Windjammer Loft
906 posts
Aug 28, 2009
7:34 AM
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Feeding our pigeons isn't as simple as it sounds....
Why is this giving us such a "Big Problem"? You would think it would be as easy as giving them good quality feed and that would be it....WRONG... Although,these birds eat
the same types of grains "why" is it so "difficult" to get it "right". From the East to the West coast,from up North to down South. The mixtures differ "greately"...
My question is: "Why" is it so different?? Why can't we all feed the same thing? Is it that much of a "Mystery"?
Can these birds survive on 1 or 2 grains,like some feed?? I would like to hear your input on this...
Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Aug 28, 2009 5:40 PM
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bman
717 posts
Aug 28, 2009
8:08 AM
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The only thing that is "for sure" with feed is that most are overfeeding.They will not only survive but flourish on a lot less than what many people feed.
JMHO
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Ron
Borderline lofts
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J_Star
2124 posts
Aug 28, 2009
12:20 PM
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I only feed one cup for 20 bird kit.
Jay
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donnie james
671 posts
Aug 28, 2009
2:01 PM
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hay paul you have to play around with with the feed until you hit it and the birds would perform to long on that so you have build them up again and slowly bring them down again until you hit it again and this will take some time to do ...................donny james
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Windjammer Loft
910 posts
Aug 28, 2009
5:40 PM
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I under stand we have to play with the feed.
But that doesn't answer my original post.....
Jay...1 cup of "what"??
donnie james.... what is it that "you" feed your birds??
Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3331 posts
Aug 28, 2009
6:30 PM
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Paul I always wonder the same thing ...but I know they can survive on one grain or two because that is all I can get where I live which is 16 percent mix protein and I have been giving this for ten years here .some people feed their birds wheat and milo to get them to perform more so what happen is that family gets use to that feed from generation to generation or some use mix with wheat and milo. what I see is my family will perform with that mix and the next generation will also..but I don't have to mess with the feed because that is all I ever use for them and when I select my breeders I select birds that want to roll and with quality and all doing it on the same feed mixture...when as with some birds you have to change the feed to get the best performance out of them because that is what some folks did with that famliy for years ..lets say for instance I give you my family all you have to do is give them a good mix..
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Ralph.
Life comes down to the choices you make, and then living with the results.
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Ty Coleman
682 posts
Aug 28, 2009
6:45 PM
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Ralph, I would have to agree with you. Once we find the feed that works we stick to it and after that we cull if they dont conform to the feed and after a while it is set into the family.Last year I had 4 different familys in one kit. The Jacs would sky out and look like pepper dots, The Courtny's would increase quality but stiffened a bit, and the Krackers flew as well as the Turners with velocity depth and quality. But to try and answer your question I think geographical location plays a major affect on our birds performance.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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donnie james
676 posts
Aug 28, 2009
10:09 PM
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hay paul right now i'm feeding my birds a mix feed about 14 to 16 %i ain't really massuring it just yet i got differnt ages in there biggest part of them are kitting but 6 i think their on their last 3 flight feathers by they should be kitting....................donny james
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Windjammer Loft
911 posts
Aug 29, 2009
8:19 AM
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Thanks list for your responses.
Ralph....your answer is exactely what I was looking to get. Thanks a lot... I feed wheat, more so because I can get it so "cheap" compaired to the rest of the feeds. I get it straight from the "farmers" around here about $3 a bushel(60 lbs). Plus I buy regular pigeon mix,maple peas,milo and pellets for the breeders separately and do my mixes from that. It can get very confusing and times. I think Iam gona go with a straight pigeon mix and forget all the rest of the added grains....LOL
Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
GOLD MEMBER
2778 posts
Aug 29, 2009
8:44 AM
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Hi paul how are ur hardesty birds doing ???
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RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
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Windjammer Loft
912 posts
Aug 29, 2009
8:02 PM
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Hey Rudy....I got rid of the Hardesty/Roe birds. I guess at the time when I got them,I didn't know my butt moderated from a hole in the ground about rollers. They weren't the right birds for me at the time..
Iam flying some Fireballs,Rubys and I got ahold of some really good flying oriental rollers now.
Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Aug 30, 2009 3:40 PM
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Bill C
438 posts
Aug 29, 2009
8:52 PM
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When ever a guy has feeding problems with rollers, I am always thinking he just needs more experience under his belt. The feeding of rollers is not hard if you know what you are doing. It does take most of us two years or three to really understand what and how much to feed. Like Ron said most overfeed and have problems with the flying kits.
You can feed these birds straight wheat or mix or pellets or hen scratch and do well with flying them. You just have to know how much to give and when to feed up and rest them as donny said. He is right that you have to build them up and break them down and rest them from time to time.
Some guys have not figured out you cannot have them rolling in good condition everyday 365 a year. You will lose them to over flying them if they are in rolling conditon too long.
You have to spend time flying the birds everyday or every other day and if you spend the time flying them and watching them you will figure out from day to day what works best for you. This may not be your case at all but if you are not flying them regularly no feed will work for you. Rollers need a trainer who is consistant! Consistancy will bring out the best in any birds out there. Hope this helps. BIll C
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RodSD
338 posts
Aug 29, 2009
11:37 PM
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It is confusing indeed. Some answers could be that we are all located differently with different weathers, having different family/strain, health, etc. So you do feed experiments of what is good/best for your birds in your particular environment for your particular location and for your particular bird. Experiment, observe, then learn.
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J_Star
2126 posts
Aug 31, 2009
5:24 AM
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Paul, that is one cup of wheat. On occasion I substiture quarter of a cup mix for energy enhancer.
Jay
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Pumpkin Man
149 posts
Aug 31, 2009
5:40 AM
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Paul,
I understand your frustration. It's taken me a while to understand what to do and I'm still making mistakes but if you are only feeding one grain my advice would be to make the one grain wheat. Then when you want to mess around with the feed add some milo or peas or commercial mix. I flew my young birds on straight wheat and flew them everyday most of this summer. I fed two cups for 20 birds when flying everyday. If you fly every other day cut the feed back to maybe 1.5 cups or less on the rest day. Rollers by nature are just feed sensitive and you have to make adjustments it's kind of the nature of the hobby.
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Windjammer Loft
915 posts
Sep 01, 2009
6:54 AM
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Pumpkin Man....That's kinda what Iam talking about. If rollers can survive on just wheat alone.... Why then,do guys feed "all" the other different grains and pellets??? I can see with feeding just wheat,how a guy could have "more" control over his birds. But,when you add all the other grains doesn't that just "MESS" up the control factor?? One more thing to "think" about.. How do you feed up youngsters or even older birds,by giving them all they can eat and "still" have control over them for trapping purposes? I know the more I fed my birds...
the longer it takes them to trap when they land... What gives??? Time to go fly my birds. I'll check back alittle later....
Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Sep 01, 2009 6:55 AM
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Pumpkin Man
150 posts
Sep 01, 2009
7:48 AM
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Paul,
If you are not prepping your birds for competition don't worry about it so much. just know that different grains will probably make your birds react differently. When in doubt ask the person you got your birds from how to feed them. I fed straight wheat because my young birds were flying very low and I was trying to get them up this summer and it was the only thing that worked for me. If they were high I would not have been feeding straight wheat, probably just a mix. Feed them based on what they are doing. Young birds are going to change over time and they will probably require feed adjustments. If your birds are doing exactly what you want don't change anything, if they are not, trying different grains or combinations thereof is how flyers try to get the most performance out of them. Control their length of fly with quantity of feed, and control their performance (height, rolling, and frequency) with type of feed. Air temperature will also play a part in this. Paul I never give my birds all they want. The most they get is 2 cups per 20 birds. When people say feed them up they are saying your birds are too thin they need a feed higher in protein/fat not necessarily more feed. If they are too fat use less protein/fat and more carbs. Using a measuring cup is the only way to get precision. If you feed too much they may sky out and you lose them, too little, and they will come down early. On rest days feed less. If you are flying every day at the same time you could feed the same ration. It takes some time to learn your birds and how to feed, be patient. I am convinced the comp flyers that consistently win are experts in knowing how, when, and why, to feed what they feed. It's an art. If young birds get too lean feed them a mix or some pellets. You don't have too feed them more necessarily, just the different grain will help you. You don't want them too lean or too fat. Pretend you are the team nutritionist and they are your athletes. You control everything they do whether you know it or not. I'm still learning myself and it can be very frustrating so be patient. Don't make drastic changes at first unless prepping them for comp.
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Windjammer Loft
917 posts
Sep 02, 2009
7:53 AM
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Pumpkin Man... I have a "very" good understanding about the com preperation.. Iam not concerned about that. It's just puzzling that so many guys feed differently but,they are all feeding "rollers"...lol
You would think that as long as guys have been flying rollers that their would be a "basic" way to feed, with just using a regular pigeon fed... But...it's not that way.
Fly High and Roll
Paul
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harrison
1235 posts
Sep 02, 2009
4:27 PM
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The company that produce the feed I am using do a wide range of mixes for racing pigeons.
All round mix,use all year.
widowhood mix,
bread and whean mix,
winter mix,
depuritive,
wheat,
barley,
super juinor,
And many more.
These mixes are for,
Long distance racing,short distance.
lock down,breading,
and so on.
So there is many diffrent feeds i could mess around with but by what i have read about the best feeds to go with is the smaller range like depuritive that is made up of barley and wheat/dairy.
This mixed with bread and whean that consists of beans/peas/saff/dairey/red and white.
so the two above mixes 2.5 kilos each together is what many of the uk guys are using.
I have found that this has built up my youngsters whilst at the same time keeps them hungry and rolling.
I do think that i need to take away some of the bread and whean so they are not getting as much big stuff.
So next time i get the feed i will mix 2.5 kilos depuritive and 1 and quarter bread and whean.
maybe this will take some of the waight off and make them more active?
any advice or tips would be great.
i am not an exspert on feeds and would take any good advice and put it to use.
you can see what feeds i can get my hands on so any mixes you guys can put together please post them.
yours in roll harrison
uk hull.
Last Edited by on Sep 02, 2009 4:31 PM
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3352 posts
Sep 02, 2009
5:06 PM
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This is a good post and Pumpkin great post too.I'm just glad I feed one type of grain and I get my birds to perform more by listening to them when I see that they stop rolling then they tell me I'm overflying them so I rest them and feed them up and when they don't trap fast enough for me I take away their ration if they are light in hand I feed more in other words the birds talk to me they tell me what they need.. but I never give them all they want only what they need..mix grain is the only grain they have here in PR and I learn to make the best out of it... and same thing goes with everyone you learn to make the best of what you have..but I know what you mean Paul it just makes you scratch your head...I hear you.. ----------
Ralph.
Life comes down to the choices you make, and then living with the results.
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toughrollers
239 posts
Sep 02, 2009
7:49 PM
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Hi Paul,
I too get very frustrated with this and that and when and what to feed our rollers. From my experience so far I have learnt that if you feed grains that consist over 16% protein in 3 or 4 generations the birds will eventually get bigger in size. I have learnt only to give that amount if breeding. For flying birds I try to keep my protein between 12 and 14%. I presently just give them grains and only feeding pellets when Im breeding or when I want to put them in good condition. I still believe it is the amount we are feeding them not the grains. Good luck.
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Last Edited by on Sep 02, 2009 11:35 PM
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J_Star
2137 posts
Sep 03, 2009
5:32 AM
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Harrison, What are your birds doing right now and the past week and what are you trying to accomplish?
To take off weight of your birds (breaking them down) is very simple and doesn’t need to try different mixes to do that. Just cut their feed drastically until they start flying for 10 min and barely clear the tree tops. When they reach to that for couple of flight, then you start building them back up. To do that, just up the feed until you reach equilibrium with flight time.
Jay
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J_Star
2138 posts
Sep 03, 2009
5:39 AM
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There is no such thing as a specific % of protein, carbs or oil that you give. Let the flight time, height, and work rate be your guide. Once you use those three pillars, then you will find the RIGHT mix for YOUR birds under your ENVIORMENT (weather conditions and surroundings). How difficult is that!! You need to try things and you will learn from your errors as we all did.
Jay
Last Edited by on Sep 03, 2009 5:41 AM
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Windjammer Loft
921 posts
Sep 03, 2009
7:03 AM
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Iam just trying to keep this feeding as simple as possible. And cut down on the expense, if I can. Thanks for all your inputs.
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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Joe K
17 posts
Sep 21, 2009
11:05 PM
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J Star, You just posted exactlly what I needed to read!! Thank You!!!!!!!!
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