Mother lode lofts
1 post
Mar 28, 2004
5:33 PM
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There's two way to get the birds into the kitbox,one is the English system and the other is the use of a trap where the bird enters but can't come back out,the Engish system means no traps and you just simply open the door and with trapping seed (small seeds such as Millet).
I had an out of town judge here recently and he mentioned that he uses the English method and that it was the best way to go,and I might also add that many the top fliers uses this method,and as far as management goes it is the best system as the birds see "you" as the feed can and will help keep you from getting lazy,keep in mind that other than youngsters, kitbirds have no busisness sitting on top of the kitbox when the door or trap is open,if they are then you are over feeding and dont have a handle on them,the draw backs to flying english style is that a stray bird that got chased off or you suffer an overfly and as birds return one by one (hopefully)the following day while you at work and they must sit out all day while you are gone,the benifits are that it forces you to manage your team correctly,you overfeed and your going to have a long wait as the birds are still up or your going to be pulling your hair out as the team is sunning on the roof,you will learn real quick LOL plus you wont wake up in the morning to find a cat or anything else sitting on top a bunch of dead birds inside of the Kitbox.
Next you have the traps,the benifits are as I mentioned above as far as overflys,birds chased off ect. and thats about it for traps,generally traps won't teach a new flier anything about managing his birds and have a tendacy to make others lazy,such as kicking the birds out putting the feed in and walking away to take a nap and the scenerio that I mentioned above as far as unwelcome visiters in the kitbox happens way to often,now for how I do it,I have traps on all kitboxes,but I never just drop the landing board and walk off,the landing board is dropped once the kit is down and only then (landingboard is also the door to access the trap)thats when the birds are given some trapping seed,just enough to get them in is all,then they sit for 15-20 minutes,you do this for a couple of reasons one being so that the harder workers have time to regain themselfs and the other is so that they know that just because they land doesnt mean it's grub time automatic,they look at me as thier source of food and not the open trap.
Just my opinion
Last Edited by Mother lode lofts on Mar 28, 2004 5:39 PM
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glenn
4 posts
Mar 28, 2004
6:11 PM
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On the last kit cage I built I put in a trap.. I fly as they say english style, but if I have to leave they know how to get in thru the trap. Sometimes even if the door is open they will go thru the trap. So what not use both, that way if you any that flew off arorun away by a hawk they still can get in.
Glenn
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Mother Lode Lofts
Guest
Mar 28, 2004
6:32 PM
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Glenn thats pretty much what I was getting at,theres a reason that traps are on my own kitboxes,but generally when you see someone flying straight English they are forced keep a good handle on thier tean
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
49 posts
Mar 28, 2004
8:19 PM
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Good post Scott (MLL). I do much like Glenn posted. All of my kit boxes have traps and I teach the young birds first how to use them. But once on the wing, they come in through the open door, largely because I can get them in faster that way, but if one or two happen to say out, I can close the door and leave the trap open for them.
Brian
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Zinger
10 posts
Mar 29, 2004
5:59 AM
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Glenn, Thanks to this post.
"On the last kit cage I built I put in a trap.. I fly as they say english style, but if I have to leave they know how to get in thru the trap. Sometimes even if the door is open they will go thru the trap. So what not use both, that way if you any that flew off arorun away by a hawk they still can get in."
I'm now planning on having both, Makes so much sense, I like both worlds..lol.
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I can Roll when I Skydive so I know why they do it. It's great FUN.
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Siddiqir
20 posts
Mar 29, 2004
11:34 AM
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I believe it is good to have both options.
Some time if one or two birds are not in and you need to do some other thing like feeding other kit or re-fill water you can have trapper open so they can get in and others would not come out.
On the other hand with door open you have to be with birds all the time, occasionally while you feeding and they looking for more feed but you do not want to feed them more and lock them up, one or two may fly out and sit on kit box roof then it would be the little difficult to get them in
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Mongrel Lofts
Guest
Apr 04, 2004
2:07 PM
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Hey Mother Load,
I like the idea of using both English and traps.. I have a question for you, just because this happened to me. You fly your kit off. So the next day, you go to work, but leave your trap open, to get any birds that might come back.. When you get home, you have a cat in the kit pen and what you did have left, won't be coming back no moe no moe either! You can get away with traps, for many years, maybe for ever? The one time, you forget to block them off, or you are waiting to get a bird back, and it cost you 2 years of work.. You will cuss the day, you ever heard of a trap door... Out the door, and back in the door. Its the Way I prefer. I do prefer my competition use traps though! Grin!
Mongrel Lofts
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Mother Lode Lofts
Guest
Apr 04, 2004
3:17 PM
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Mongral I "have" suffered the wrath of a cat do to a trap and it aint fun,you may want to check out the "Cats" topic
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Anonymous
Guest
Apr 28, 2004
1:57 PM
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I am new to pigeons and I am faced with ' how do you train for the -
- trap
- starting with unflown birds what are the steps
I really need help with these issues.
I assume you start with new young birds each season, correct?
Could you briefly outline the steps
Please
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Dry Creek lofts
1 post
May 12, 2004
1:11 PM
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Hey Mother load one thing you did not mention was the stall trap cats do not seem to like the tight area they need to go through to enter the barbs. I have had stall traps for years and have never had a cat in my race loft yet now that I have said that tomorrow I will have one in my loft.lol
I am a long time racing pigeon breeder and am building a roller loft now. I am interested in getting so rollers and am in your area. If you dont mind what is your e-mail add?
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Siddiqir
50 posts
May 13, 2004
9:11 AM
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More on trappers, which trapper is good to use bobs or funnel. Look at this picture "Funnel Trapper"
The problem with bobs trapper is that birds can see inside the kit box and if the feed tray is not there and I am standing outside as a feed source they would not trap in and look at me to get feed. With the funnel trapper they may not have apporunity to look if tray is there or not (I may be wrong as I have not used the funnel trapper) and get trapped which will eliminate the feeding little amount of small seeds for trapping purpose
If I do not want to feed small seeds like millet and to get them in after fly would funnel trapper helpful in that scenario?
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Birmingham Rollers
Last Edited by Siddiqir on May 13, 2004 9:12 AM
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ChrisG
2 posts
Apr 23, 2006
12:26 PM
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I'm a real NEWBY at this. I have 4 baldhead rollers, a new loft, a Foy's and a Siegel's catalog. Which trap should I order, and once I get it installed, HOW DO I TRAIN MY BIRDS TO USE IT?????
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rust never sleeps
54 posts
Apr 23, 2006
2:25 PM
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 I use the open door method. 4 years ago i built a new loft that has 4 built in kit boxes that holds 26 each and one outside kit box that holds 35 youngsters for training. the open door system that i practice now "english" method has made me a better trainer.Picture on the right side is were the kit's boxes are at in the inside.
Last Edited by rust never sleeps on Apr 23, 2006 3:36 PM
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Velo99
388 posts
Apr 23, 2006
7:14 PM
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Chris G
Drop back about 10 pages and start reading. We cover a lot of material in here. Sometimes it is redundant and sometimes it is better warmed over. I feel most of your questions will be answered in ten pages, maybe twelve.
YITS
v99
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
490 posts
Apr 23, 2006
8:55 PM
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Keep in mind, the "true" English method isn't really what many of us practice. They once, and I am sure still do, have their kit boxes inside of a loft, the birds come in through the main door like the one that enters your loft room, then they go inside their boxes via the open door. We have one Englishmen in our club who built his kit boxes this way. Its pretty cool to see in person, especially when he releases them and they come flying out of this room like if you left your front door open...lol.
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nicksiders
543 posts
Apr 23, 2006
9:19 PM
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I have both.....I didn't know it until now, but I do and I use both depending what I am doing and/or going.
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J_Star
416 posts
Apr 24, 2006
4:39 AM
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I have both. But I use the English style all the times. Traps comes in handy sometimes. But if a bird decide not to come in on time, I will close the traps overnight and the bird will be on his own until the next day after I get back from work. If he continues that behavior, he becomes history.
Jay
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Mount Airy Lofts
198 posts
Apr 24, 2006
6:05 AM
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Scott C.,
I fly them out of the door and trap them in with the door wide open. Altho, I have also trainned them to trap thru my trap door. I don't train my birds how to trap thru the trap door until they have reach 5 months.
My trap door is just big enough for the average roller. There are just 2 bobs used. Any cat brave enough to trap into that is a dead cat. So far, I have not had any trouble with other creatures crawling into the kit box thru the trap door. I have left it open many times waiting for lost birds to return. If not, then when or if they do return, they are as good as dead as the dam coopers or owl will surely have their way with a worn out bird.
Thor
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Shaun
355 posts
Apr 24, 2006
6:20 AM
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Well said, Jay. I'm the same. There's often one bird (usually a youngster) which won't come in. Worse still, if you open the door to try and get that one in, another will often fly out. So, now if they do that, they might have to stay out all night. Actually, for anyone that has "Winners with Spinners", you'll see what is described as a 'Goss trap'. For reasons I won't bore you with, it's essentially a contraption for those with the open door approach, who need the backup of a trap for the odd bird which won't come in when you want it to. I've just built one and am getting my latest youngsters used to it.
Shaun
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maxspin
30 posts
Apr 24, 2006
9:18 AM
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Brian,
Sounds like I built a classic English loft. I didn't even know it when I built it. LOL
I have 4 kitboxes hung on the outside of my loft. I feed the birds on the floor then put them away in their box.
Only difference is that I built a trap for the birds to enter the loft through. (best of both worlds).
Keith
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siddiqir
207 posts
Apr 24, 2006
9:40 AM
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Open door thing work for me. I do not open door until all birds land on kitbox's roof. They are trained well... after landing they look at me and the impressionI I get is open the door we would like to go in and eat.
Last Edited by siddiqir on Apr 24, 2006 9:43 AM
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Mount Airy Lofts
200 posts
Apr 24, 2006
9:24 PM
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Sid,
What happens if you have the itch to fly them on the worst of days... take for example, a more then windy day... and one or two birds didn't make it back with the main group. If for some reason, you had to run. What have you done in the past on such ocassions?
I know I have had birds that went MIA for acouple of hours after an hawk attack (chase) or on those windier days or from an over fly. These suchs birds usually find their way back late in the evening or return some time during the night to early morning. In the past, I have just wait till I saw the bird on the roof. Altho after seeing scattered feathers on the lawn more then I care to have experienced in the past, I have been inclined to leave the trap door open for atleast 3 days just incase the bird or birds return. It was clear that the coopers/owl (if at night) had been dining out on these such birds in the past. Of course, if it was a bird I could care less about losing then no such measures would be taken. In rollers, this barely happens. Usually if a bird doesn't return with the main group, it is usually one of the better to best birds in the lot.
Thor
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merced guy
55 posts
Apr 24, 2006
10:30 PM
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The subject on cats. Man What KGB was discribing in his post was what happened to me last year. I was discurage after loosing so many birds. I lost kit birds, breeders, fosters--msut have been about 30 something birds. A pack of wild cats ( I used to live out in the country) Was able to kill 4 or five of them, but I wasn't pround of it. I don't like killing animals unless if its for food. It was my falt too for having such poor loft set up and kit boxes being a rookie and all, although a good lesson indeed. thought i share something with you all since we are on the subject.
thong
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Sourland
66 posts
Apr 25, 2006
12:22 PM
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Thong, no need to feel guilty. Feral or free ranging cats are the greatest killers of birds and wildlife. Many times they just kill for the thrill of it. They are genetically programed to do this. This does not make me a cat hater. We share our house with a 17 year old cat, but she is not allowed outside. The mice and whatever she catches inside deserve it-they have invaded her territory. (Actually this cat shares HER house with us.
Geo.
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