Pumpkin Man
143 posts
Aug 25, 2009
5:16 AM
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For those using it on their birds. What's the rate and what's the effect on your birds? I read it had a sedative affect and relaxed muscles in people. How far out would you use it before a comp fly.
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J_Star
2112 posts
Aug 25, 2009
8:52 AM
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No Paul. Epsom Salt is used to be given to the birds in the drinking water for a very short period of time to purge them. Purging them means like clean them out. They become edgy and light which give them an edge for performance.
Jay
Last Edited by on Aug 25, 2009 8:53 AM
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Pumpkin Man
144 posts
Aug 25, 2009
10:12 AM
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Jay,
How much do you put in the drinking water, and is it just for one day?
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J_Star
2113 posts
Aug 25, 2009
10:25 AM
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Sorry. I've never used it. It is for one day and avoid to give it to them on hot day. It causes the birds to overdose. I know Paul F. used it in the past and he might help you.
Jay
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JBow
90 posts
Aug 25, 2009
11:16 AM
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Pumkin man Epsom salts taken oraly is a laxative. If your stopped up take two teaspoons in warm water let it desolve and drink it. Chase it with plain water and keep near a toilet. lol It works great. Now for the birds i used to give them a dose once a month. Put one table spoon to a gallon of water for one day. I don't use it at all for birds any more. Jim Bowen
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2017 posts
Aug 25, 2009
12:01 PM
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I know of NO roller pigeon performance enhancing drugs that work reliably or that I would consider ethical. I also know of NO other sport that allows or encourages any performing enhancing drugs. Since there are no banned substances, we are free to do as we please in the roller hobby.
Conditioning our birds, starting a month or so before a competition, through use of wormers, Epsom salts, etc. has its proper place. A regimen of a worming medication, followed by an Epsom Salt laxative to expell the worms, followed by an antibiotic to prevent access to the gut wall by harmfull bacteria, followed by a vitamin/Probios boost to restore the beneficial bacterial slime on the gut wall to prevent harmful bacteria from gaining access to the bloodstream through the wounds left by the worms is just good loft management, at least annually, whether one competes or not. Epsom Salts.....used intentionally to stress the birds and weaken their resisitance to roll just prior to a competition........... ranks right up there with steroids in baseball. JMHO! The choice is ours as a hobby. I hope we all choose wisely.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Aug 25, 2009 12:02 PM
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3313 posts
Aug 25, 2009
12:39 PM
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I use epsom salt in my birds bath all the time.especially for relaxing after a hard fly or moult.I see no difference in performance maybe because they already had a drink of their regular water I'm there watching them when bathing I never see them take a gulp and if they did no big deal that I see..I know it relaxes my muscles so it must do the same for them.
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Ralph.
Life comes down to the choices you make, and then living with the results.
Last Edited by on Aug 25, 2009 1:06 PM
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Pumpkin Man
145 posts
Aug 25, 2009
1:05 PM
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Cliff,
I wasn't aware of the intentional effect you mentioned until today. I thought it was just to clean them out. It really doesn't seem like a big issue to me though. I really don't think you can mess with them too much without it being detrimental to your fly anyway. How will you be prepping yours Cliff? Laughing gas, bright lights, mouth wash, teeth whitener? Sorry I couldn't resist.
-Just having fun.
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donnie james
663 posts
Aug 25, 2009
3:02 PM
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i use to use epsom salt back in the '90's it to help my birds to roll a little better and help them thought the molt better and it seem to me my birds was more healther when i epsom salt on them and i have use epsom salt in the last 10 years and i can see a big differnce in my birds but on the other hand i kept 1 of my family of birds and got another family and i been thinking to start up again to use spom salt again........... maybe it just me whe way li look at the birds when i was younger...............donny james
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fhtfire
2053 posts
Aug 25, 2009
3:07 PM
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Hey all....I have been using Epsom salt for year with the birds......but only has a comp prep....I really dont think it makes the birds roll any better but it does make them feel better.....I use it like Cliff says...after worming.....and only for a short period of time.....all it does is make the birds fell better.(if they had something)....but if they did not and were pretty clean...no benefit.....and it will NOT do anything to jack up your birds before a fly.....to make them worse or better.....
Epsom salt is ONE of many things you do for a comp prep...or just plain maintenance for non comp guys....
Tablespoon per gallon....and that is it.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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T-town-rollers
88 posts
Aug 25, 2009
8:50 PM
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What about Borax Laundry additive { not the soap}. A breeder of homers told me he has used it for 50 yrs. He says it will get rid of lice and mites. He was a roller man for years and then he got into racing homers and show rollers. He is also a pigeon and rabbit show judge. So I know he knows what he is talking about. You use 1/4 cup to a bath pan of water. I've tryed it and my birds bathed in it. He said to use it about once or twice a month.
Lee- T-town-rollers
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2018 posts
Aug 26, 2009
6:31 AM
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The use of Epson salts can have a deleterious effect of the birds electrolytes. I have heard of birds succumbing to the lethal effects of Epson salts when used improperly. Beware of the old adage, if a little is good then more is better.
When it comes to "enhancing performance", I have heard of men who toss a lit firecracker into the kit box; then we have other more interesting ideas like, rubber snakes, balloons, weed eating around the box just before release, etc. all unnecessary if the birds are properly bred, trained, exercised and fed.
Stick with the same things that help great athletes prepare for their sport. Exercise, dietary requirements , good health and proper rest. Leave the Voodoo and the drugs to the lower elements of blood sport.
Who wants to bring in our kids to a dirty sport?
Cliff
PS. I differentiate between bath water and drinking water, though I am aware that they may drink their bath water so we have to be careful what we put in it for feather care. A couple tablespoons of Borax in the bath water is sometimes used in the place of commercial bath salts to help eliminate lice & mites, to soften the feathers, etc. as a part of good hygiene and to keep them in good condition; definitely a positive place in a competition prep and regular maintenance.
Last Edited by on Aug 26, 2009 6:37 AM
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wishiwon2
206 posts
Aug 26, 2009
2:32 PM
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Epsom salts are NOT a performance enhancing additive or drug. Epsom does work as a laxitive when taken orally, it will pull down the birds condition because of that. It does have its place in maitaining pigeon health.
It also has a use in prepping a team for comepetition. Because of the effect of reducing or pulling down the condition of a bird. If a flyer has overconditioned a team by too much feed or too much fly time, Epsom salts can be used as a short term/fast acting reduction to pull condition off from a team of rollers. Old bird teams (2yrs and older) are especially prone to becoming 'stale', because they are easily overconditioned. It takes less feed and less fly time to maintain quality performance in these age-class birds. Epsom salts may be an effective way to over-come mismanagement of old bird teams.
I dont recomend their usage. The best thing is to learn your birds and manage more wisely. I advise caution in using them on young birds. Young birds are already somewhat unpredictable and a sudden change of conditioning may cause otherwise trustworthy birds to exhibit problem behavior.
I however, dont believe there ought to be any condescension or restrictive measures towards somebody who uses them for prepping a team. If we start thinking that way, where would it stop? Should we ban those who use vitamins/minerals? or redcell? or what about those flyers who feed odd types of grain to attempt to enhance a team? If you are relying on rubber snakes, flying flags or Epsom salts ... gimickry ... to get the best from them, then I believe the outcomes will be inconsistent and eventually end in disappointment. Try and learn what the birds need to work their best, then make adjustments to fit their circumstances as necessary.
I do use and recommend using BORAX as a bath additive. It will prevent feather lice and other external parasites and it adds a luster to the feathers. Caution: use BORAX the mule team stuff, not BORAXO, which can harm your birds if they drink it.
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Jon
If it were easy, everybody would do it
Last Edited by on Aug 26, 2009 2:41 PM
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fhtfire
2057 posts
Aug 26, 2009
3:27 PM
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Good Post Jon!!
I could not have said it better for myself....I do use it for comp prep myself...but it is one of the first things I do before the actually comp training....but you are right on all accounts....
rock and ROLL
Paul
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winwardrollers
289 posts
Aug 26, 2009
7:15 PM
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Jon
Good post...it can break down a stiff old bird team..like you stated mismanagement in the first place in the reason you would be using it...
bwinward
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macsrollers
175 posts
Aug 26, 2009
9:19 PM
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Some use wormers, auromiyacin, electrolites, red blood cells, etc. as part of their regiment to "prepping" their teams for competition. Espom salts are another method used and and old time method of purging birds before a competition. I haven't done any of these but have used Pigeon Builder in their water the day before the fly. I guess it is up to the person whether they feel they need to use these types of medications or additives to bring out the best in their birds. Some of the most consistent top fliers tell me it is more about having your birds in peak performing condition on fly day rather then having to try to break them down some the day or so before. To each their own on this subject. I'll use my personal opinion for my own flying methods. Enjoy your next fly! Don M. LVRC
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winwardrollers
290 posts
Aug 27, 2009
6:45 AM
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Don
What is your reasoning for..giving your birds.. Pigeon Builder in water before the fly? What does it do for your birds that make it worth giving it?...What condition are your birds in when you give it? ..Do you give it to them everytime before a fly? What do you rollers act when you don't give it to them when they are in the same condition?
bwinward
Pumpkin Man
You can tell when the epsom salt has worked you will have a mess in you loft..bird dropping every where..couple of days to a day and a half out for timing.. Light doses of it will do the job..your just making the water salty.. it weaken your birds..if that is what you need..birds with the runs.
bwinward
Last Edited by on Aug 27, 2009 6:55 AM
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2020 posts
Aug 27, 2009
7:56 AM
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Don
That is the exact message I was trying to put into words. There is no pigeon police, no banned substances. WE have only our own good sense and moral judgements to guide us.
The truth of the matter is , There are NO SHORT CUTS. Each of us has choices to make as to how we manage our birds. It is not for me to say what methods are morally good or bad. We all know right from wrong.
The question is not whether any chemical is good or bad, it is the intentions of the flyer. Is he using the chemical as it is intended to be used? Trying to upset the delicate electrolytes in a kit to try to get them to perform better is not what Epsom salts is used for.....in my opinion. If your kit is full of packed feces, dose 'em! If you are trying to manipulate a kit through means of using something not for its intended use and expressly to stimulate a kit.......the choices you make will reflect back on you as a competitor.
Certain grains, vitamins, rest, conditioning, grit are all part of positive kit prep. Worming birds and Epsom salts are also a positive way use to rid worms but the question is timing and intention, I guess
As always....To each his own....
Cliff
Last Edited by on Aug 27, 2009 7:57 AM
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J_Star
2121 posts
Aug 27, 2009
10:59 AM
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To me...a good solid performing kit is managed by feed not by tricks.
Jay
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