Scott
2636 posts
Nov 28, 2009
8:58 AM
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Nick, ten kits must be paid for.
(The strange thing occurrs when you have only 9 or less kits bought, but the club allows one qualifier and this I don't understand.)
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
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fhtfire
2244 posts
Nov 28, 2009
8:58 AM
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Cliff,
You are right...this stuff would be so much better if everyone kept there nose out of other regions business....First..we learned as kids to mind your own business unless someone is injured or hurt or has the potential...or will affect you in a negative way...other then that...when my brother and I would brawl...she would say lets have Ryan take care of Ryan and Paul take care of Paul...well...those stuck with me...and the second is this....dont air your dirty laundry to others....and dont keep snooping over the fence in your neighbors backyard....its just RUDE>..
Every region needs to take care of themselves when it comes to how they doe business or run flys...and they should handle there own business....if someone has a problem in the region it is voted on within the region...What I see is this...you have the one person that does not get his way when outvoted...and then wont move on or shut up about it....instead of accepting the voice of the MANY...
Every region has little issues here and there.....but the key is to keep your yappers shut and handle your business and move on.....and again..>KEEP YOUR NOSE IN YOUR OWN CHEERIOS...and second....another region is like another mans woman..you can look but dont touch!!!! (or make comments)
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Scott
2637 posts
Nov 28, 2009
9:07 AM
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Cliff,if indeed you are giving preferance of one flyer over another then what you are doing is highly unfair.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3896 posts
Nov 28, 2009
10:01 AM
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Kenny, I have never favored any flier for any reason. It is all about where they live and where I start and finish the day in relationship where I am heading to next to start the next day. I arrange my route to give me the shortest travel; it is a big region.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3897 posts
Nov 28, 2009
10:26 AM
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What is wrong with flying after 3:00PM? Come on Kenny! The fly day starts about 7:00AM and ends about 5:00PM. So, there could be as many four guys flying 3:00PM and after. Are you saying these are inherently bad for flying pigeons?
Come on Kenny, those pigeons really don't give a damn when they fly and neither do the fliers as long as you give them (the fliers) ample notice and then get the judge there on time.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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Scott
2640 posts
Nov 28, 2009
10:39 AM
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Nick, I certainly don't want to spit up my A-team up after 3 pm , if they get ran up (or mis managed) there can be several years of work lost if caught in the dark, for myself I would pass rather than gamble it depending on the team.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Nov 28, 2009 10:43 AM
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3898 posts
Nov 28, 2009
11:35 AM
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Well, I guess I should fly everyone before 3:00PM because none of us want to loose any birds. Bullshit, Scott.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3899 posts
Nov 28, 2009
11:41 AM
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Scott - Region 8A only had 9 kits bought.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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Scott
2641 posts
Nov 28, 2009
12:21 PM
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Nick, never will I gamble on it with a solid team of old birds, for me the better option is to wait for the next fly. That is my option not to take a gamble on pissing off my best, I will and have also passed due to extream weather.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
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Scott
2642 posts
Nov 28, 2009
12:28 PM
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Nick, from what I understand is they paid for 10 but I was asked to find out why only nine were turned in, If I remember Rick S Dqed his 2nd team but it wasn't on the report, this was taken care of from what I was told.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
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warpspeed
116 posts
Nov 28, 2009
12:33 PM
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why would any one have to fly past 3pm. we have flown up to 10 11 flyers and have been done by 1pm . that should be more than enough kits to see in one day before you have to send your judge to the doctor for a stiff neck.
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birdman
753 posts
Nov 28, 2009
1:52 PM
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Scott, anybody that has put in the hard work and time to build a solid 'A'team of spinners is wise to use caution, common sense, and restraint to not let them out if the flying conditions don't seem favorable. My hat's off to you for having that discipline.
Anybody that would call 'bullshit' on a flyer that chooses to hold his birds in for this reason is just plain ignorant, has no respect for the flyer's judgement, or has never had a team worthy of preserving for another day, Or maybe all of the above.
Just my opinion of course.
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3900 posts
Nov 28, 2009
2:08 PM
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Warpspeed, I have to travel 3500 miles to get my region done in 7 or 8 days. There are times I have a 2 or 3 hour drive from one loft to the next. If I don't fly my region from 7 to 5 it will take me at least 10 days to get my region done. It is very difficult to get a judge to spend a week living in my car and motels for 7 days let alone 10 days or more.
There are many top notch fliers who fly well past 3:00PM. Sal Ortiz has done it; Jim Bowen has done it; Jerry Holder has done it; Dave Hafner has done it; and others. I have yet to have anyone leave thier birds up past daylight.....just some whinning bullshit.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
Last Edited by on Nov 29, 2009 11:30 PM
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3901 posts
Nov 28, 2009
2:14 PM
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I am blessed to have the fliers I have in my region; that is all I have to say. They appreciate what I am faced with and help me achieve our goals by putting thier birds up whatever the schedule maybe. As long as it ain't dark they gladly put'em up.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3902 posts
Nov 28, 2009
2:24 PM
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Russ, I respect the judgement of a flier that says at 5:00PM I still have atleast 1 Hour and 47 minutes and sometimes longer of sunshine no mater which fly I am competing in. I will win this thing.
I lost 16 birds at 10:30AM two years ago. Do I say now that I will pass if I am scheduled at 10:30? Would you still respect me in the morning? And my birds are getting better. I did pretty well in this years WC, but was terrible in the NBRC. Was not the birds fault.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2174 posts
Nov 28, 2009
2:53 PM
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Interesting. We have guys in our region that actually PREFER to fly after 3:00. And in the early fall or spring, right up to 7-8:00 PM. We have had several kits coming down in the dark. Scott, since you won't out your birds up after 3:00, you don't get any special preference based on that fact,now, do you? LOL!
The point is that it is much more unfair to judge each other for the way I do things in my region or the way Nick does them in his region or any other RD for that matter, when it comes to scheduling. Like Paul says, there is bound to be a complainer or two in any region, no matter how things are done. You can't please everyone. Each region has very different circumstances and difficulties that the Regional Director must deal with in order to coordinate the competition and make it happen. The majority rules. It is much more appropriate for the Regional Directors to be more concerned with the will of their flyers than be concerned about the judgement and criticsm of men who are hundreds of miles away and their comments on internet lists.
Cliff
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Scott
2643 posts
Nov 28, 2009
3:14 PM
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I certainly hope not Cliff (preference), what is so funny ? I find nothing funny with having a couple years of hard work and birds under my care still up after dark to be torn into by the owls.
(We have had several kits coming down in the dark. Scott, since you won't out your birds up after 3:00, you don't get any special preference based on that fact,now, do you? LOL!!)
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Nov 28, 2009 4:12 PM
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Scott
2644 posts
Nov 28, 2009
3:20 PM
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Russ, I have felt the pain and shed tears over it enough to know better,and painful it is. There is nothing worse than looking into an empty kitbox that was filled with birds that have been with you for a couple of years and up. Some don't understand for a reason.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Nov 28, 2009 5:40 PM
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Mongrel Lofts
619 posts
Nov 28, 2009
5:31 PM
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Nick,
Nice job of taking this a whole different direction than my question. My question is, do you let the same guys have the choice early flys in th prelims. Even when others were stating that they didn't want to fly late afternoon because they had been forced to most years.
Nick try and see what I'm saying here. The fly times should be moved around so all flyers in a region have a shot at the prime times. Not special entrust shown for the better flyers every year. If bob westfall flys early morning for 9 years in a row, and others have to fly late to make sure they get their way. Its not a fair playing field and they are being given advantages others don't have. Yes, the better kits still win, but if you don't think fly time and conditions play a role in how well a kit does. Your dumber than a LIBERAL!!!! LOL you ask any winning flyer, Like Rick Mee or Clay Hoyle. Any of them. That is why I think prime times should be moved around. If you flew on the front end this year. Start on the other end and let those guys have a shot at the cool morning breeze with the moisture beggining to rise out of the ground. No one should be favored over another in the region if you want to promote fair flying.
Nick, Bill Roy was scheduled to fly at 3pm. A couple phone calls and he is flying at 8am. Why was that? Hmmmmmmmm KGB
Last Edited by on Nov 29, 2009 4:23 PM
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3904 posts
Nov 28, 2009
6:13 PM
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Bill Roy has never, never talked to me about his fly times. I have never talked to anyone about fly changes other than about Eldon's change. I rarely talk to Bill on the phone. I have had one conversation and that was about the ASRA's Picnic and Show. The change was done over the changing of Eldon Cheney's fly time and day due to his (Eldon's) last minute judging assignment. You need to quit listening to Ray. Times will change every year because I start the fly in different locations every year and then I go by shortest route. That pretty well puts everybody on a different schedule every year. Last year I started and ended in the St. Louis area. The year befor I started and ended in Oklahoma. In 2010 I will start in Arkansas or Kansas. A lot of depends where the judge lives and/or where I will be picking him up.
He (Roy) flew at 7:30 and Westfall was to fly the last fly the evening before(after 3:00PM. Your accusations aren't valid.
You can put your "Hmmmmmmmmmm" back in the face it came from. You are starting to mess with my credibility about fairness.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2176 posts
Nov 28, 2009
6:38 PM
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Scott,
The humerous part was on one hand you wee critical of me being potentially unfair for giving anyone a preferred fly time, yet on the other hand you were saying that you preferred not to fly after 3:00PM. I think every flyer has those kinds of preferences. When we can, we try to honor them. To be honest, I have never had any flyer ever complain to me about his fly time. Some say that, rumors have it, that there have been a few complaints over the years, but I can only remedy those that communicate with me. If they don't even have the cahones to let me know what they prefer, then I'm afraid I can't help them. I suspect that every RD is in the same boat.
Cliff
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fhtfire
2245 posts
Nov 28, 2009
7:31 PM
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Scott,
Since you will not fly after 3pm...NExt year I am scheduling you for 3:01 pm....damn..wish you could fly with us...any other guys not want to fly after 3...I need to eliminate some more Competititon..LOL..LOL..LOL.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2177 posts
Nov 28, 2009
7:52 PM
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The real question for Scott is, "How many times have you been assigned a fly time after 3:00 PM because of which you then refused to compete? Or has your RD given your the consideration that you deserve and scheudled your flies at a more preferrable time? Just being the devil's advocate here.....
Cliff
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3905 posts
Nov 28, 2009
8:42 PM
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Scott ain't one of those premadonnas is he? The region caters to him? Mr. Master Flier guy. Surely not.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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katyroller
658 posts
Nov 28, 2009
8:50 PM
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Scott,
Actually the better question would be ... has anyone in your region had to fly after 3:00 PM? How many times have you pulled your kit out of a fly because you were assigned a fly time after 3:00 PM? I agree there is no way to make everyone happy. If a flyer hasn't had the decency to talk to the RD, why should anyone else give him an audience?
Tracey
Last Edited by on Nov 28, 2009 8:52 PM
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Mongrel Lofts
620 posts
Nov 28, 2009
10:42 PM
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Nick,
LOL you have been digging for action. I give you a little and you wet your pants! LOL
So tell me Nick, how many prelim flys has Westfall flown early and when you put him flying late afternoon, has he flown? One other question, just to make sure I'm off base here. You have been RD two years now. What were Bill Roy's fly times in the prelims those two years?
Nick, don't take this to personal. There has been a lot of talk lateley about regions treating certain individuals special. I think maybe these post will call attention to some RD's who think the new flyers doesn't deserve the same fair shake as the special flyers.
I know your doing a great job for. Your region Nick. I just figured this might make you think. Some times we favor some and don't even know we are doing it. I'm sure the same guys are not getting the early morning slots every year in your region. They do seam to get special treatment in some regions though. I say we all pay our club dues and we all have to pay to enter a kit. That means we should all expect to get the prime time fly times on a rotating basis.We should all be treated the same. We do all put our pants on one leg at a time. This is More about the practice of privlege than it is your area. You just got the BALL rolling. KGB
Last Edited by on Nov 28, 2009 11:04 PM
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3906 posts
Nov 29, 2009
2:59 AM
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Kenny, with me he (Westfall) has never flown early; in fact he has never flown for one reason or the other. Bill Roy has flown early morning both years, but I can assure you it was by happenstance. If he flies early again it will be by happenstance. I agree with you 100% that all fliers should have the same opportunities in competition.
I also do not believe that fly times are important, but that is my belief and I have to understand that others may consider them important and I do understand. I have yet to have anyone in my region ask for a specific fly time or day.
Bob Westfall is 86 and I will consider myself very fortunate to have him fly in the region ever again. I am hoping he does.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2178 posts
Nov 29, 2009
8:05 AM
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Nick
The NBRC rules require 10 kits "PAID" for each qualifier. 9 kits paid does not qualify. Their region paid for 10 kits, but only reported on 9. There can always be a paper work problem, a typo, who knows? Many of the reports that I get are incomplete. The NBRC needs to be satisfied that the requirements have been met BEFORE the finals judge is sent out.... in my opinion, and I announced that in advance, several times. We always have a lot of difficulty flying the judges in and out of Missoula, Montana, so after the flight was finally worked out, I asked Scott to confirm the tenth kit before he judged them.
E-mail me if you have any other questions and I will see what problem is.
Cliff
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Scott
2646 posts
Nov 29, 2009
8:27 AM
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Cliff / Tracey, generaly we are not making flyers gamble their main teams by scheduleing late, and on a whole the 2nd teams are flown "after" every one flys thier first team . One time I had a fly time later than I cared for depending on schedule, I was very tempted not to fly it if the schedule held, lucky for me it didn't due to another dropping.
Never have I or anyone else been treated any different than other flyers, that would de highly unfair and wouldn't be tolorated in the two regions that I have flown in.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Nov 29, 2009 8:38 AM
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2179 posts
Nov 29, 2009
8:30 AM
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Thanks, for clarifying for us, the way that your region does things, Scott.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Nov 29, 2009 8:35 AM
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kcfirl
625 posts
Nov 29, 2009
8:39 PM
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Guys,
why are we questioning how other regions rd's are doing things. OF course some regions have to fly after 3 and others never need to - no 2 regions are exactly alike and some are vastly different.
Why not trust each of the RD's tpo do the right thing and investiogate if serious complaints arise.
In most regions it is hard enough to get someone to do a halfway decent job of RD - let alone put up with all this BS and inuendo being slung around here.
Peace,
Ken Firl
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katyroller
659 posts
Nov 29, 2009
9:03 PM
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Scott,
Thanks, for the response. It's good to see that your region is keeping it fair. I agree what's good for the goose is good for the gander!
Tracey
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