harrison
1264 posts
Nov 01, 2009
7:16 AM
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Hi Guys .
In the last week one of my 09 birds as become one outstanding ROLLER.
DEEP/FAST/TIGHT/CONTROLE/
BUT appart from all these good things she has pickd up so bad also.
NOT getting back to the kit without doing 3 laps by herself away from the kit then deciding to re group with them.
Then she also as started to land 5mins before all the other birds.
it would be ashame to discard this bird from the kit as she his the best when it comes to the roll.
I have heard you guys talk about locking birds down for a few days and changing there diet during that time.
So if you could please share some of your tricks and advice i would be so greatfull.
yours in rol harrison
CRAVEN PARK ROLLER LOFTS HULL UK
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katyroller
628 posts
Nov 01, 2009
8:33 AM
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Harrison,
I would give her some rest and feed her up. My experience with this kind of behavior has not been positive. Birds starting to roll deep and taking their time to get back to the kit, usually were on their way to becoming rolldowns. I found birds that were slow to get back to the kit were afraid of the urge to roll that flying with the kit stimulated. At any rate good luck with her.
Tracey
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david94
97 posts
Nov 01, 2009
9:27 AM
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Hi Harrison, don’t make any special allowances for this bird just keep flying her, birds that fail to conform tend to consume so much of our time! Just my opinion.
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cv rollers
493 posts
Nov 01, 2009
10:02 AM
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Harrison sorry to say i dont think u can fix her i have one like that,what a show it puts on but it only kits when she wants to so i fly her by itself just to watch it preform,may try to breed her only once but not sure good luck,do u guys think she is worth breeding???
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Rick Flores
coachellavalleyrollers.net
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fhtfire
2178 posts
Nov 01, 2009
2:39 PM
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Harrison,
If the bird comes into the roll hard like that....and does not try and go back to the team....it can be a number of things.
First you must remember these are young birds...you have to give young birds a little slack when they come into the roll....for one...I would be a little freaked too..if I was a little kid and one day I just started doing flips while I was walking..LOL...
Here is the steps that I do when a new bird comes into the roll...usually you can pull them out of it..but you have to act fast before they get used to flying on there own.
Ok...if it is flying in a team with older birds and are more active...drop the bird back down to a lower team...it is not ready and cant handle the action of a more developed team...drop it back down for a couple weeks and then try it again in the more developed team.
If it is flying in a young bird team that is not very active....promote it to the older more active team...I would assume that your more active team is no longer being flown daily and is getting rest in between flys....that is what that birds may need...a little rest....or the younger team is not rolling as much and the team is leaving the other bird to fast and by the time it pops out of its roll...the kit is way far away....because I know that happens with my young birds....usually an older team will kind of hover and then wait for the team to catch up...or they will turn to the outbird to bring him back in.
Like I stated above, the bird may now need some rest days maybe 1 or 2 days between flys....try the demotion or promotion. Sometime just moving the bird to another team helps it.
Dont stress with 09 birds....I have had young birds find the roll...and not kit...land.....etc etc....some birds it shocks and some birds it does not....just the way it is...does not mean either way that it is a good or bad bird...still to young...next week the bird may stiffin up again....or may start kitting again.
You can also do what is suggested and just feed the bird up for about 4 days and then fly again....but that is the same is promoting to a team that gets more rest day...but for sure....try it.
Now if this was an old bird....and the bird is out of the moult...it would get demoted then it would get culled.
I would not worry..have a little patience...if you try all the above and it does not work..then it is just a cull....and move on.....but young birds again..go through many different stages and do some wierd shit....especially when they come into the roll....
I dont stress over young birds...its like clockwork for me...bird comes into the roll and act weird...I demote it or promote it.....and feed and rest.....and if it does not work..done..move on.....I do give it a couple shots for rest...promote or demote.....before I make a brash decision
If the bird is WAY young it may be on its way to rolldown..but rolldowns you can just tell....they usually dont make it down in one piece...LOL..kitting has never been and issue with my roll downs..because they dont usually make it to that point.
But dont give up home...youngbirds need white gloves sometimes..dont stress....just try some things....if it pulls out of it....it does not mean it is a bad bird or will produce bad birds...it is just going through growing pains...I have a lavender cock doing that now...he went all the way back to the young bird team......because of his issues....he is back up in the B-team after a week...and I will try the A-team again this week...so far so good.....good luck
Remember...always fly birds by performance...NOT age...like performance.....that is why it is important to move birds around based on what they are doing and not what the band says....a rolling its ass off 09 will get screwed up if you leave it with 09 birds that are not as active....and vise versa.
rock and ROLL
paul
Last Edited by on Nov 01, 2009 2:44 PM
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cr250
290 posts
Nov 01, 2009
4:12 PM
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Harrison, how deep is the bird rolling?It might be to deep for the kit.I like my birds to be no more than 30ft and return right back to the kit.I think sometimes if a bird rolls deeper than the other birds it uses alot of energy trying to keep up with the kit.That might be why it lands early.
Brian
Last Edited by on Nov 01, 2009 4:13 PM
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harrison
1265 posts
Nov 02, 2009
12:24 PM
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I new i could rely on you guys for some superb advice.
I have put her into the younger 09 team now and will fly her with them after feeding and resting for 4 days.
Out of the 20 team she was in there is about 9 of the same depth and when these go into the roll together they always make it straight back to the kit so i dont think it has anything to do with her out rolling the rest of the kit.
I think its like paul said she is just abit freakd out a little.
I have had many roll downs and this bird doesnt look like its going that way so i will deffo give her some time to adapt to the kit otherwise its good by.
She come out of a brother and sister mating and these birds have proven in the air but this is there first young to be tried.
I carnt believe how lucky i have been as this is my second year of flying young birds and this is the first time i have had a bird with kitting problems.
Like i said she does have team mates with as good standard but she may put in them extra few rolls so i think that could be the cause to dropping to early?
Stated in my first post this as only started in the last week so fingers crossd i can nip the problems in the bud nice and early.
Your advice guys has been second to none and PAUL thank you for taking your time to put so much info and advicce into your post.
It doesnt go un noticed please believe me.
you have plenty of talent and its great that you and guys alike take your time to help.
Yours in roll and respect
Harrison CRAVEN PARK ROLLER LOFTS HULL UK
PS. Will keep posting on how the bird comes along and what ideas and advice help or did not.
Last Edited by on Nov 02, 2009 3:59 PM
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3750 posts
Nov 02, 2009
1:00 PM
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david94 is right on. You don't have time to cater to those special needs birds. Those birds that do not conform to your needs need to be removed. Pretty soon you will have 2 or 3 special needs birds and it will escalate from there. I would also not recommend you stocking those special needs birds either. They will tend to create more special needs birds. You will have no time for anything else; all your time will be spent on these birds.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
Last Edited by on Nov 02, 2009 1:01 PM
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wishiwon2
223 posts
Nov 04, 2009
11:09 PM
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I agree with Nick and david94. Be patient, give it some time to work itself out. Change the kit it flys with etc but dont go to any lengths making special concessions. Also set a limit for it, such as I will do this (management technique) for X amount of time. If the problem has not been resolved by then, get rid of it.
If you continually make excuses for your birds and coddle them along, you will end up with a loft full of birds that require the extra attention. Certainly make a note somewhere that this bird had this issue during developement and I would recomend a note saying not to breed from this individual.
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Jon
If it were easy, everybody would do it
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harrison
1282 posts
Nov 07, 2009
1:44 PM
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I had her out today (7DAYS LOCK DOWN)I put her up with the deepest 11 out of the A TEAM and
Yes they were small improvements like she stayd with the kit more than before but still BIG ISSUES.
When she pulls out of the roll its like she is looking for somwere to land.
If you get my meaning?
She seems scared to death.
She must be doing 50 ft and verry tight and fast so to come on to that from nowere is going to be abit strange isnt it?
but were do you draw the line.
I carnt keep giving her that one more day all the time as like you guys said the rest of the kit will wanna fly solo and drop early.
O and she was down about ten mins before the rest today.
Thank you for your support and time.
Harrison CRAVEN PARK ROLLER LOFT HULL UK.
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Velo99
2190 posts
Nov 07, 2009
6:01 PM
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Had a similar situation here a few weeks ago with three birds. One was hitting 30-40 but flying by himself with another one hanging out with him.Another one was being generally uncooperative.
I flew the snot out of them for two weeks.The weekend before the time change I flew that kit 5 times,4 times last weekend and twice this one already. Ya know they look a lot better now. Getting a groove on and hitting some pretty decent breaks. They get to fly two or three times during the week.
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V99
blue sky single beat
in cadance performing now
earth beckons the winged
drawn breath is let quickly forth
orchestral movement follows
___ ~_____ _
\__\_/-|_| \__\____
/()_)__14___()_)\__\
Last Edited by on Nov 07, 2009 6:01 PM
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JMUrbon
760 posts
Nov 08, 2009
8:46 AM
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I would not consider this bird a trouble bird at this point. I dont believe that it cant be used for stock and I also dont believe it needs to be removed from your loft. Remember this is a young bird and when first comming into the roll they will have alot of things to worry about in the beginning. The bird should be given some rest and I think that Pauls advice was very sound. Take a look at the history of the birds and its sibblings and then make a thought out decision and not one that was given to you on a forum that knows nothing about the bird. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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harrison
1283 posts
Nov 12, 2009
2:40 PM
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Hi Guys,
Tried using diffrent ideas and put her out with not so active 09 birds(LAST ROUND)
She was still putting in some awsome spins but seemd to not go as often as usal.
She did alot more flying with the kit also.
I Do believe that she will pull out of these problems and will give her a 110% chance to do so.
BUT if I see that she is having a bad affect on the other birds then its time to draw the line.
As you guys no even on my 3rd year realy taking rollers for real I am still learning and no Its problems like this that I need to beable to solve as this is the first of many and given the chance and help some of these birds will come great for the futre of my stock.
Your support and advice is a realy big part of my learning so i would like to thank you ALL.
Yours in roll
Harrison
CRAVEN PARK ROLLER LOFTS HULL UK
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rtwilliams
GOLD MEMBER
482 posts
Nov 12, 2009
6:50 PM
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Harrison
You may want to do the opposite of what I have read to do. Make her a strong flier by flying her a lot, no rest, once a day. Be careful with the feed.
It was funny with my Comp kit. I had them fed down and fying daily, no crashes, and they flew 20 minutes. After the compition, I feed them way up. Trying to put a little fat on them for winter. And flying evey third day. A few have crashed with the over feeding and the rest.
Like I said fly her more and take care with the feed can, make her a stronger flier, not weaker by flying less, and over feeding.
Just a thought.
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RT Williams
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harrison
1286 posts
Nov 16, 2009
11:51 AM
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Funny you say that as that is what i have started to do.
Fat them up for winter and get them nice and plump for breeding.
But I think tis girl has passd her sell by date as she has bumpt 3 out of the last 4 flys.
Thank you for your avice and i will keep a close eye on the rest of my birds.
yours Harrison
CRAVEN PARK ROLER LOFT HULL UK
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katyroller
634 posts
Nov 16, 2009
2:17 PM
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Harrison,
Sorry to hear that your hen has started bumping. Like I said in my first post, I had a feeling she was turning into a rolldown. What you described, is exactly what all of my rolldowns have done in the past. I have never had a rolldown just turn into a rolldown overnight.
Tracey
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harrison
1288 posts
Nov 17, 2009
4:54 AM
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Yes its a shame but thats the way birds can somtimes turn out isnt it?
At least I have learnt one thing and that is to not bread out of the pair that bread the hen this year
as no dought things could go the same way.
I will bread a late bread out of the pair just to be 100 % its the pairents as a pair.
Thank you TRACEY
yours harrison
CRAVEN PARK ROLLER LOFT HULL UK.
Last Edited by on Nov 17, 2009 4:54 AM
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