rookie from ct
GOLD MEMBER
122 posts
Aug 26, 2009
7:20 AM
|
I feeding my kit birds pellets now and haveing a hard time getting the right amount I don't know if I am feeding too much or if they just want to fly longer with there new feathers but last night they flew for 2 hours so I cut way back on there food, didn't seem like enought for 24 birds one tablespoon each. Dennis
|
J_Star
2116 posts
Aug 26, 2009
8:06 AM
|
Don't matter how much feed...let the flight time dectate how much feed to give. Rollers are very good beggers and they eat all you can give them so let the flight time tell you how much to give and you will do ok.
Jay
|
harrison
1221 posts
Aug 26, 2009
12:10 PM
|
Hi rookie.
I have never come across the pellets that you guys use.
The store that I get my feed from Has a verry big section that is just about pigeons.
God knows how many diffrent kinds of mix they have but still I have never seen pellets/or heard of pellets.
From what I have read on this forum guys mainly use pellets during the breeding season.
I am (at the moment) mixing 2.5 kilos of bread and whean with 2.5 kilos of depuritive.
Bread and whean is the big stuff like peas/beans/ then also has wheat/barley ect..
And the depuritive is a mixture of wheat/barley/and a bit of red dairey/white dairey ect....
So they are getting alot of wheat and barley but also some peas and beans.
Last year I was just using depuritive by itself and found that it was going straigt througth the birds digestive system and this was causing a few problems.
I was advised to mix depuritive with bread and whean and since doing this have found that the birds are a nice waigth and at the same time flying the time I want them to.
I have for the last week been feeding them a few hand fulls of RED DAIREY and found that the birds fly at a nice hieght and 30 mins no problem.
They do have quiet abit of waight on them but
Once they reach a year old I will reduce the bread and whean to cut the size of them down.
Any questions or advice feedback would be great.
Harrison
H.K.R ROLLER LOFT HULL UK.
|
steve49
204 posts
Aug 26, 2009
12:34 PM
|
hey Harrison, are you referring to Depure brand Immunity when you say "depuritive"? a feed store that i use has the Depure line of feed, and its imported from Europe. it has a few different colored pellets mixed in along with wheat, barley, peas etc
----------
Steve in Blue Point, NY
|
JDA
GOLD MEMBER
441 posts
Aug 26, 2009
3:57 PM
|
Dennis...Purina Nutria Blend Green? Is that what you are feeding?If so and you are feeding 1 table spoon per bird and they are still hungry,try putting 12 more table spoon and try that.That should be enough.I feel there craw and it is wadded up solid.They will just do fine and you will like the results.I can,t speak for any other brand of pellets.JDA
Last Edited by on Aug 26, 2009 3:59 PM
|
fhtfire
2058 posts
Aug 26, 2009
3:59 PM
|
I use pellets for my kit birds and have been doing it since Early 06....but the key is to cut the pellets with grain......even my breeders get the pellets cut....I am using 28% pellets (Low Sodium)....My breeders are cut one part pellets...one part wheat and one part milo....and every two times doing that..I add one part sauflower......that is for my breeders.
My kit birds get 5 parts 50/50 wheat milo to 1.5 parts pellets to one part sauflower....I found straight pellets for kit birds was not good....They flew to long...and started getting fat....but once you cut them..they are fine....Pellets have lots of vitamins and minerals added to them.
I have found that when I switched to pellets I had more control and consistency in the birds.....here is my thoughts....Like Scott says..pellets desolve fast....but they are loaded with the good stuff....unlike regular hard seeds that take longer to digest and breakdown.....I feel that with the pellets they get the shot of energy....and it is stored during rest.....and when you open the door they are empty...totally...not just the crop but the gizzard too...with grain....the crop may be empty...but I still think the body is breaking down the hard seeds....based on how much grit you give you kit birds or when....will determine how efficient the birds are with digesting hard seed....since most rarley give grit to kit birds on a consistant basis..(I cant figure out why some do that).....the break down of the seeds in not consistant....with pellets...grit is not to much of a factor.....anyway....I have measured water consumption and it there is no difference that I have found feeding grain vs. pellets...as long as the pellets are cut...so to make a short story long...I am convinced....that the pellets break down...they get more good stuff...and the birds are more consistant....that is just what I have noticed...I did ALOT of trial and error on finding the right mixture....
I do feed the hard grains to everything during the winter...no more pellets....during the winter they need the slow continuous digestion of the hard grains to keep warm.
As far as grit...never understood why we keep it from the kit birds...they NEED grit to breakdown the grain....I always throw a handfull on my loft roof...and the birds will land and get some grit before they trap....
My young kit birds get the pellet mix all the time until they come into the roll...the older birds get the pellet mix only after they fly....on rest days they get wheat milo...or mix if needed
I feel happy healthy birds fly better....
rock and ROLL
Paul
|
JDA
GOLD MEMBER
442 posts
Aug 26, 2009
4:32 PM
|
My birds are kitting tight and flying time for comp flys. When the coops are leaving them alone.But yes they have been fed Purina Nutria Blend Green and I feed 24 table spoon for 16 birds kit.JDA
|
PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3322 posts
Aug 26, 2009
6:45 PM
|
Good point Paul ,my birds get the grit almost every day the young birds love it.I just pull it out when I feel its time to ..but like you stated they need grit to break down the feed..grit, feed,vitamins and the flag are all tools that need to be learn to use ..in order to get the best out of your birds .
----------
Ralph.
Life comes down to the choices you make, and then living with the results.
|
rookie from ct
GOLD MEMBER
123 posts
Aug 27, 2009
5:13 AM
|
Thanks JDA it is purina green that I am feeding (smaller than peas) And when I was switching over they just picked out the grain and left the pellets but now they eat it just fine I will have to play with the amount Dennis
Last Edited by on Sep 04, 2009 11:01 AM
|
JDA
GOLD MEMBER
443 posts
Aug 27, 2009
6:43 AM
|
rookie from ct...Your welcome, glad they are working for you.JDA
|
rookie from ct
GOLD MEMBER
124 posts
Aug 27, 2009
8:43 AM
|
Yes harrison they are machine pressed they make them for all livestock feed all about the same size but the purina makes the pigeon pellets small and round not like rabbit,chicken,turkey,pig, and so on but some people feed there pigeons all of the above mabey not the rabbit I feed my chickens chicken food and my rabbits rabbit food and my pigeons pigeon food all in pellet form Dennis
|
harrison
1224 posts
Aug 27, 2009
10:25 AM
|
I would love to beable to get my hands on some and try them out.
Thank you DENNIS.
harrison hull uk.
|
harrison
1225 posts
Aug 27, 2009
10:28 AM
|
What do they actualy do to make them?
Do they squash all the seeds up/blend them and then press them making the pellets?????
harrison.
|
J_Star
2119 posts
Aug 27, 2009
10:48 AM
|
Harrison, try the chicken layer pallets. You lads should have them in UK.
Jay
|
harrison
1226 posts
Aug 28, 2009
2:53 AM
|
Thank you Jay.
Harrison
|
rookie from ct
GOLD MEMBER
128 posts
Sep 02, 2009
6:37 AM
|
JDA are you feeding the pellets twice per day or what I give them a heaping and a half tablespoon. each and they are begging for more if they hear me near the kit box they jump down looking for more Dennis
|
JDA
GOLD MEMBER
457 posts
Sep 02, 2009
9:37 AM
|
Dennis....After they trap I feed them 21 table spoons for the kit of 14 fliers.There craws all feel full and they will all keep eating if they could,but they have enough for the next morning they fly for 1/2 hour land and hit the traps.And yes my birds do the same thing if I walk by the kit pen.JDA
|
JDA
GOLD MEMBER
458 posts
Sep 02, 2009
9:53 AM
|
Dennis... One thing I do is count the table spoons into a empty 15oz can,mark it with some tape, pour it into a 1lb coffee can to shake and feed them. That way I can get it ready fast.JDA
|
rookie from ct
GOLD MEMBER
129 posts
Sep 04, 2009
7:32 AM
|
JDA I have two kits of young birds 24 in the male box and 10 in the female box I cant seem to get the males to fly for more than 5 minuets any more the last 3 nights I gave them over 2 tbs each they just want to come in and eat the hen's on the other hand are doing just fine with 1&1/2 tbs of purina green pellets could it be just a cock thing shure has me scraching my head. Dennis
|
Scott
2503 posts
Sep 04, 2009
7:55 AM
|
Dennis, quantity is "allways" detemined by conditions,family,weather ect. NO one can tell you how much your birds need, only you can.
You have to learn your birds, but first and formost you have to quit listening to others as only you yourself can determine this.
I have read stuff on this site (and others) on feed and quanity that would kill any pigeon given time, also I wouldn't be sold so quickly on pellets for your kitbirds,there is a reason your top flyers don't use them,although they are great for the breeders.
Also it is worth noting that Paul uses it in place of peas (protien) which could be worth playing with as it digests much quicker than peas, this is a compltly different senerio.
----------
Scott Campbell
"It is about..moderated.. fortitude !! "
Last Edited by on Sep 04, 2009 1:15 PM
|
JDA
GOLD MEMBER
472 posts
Sep 04, 2009
8:05 AM
|
Dennis ... feed them up and drop as needed for your cock birds, it will be try and see till you get it.You could have one that is keeping them down.Is it the same bird hitting the roof first?JDA
Last Edited by on Sep 04, 2009 8:06 AM
|
rookie from ct
GOLD MEMBER
131 posts
Sep 04, 2009
9:40 AM
|
Thanks Scott and JDA I say that I would need more patience with them and I am determined to get it right but sometimes it gets frustration when these little birds seem to get attitudes with the hand that feeds them Dennis
|
JDA
GOLD MEMBER
473 posts
Sep 04, 2009
10:01 AM
|
Dennis...That,s what makes this hobby such a challenge lol.JDA
|
Scott
2505 posts
Sep 04, 2009
10:20 AM
|
Dennis, along JDs line, every season I will get a kit or two that wants to land early, I flag them back up and many times they will do another 20-30 min , it is just a phase they go through.
If they don't do it then I know that they are hungry, don't forget that heat will put them down also, on this situation I wait until they quit panting and then push them back up.
Keep in mind that much of this just comes in time by learning your birds,let common sense quide you.
----------
Scott Campbell
"It is about..moderated.. fortitude !! "
Last Edited by on Sep 04, 2009 1:16 PM
|
winwardrollers
297 posts
Sep 05, 2009
11:04 AM
|
This year I have feed pellets to the kit birds at about 1/3 pellet to wheat and have found that the birds stay health, fly lower, but don't have the snap in the roll like a pea feed bird has.
Bwinward
|
PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3365 posts
Sep 05, 2009
11:16 AM
|
Good post Scott especially #2505...Scott I think its about time to change your memo somebody dosen't like that one .....
----------
Ralph.
Life comes down to the choices you make, and then living with the results.
|
Scott
2514 posts
Sep 05, 2009
6:09 PM
|
Brad, is flying lower a good thing for developing young birds ? not that you want them high by any means.
Do you think they are more sluggish on a whole ?
----------
Scott Campbell
"It is about ? fortitude !! "
Last Edited by on Sep 05, 2009 6:29 PM
|
winwardrollers
299 posts
Sep 05, 2009
6:47 PM
|
Scott
I personally like the young birds to get up in the air high enough that they are safe rolling..young birds are dumb...Had a super good young bird roll over the peak of my house a few weeks ago...He was rolling hard enough that..it was all over by the time he bounced off the roof on to the ground.
I watch a guys birds fly that lives near me who has har a hard time keeping birds low...he started feeding some pellets and his birds have stayed lower...I think simply because the birds stay fit better and don't lighten up so fast on a lean diet...You can also use pellets to take the meat off birds by feeding straight pellets and fly hard because pellets pass through them so quickly...the birds get soft on pellets..meaning to the hand when you feel them.
Yes, Scott I do think the birds are more sluggish as a whole..I like whole grains..but there is definately a use for pellets for kit prep...if time is a factor.. I like what just a small amont of Peas will do to a kit that has been on whole grains the best.
Bwinward
Last Edited by on Sep 05, 2009 6:48 PM
|
winwardrollers
300 posts
Sep 07, 2009
6:23 AM
|
I have use three differant pellets with about the same protein content and have found that the differance is mainly how the pellet holds together and the size of the pellet....
Sorry to get off your original post...If one tablespoon is enough pellets...I would not feed straight pellets in the first place is what I was getting at...no matter what the brand is..
bwinward
Last Edited by on Sep 07, 2009 6:24 AM
|
JDA
GOLD MEMBER
480 posts
Sep 07, 2009
6:56 AM
|
winwardrollers... of the three different pellets, were any Purina Nutria Blend Green or Gold? If not your talking a different ball game.Look them up Thanks JDA
|
JMUrbon
746 posts
Sep 07, 2009
2:42 PM
|
I have tried all of the different makes and brands of pellets at one time or another and havent found anything good with them when it comes to kit birds. If you can deal with the mess they are wonderful for the breeders but I personally have never witnessed a top quality kit that was on straight pellets. I dont really know why a beginner flyer would want to start with pellets. 99% of your top flyers in the country and around the world are flying kit birds with some sort of grain mix. Start there and master that first. I realize there are guys that do fly with pellets but very few that fly will feed straight pellets.
----------
J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
|
JDA
GOLD MEMBER
481 posts
Sep 07, 2009
7:56 PM
|
Joe...were any Purina Nutria Blend Green or Gold? If not your talking a different ball game.Look them up Thanks JDA
|
Scott
2539 posts
Sep 08, 2009
11:34 AM
|
Brad, of coarse they can be used as another tool, my old birds have been on them a month to help them through the molt (mot flying), they are a good building tool also.
One thing I will play with this coming year is playing with it as blow through protien in combination of grains on the last few days of set up.
JD, I used the purina quite a few years ago, I found the sodium high which affects the birds, I then found better pellets suited for our purpose, one being the Nutrina 16 0/0, another that I'm using now is the Swanson 16 0/0 , these give me the same droppings as grain fed, but then maybe the Purina is better now, I don't know.
One thing about pellets is they are usualy high in corn, not a great thing for Rollers, also worth noting is the green type pellets are Alfalfa based while the tan ones are grain based, what holds the pellets together is called the binding agent, pesonly I like a looser type pellet with a light binder, normaly the heavy bound pellets can be too long as they don't break up easy, but then the real loose ones with little binder can get dusty, Nutrina used to be like this (havn't used for a while), the Swansons are about right.
----------
Scott Campbell
"It is about testicle fortitude !! "
|
JMUrbon
749 posts
Sep 08, 2009
8:07 PM
|
Joe to answer your question, Yes I have used the gold the green and also used the swansons pellets Scott mentioned. I like the results in the stock loft but not the mess. I dont feel there was any comparison to a grain mix for my birds. Yours may react better to them but like I stated in my previous post. I have never witnessed a top quality kit that was on straight pellets of any sort. I would surely welcome you changing my opinion of them but it wont happen on this board. It will have to happen with me under them. Joe
----------
J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
Last Edited by on Sep 08, 2009 8:09 PM
|
Windjammer Loft
938 posts
Sep 09, 2009
4:07 AM
|
The pellets are a good sourse of all that is needed for your birds. I think they are another "good" tool and one of "many" to use for better health. But, I don't think they are the save all. To each his own.
Fly High and Roll On
Paul
|
J_Star
2149 posts
Sep 09, 2009
6:35 AM
|
The kit birds will react to each grain differently. Once you know the strengths and the weaknesses of your kit birds, you can mask their weaknesses and enhance their strengths with a combination of grains. That is not as simple as it sounds due to the fact of how much of each grain to use and when at feeding time and when to start cutting back on a certain grain when the birds achieved what you are trying to do so that the achievements can be maintained for an extended period of time. I can assure you that the feeding from week to week will change and is different due to fact that their bodies becoming stimulated on the effect of some grains and due to the weather environment. Observation while flying is the only way to give you a good indicator of how and when to adjust to keep the duration, heights, pattern and work rate of the flight at a top notch for extended period of time. There are no one set of feeding method that works, rather, it is a combination of things. Be vigilant and analytical minded to be able to dissect their flight time frame by frame and able to work and correct one issue at a time.
Jay
|
rookie from ct
GOLD MEMBER
135 posts
Sep 09, 2009
7:32 AM
|
Thanks everyone for your thoughts my two kit's have been on the purina nutria blend green(18o/o protein)for 3weeks now and they are doing much better had to play with the amount's for a while they are 4 mo. old and flying 45min.per day and are starting there rolls I have them seperated males and females and the girls are doing much better than the boy.I cant find milo or wheat,so I tried the pellets but i do give them a little safflower twice a week on bath days I am a back yard flyer being just a rookie they are pleasing me and my boys (sons). Dennis
|
JDA
GOLD MEMBER
486 posts
Sep 09, 2009
7:42 AM
|
Dennis.. Glad I could help, Keep them flying they will just get better for you. I have to shut down for now due to a falcon yesterday.Yours in the sport JDA
Last Edited by on Sep 09, 2009 7:50 AM
|
Scott
2547 posts
Sep 09, 2009
11:21 AM
|
Brad, no what I'm talking about is a boost feeding due to how quickly it is digested, no smell with either the Swanson or the Nutrina, the droppings are hard and firm, actually with the Swansons they are firm and dark with the white on top, fine looking turds LOL.
Dennis , you keep feeding them 18 0/0 and you will ruin them,might be ok when young but once they hit the 6-7 mo plus range they will do nothing but fly strong, that is a given.
----------
Scott Campbell
"It is about testicle fortitude !! "
Last Edited by on Sep 09, 2009 11:48 AM
|
rookie from ct
GOLD MEMBER
137 posts
Sep 09, 2009
12:06 PM
|
Thanks Scott I will watch them close at 7mo. it will be Dec. and I don't think I can fly much because of BOP and they will be cut back not to get fat I would like to try wheat & milo maby I could do more searching of feed stores but so far not within 50 miles are any grain carriers that I can find. Dennis
|
winwardrollers
307 posts
Sep 09, 2009
12:51 PM
|
Scott
Yes...a nice firm turd..I think the white on top is just a bonus........But I do think you have lost your sense of smell..lol
Bwinward
|
Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
541 posts
Sep 09, 2009
4:14 PM
|
Brad,
He has lost a lot of his senses!! LOL
----------
Keep em Spinning
Joe
|
Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
542 posts
Sep 09, 2009
4:45 PM
|
Seriously, I used the Purina Pigeon Checkers pellets this summer for my breeders and was very happy with the results. Not nearly as much mess and stink as with the Purina green and gold pellets I tried a few years back. When I fed my flyers the green pellets they became too strong and the frequency and speed deteriorated. This year I mixed the Purina Checkers pellets with mixed grain until they were about 6 mos old, then to wheat, milo safflower mix. One thing to remember regarding feed is climate has a lot to do with how you feed your birds. What works in California probably won't work in Kansas or other northern climes because of temperature and humidity differences. In the north they need more carbs from corn in the winter, protein is secondary when it gets below 20 degrees F.
----------
Keep em Spinning
Joe
Last Edited by on Sep 09, 2009 4:46 PM
|
nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3675 posts
Sep 09, 2009
7:10 PM
|
Good post, Joe
----------
Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
|