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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
1D Regionals
1D Regionals
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2089 posts
Oct 18, 2009
5:58 PM
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Region 1D held our regional competitions this weekend with the state crawling with hawks and several flyers refusing to fly as a result. World Cup Champion, Joe Bob Stuka opened up with only 25 points-two outbirds most of the entire fly. By the time I was to fly, a cold north wind had picked up to 25 mph, and the coldest temps of the season, neither of which were predicted. But my birds really set a nice pace, kitted great in the wind, a good work rate, with five double digit breaks with good quality and depth...the wind hurt the quality some, though. But after one hawk atttack and a hawk fly-by, rolling hard and fighting the wind, the kit landed at 14 min 11 secs....Q 1.3 and D 1.5 for a total of 263.25 which didn't count! DQ!! Double Master Flyer and 20-bird National Champion Clay Hoyle flew next...the temps continued to drop in the upper 30s with gusty winds....he had a good team, as usual for Clay...16 breaks...one double digit break...for a total score of 177.32 to take the lead. Today (Sunday) was an excellent competition with each flyer beating the previous flyer by a few points. Everyone flew in our coldest temps and high wind today, also, but all the kits handled the wind smoothly, with no outbirds to speak of. 20-bird National Champion Charlie Stack opened up with 188 this morning, topping Clay's score by just a few points.....Very active kit, 26 breaks,(two double digit breaks), with 1.0 Q and 1.0 D. Our NBRC Regional Director, Joe Mitchell, was next and his birds looked great with 18 breaks, no double digit breaks...trailing in third place as I watched the time tick off, not even looking at the kit. The judge called out a "10" and I called "time" so close behind him that there was no space between the two calls, one right after the other! I never got to see the break that won it for him, since I was watching the clock. That final 10 bird break took him from third to first, with Q1.3 and D1.3 and a total score of 197.73. The final flyer, Steve Meyers' kit, got hit by a hawk right out of the kit box and the BOP took a bird. The kit broke twice, flew away, and did not return until after time was up. So here I sit, with the highest point total, 263.25, five double digit breaks, Q1.3 D1.5 and a fly time of 14 minutes 11 secs! Damn that DQ rule. I agree with Clay and Joe Bob. Time limits should not nullify the score! It is what it is! But really guys, I could not be happier that my good friend Joe MItchell won the region. He has worked hard in the sport for many years and deserves the win. Congratulations Joe! This region continues to get tuffer and tuffer with every competition. Most importantly, we had a ball all weekend long! Lots of laughs and good times all around with the breath-taking competition. I was told that there is only one way for me to be able to forget scoring the most points in the region with a fly time of 14 minutes and 11 seconds.....lay the ol' Johnson on an anvil and hit it hard with a hammer! LOL!
Cliff
Last Edited by on Oct 18, 2009 6:08 PM
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winwardrollers
315 posts
Oct 18, 2009
8:26 PM
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Cliff
I have never like the.. present.. DQ rule.
I think there should be a DQ rule but for all together differant reasons.
The present DQ rule never tells the story of what the kit was like ..all you read is DQ....a non/seldom working kit can beat a kit with great depth and quality that came down early...what is the point?
I would say for DQ's ..to let the flyer keep the score after dividing it in half..and post depth & quality with the letter.. P.. meaning pently for down early. Leave the DQ for something like a guy standing on his roof waving a flag while his kit is being judged...or bad sportmanship.
bwinward
Last Edited by on Oct 18, 2009 8:27 PM
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wishiwon2
211 posts
Oct 18, 2009
8:46 PM
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Brad,
I have to disagree about the DQ rule. You're right that it doesnt always tell the whole story ... But I really dont think 15 minutes is too much to expect from every team that scores. Think of it the other way around. If I had a team that could work hard for 30 minutes, shouldnt they receive points for all the time they were working? Just give them 1/2 credit for the pts they score after 20 minutes ... I know a DQ is a huge drag, but there has to be a line that is adhered to somewhere along the way. What would help in these types of situations is a miniseries instead of a singular fly competition to pick the best kit to represent a region.
I realize Cliff's fly was likely the result of uncontrolable factors; sudden weather change, temperature, BOP etc. However, I believe most the time a kit lands early is because of mis-management. They simply werent prepared for the conditions they flew in. If we begin to place judgement decisions on "why" a kit DQ's judging becomes incredibly uncomfortable and inconsistent.
One thing I dont understand; Why was Cliff's team assigned Q and D multipliers. If the kit DQ before flying a qualified time, they never should have even been calculated. The judge should/could have had them in his mind, but not calculated on a score sheet.
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Jon
If it were easy, everybody would do it
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George R.
104 posts
Oct 18, 2009
9:37 PM
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Cliff maybe the rule should be 10 minutes instead of 15 ... what do you think ....
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George Ruiz
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2090 posts
Oct 19, 2009
5:19 AM
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Jon
I, personally, requested that the judge go ahead and calculate it for my own edification, and as an educational experience. It makes a difference for me to know what the quality and depth multipliers were, how many breaks were scored and how big they were. Just like the narratives that are written about the kits flown, each kit gets a description of how the kit performed. Many men will get a better picture of the performance of the kit if the judge evaluates what he saw, even if the kit receives a DQ and no official score. For example if I had changed my feed in quality or quantity and they DQ'd, that would speak volumes....or if I had rested them more days or less days.
I can assure that in the rankings of the kits in the region, I will be ranked much nearer the bottom than the top! It's more of an individual idea that some flyers and judges do and some don't. But, I highly recommend it for everyone, if you want to evaluate your preparation of the team for comp day. It's not much for a flyer to ask in return for the entry fees he paid and for the support of the region.
JMHO,
Cliff
Last Edited by on Oct 19, 2009 5:20 AM
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2091 posts
Oct 19, 2009
5:35 AM
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George,
In the discussion our flyers had, most agreed that there should be no time limits whatsoever. The time limit evolved to protect the birds during the day when guys were starving birds down in order to get performance out of them. I don't see that happening today. Your suggestions illustrates how arbitrary the rule is. We have simply drawn an arbitrary line in the sand that has very little to do with the performance of the birds. Kits should be scored for twenty minutes and if they fly less time, they will typically score fewer points. It is already a self-limiting process without taking away their score. But if a kit with higher Q and D, and bigger breaks, outscores me in less time...in my mind, that is the better kit, regardless of how long they flew. What is our objective in flying rollers...producing birds that perform with quality and speed or producing birds that can fly specific periods of time? Let's take it to the extreme....Which is the better kit, the kit that scores 50 points with Q 1.1 and D 1.1 and flew 20 minutes? Or the kit that scores 300 points with double digit breaks and 1.5 Q and 1.5 D in 13 minutes? I know which kit I would rather own....And it's an interesting philosophical discussion....I'm not whining, mind you. I am glad to see Joe win his first regional. It meant much more to me to see my friend dancing around the yard whooping and hollerin' when his score was announced, than it would have meant to have won the region myself!
JMHO,
Cliff
Last Edited by on Oct 19, 2009 5:38 AM
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Scott
2574 posts
Oct 19, 2009
6:34 AM
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There is no reason in the world that a kit can't fly a measly 15 minutes(unless not used to heat), sorry Cliff but you boned it, and I have done the same, the other flyer won because on that day he was the best flyer because he didn't over push the envelope and have a blow out.
The rules weren't the problem here nor do they need to be changed because here and there we mismanage our birds, lick your wounds and learn what you did wrong.
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Scott Campbell
"It is about testicle fortitude !! "
Last Edited by on Oct 19, 2009 6:36 AM
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2092 posts
Oct 19, 2009
7:11 AM
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Scott,
A part of me agrees with you Scott....but then I didn't do anything different than what I've been doing for nine months that has produced 1-2 hours of flying time. A hawk flew over 10 secs after they landed and they took off again and flew for another 20 minutes. I flew them last evening...it was still cold, but less wind and they flew for an hour. I seriously do not see how they could have been managed any differently to have produced a different result under the same flying conditions. As I said before, these birds just decided not to fly in the cold, wind, and hawks and made the decision to hit the kitbox. In my opinion, the flyer just gets bitten in the arse by unpredicted freakish weather or BOP sometimes and he ought not sacrifice his score because of things that are out of his control. Flyers already have a lot of strikes against them. They deserve every break we can give them.
Cliff
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viper
68 posts
Oct 19, 2009
6:30 PM
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Cliff forget about the DQ move on for the next one I once had a kit come down at 14:57 its still a DQ it happens and you learn from it.Now show the video of you doing the anvil wack that would be better than watching a full turn.:0.Blake
Last Edited by on Oct 19, 2009 6:31 PM
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Scott
2579 posts
Oct 19, 2009
9:34 PM
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Cliff, the weather report is as critical as the feed can do to it dictates the feed can, this is the kind of stuff that makes it challanging.
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Scott Campbell
"It is about testicle fortitude !! "
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macsrollers
211 posts
Oct 19, 2009
10:11 PM
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In a championship competition there is nothing wrong with a team expected to fly the minimum of 15 minutes. That is one part of the judging format that I definitely agree on. If a horse leads a race for 1 mile by 10 lengths but the distance is 1 1/4 mile and he falters due to whatever reasons does it deserve the win because it lead 4/5ths of the race? We all fly under the same rules and are at the whim of the judge's discretion and interpertation of the standards and rules set. I just experienced a situation in our region fly where I personally feel there is no question that one of the kits that qualified was at best the 6th place kit of the fly. But that is my personal opinion. I was not the judge and the official scores indicated otherwise. And I mean no disrespect to the judge or the person that flew that kit. In these situations our personal opinion doesn't count on fly day, only the judge's scoring of the kit does. Each of us on the fly had our personal opinions of what happened in the air. Also, by constantly changing the rules and criteria, sometimes not for the better, it can be counter productive. Look at the Master Flier program. The rules and point system have now been changed several times and to earn master flier status now is much more difficult to achieve then in the past. Does that discredit the previous Master Flier winners. No way. But it does change the format enough to where and asterik could be put in to designate who acheived what under what rules and point system. But it isn't necessary in my mind, I am just using this as an example of how tweeking the rules changes the measure of what was accomplished historically with what is accomplished in the present. Bad luck for Cliff, just like bad luck for George in our region. Two guys that can compete and unfortunately just wasn't their day, nor was it mine!
Everyone enjoy your next fly! Don M. LVRC
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2094 posts
Oct 20, 2009
6:28 AM
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All valid points, guys. It's just an interesting point to debate. The rules and the criteria used by the judges come up for discusion at nearly every competition, and that's not such a bad thing. The judges also come under a certain amount of scrutiny and evaluation....some of it not so pleasant, right, Scott?
Cliff
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Scott
2580 posts
Oct 20, 2009
10:30 PM
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Cliff, my job is judging for the best team of Birmingham Rollers in the country, not to make everyone feel warm and fuzzy.
It is never pleasant handing out a crappy score card, but it is what it is and I take this task very serious.
(The judges also come under a certain amount of scrutiny and evaluation....some of it not so pleasant, right, Scott?
Cliff )
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Scott Campbell
"It is about testicle fortitude !! "
Last Edited by on Oct 20, 2009 10:31 PM
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2097 posts
Oct 21, 2009
5:32 AM
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Scott
With that mind-set and conviction, the hobby needs you to do more finals judging! Most good judges can handle judging a single fly or two, but in order to judge the entire finals, it takes what you are so fond of calling "testicle fortitude!!"....and you seem to have that in abundance. Keep qualifying in your region and placing high in the finals.....and I will hope to see you judging the finals, again, someday.
I am glad to see you are following in the footsteps of so many of our past finals judges who also took their responsibility seriously. Keep up the good work.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Oct 21, 2009 5:34 AM
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