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Nice rollers harrison
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harrison
1201 posts
Aug 22, 2009
12:21 PM
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HI Johnie,
Good question.
Now you have me thinking,
I would have said grizzle/But now taking a better look at the colors I do notice a brown also.
I think this bird has to go bcause I Bread this bird and his dad turnd out no good(TO DEEP AND UNSTABLE)
Now I am finding the same problems with the cock aboves offspring.
Rolling to hecktick and not been able to stick with the kit bcause of this reason.
Shame he his a lovely bird but no room for error in my shed.
Thank you dark for your comments.
Nice talking to you guys once again.
Yours in roll harrison uk hull.
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