wishiwon2
243 posts
Nov 24, 2009
9:14 PM
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Nick,
I dont see alot of value in certifying a roller, unless Im in the 'roller for sale' business. I have had opportunity to get birds certified and not done so. It wouldnt make me like my bird any more. It wouldnt make it breed any better. Other than for my own vanity and gratification, it holds no value.
Unless we create a registry which requires birds to be of proven ability to be used as stock, for the offspring to be registerable. As is done in several other classes of livestock. That seems unreasonable and very expensive and again ultimately for the purposes of selling pigeons.
I do see a potential in an individual bird competition based on the 30 pts scoring systems you cited above.
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Jon
If it were easy, everybody would do it
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winwardrollers
334 posts
Nov 24, 2009
9:22 PM
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Who says that a... certified roller... will breed some good young...a certified breeder..maybe worth something...Just not interested in it.
Bwinward
Last Edited by on Nov 24, 2009 9:29 PM
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3872 posts
Nov 24, 2009
9:30 PM
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Jon, I have to agree with you. I honestly feel it is not worth administrating on a national club level. It may be fun on a local club level if handled properly. Kind of like showing flying rollers. It is something clubs due to have fun with and raise money for the club(s).
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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birdman
748 posts
Nov 24, 2009
9:38 PM
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Does a guy that flies his rollers need three other guys to tell him if he's got a top notch bird ?
I can pick mine out all by myself...lol
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3874 posts
Nov 24, 2009
9:38 PM
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LOL
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
571 posts
Nov 25, 2009
6:15 AM
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Nick,
I agree with Jon on this one. Besides if you are going to certify a bird, it should be 2 years old at a minimum. A pigeon can be a magnificent spinner at 6 months old and a stone rolldown at 12 months old. I have seen it many times with birds that come in that early.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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Squabby*32
125 posts
Nov 29, 2009
1:25 AM
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I too believe a club can use this thirty point system to generate money for themselves. Just my thoughts,
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DJJeffman Spinners
ATAPWGIYAHTLY
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donnie james
801 posts
Nov 29, 2009
1:36 PM
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hay nick a few years back the portsmouth roller club a doped back the mid '90's nbrc certification and myself
and few other club members got their birds certified and i heard on earl's list a while back that the nbrc dropped the certification program a while back and i'm glad that your club has a certification and i like to see other clubs have a certification program...........
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Donny James
"Fly The Best And Cull The Rest"
"Saying One Thing;Doing Its Another"
"Keep Your Head Planted In The Sky And Wings Spanned Wide"
1996 Piedmont Roller Club Lifetime Achievement Recipient
Portsmouth Roller Club Participation Award System Recipient 1994 '96 '97 And 2000
2001 Limestone,Ohio Sportsman's Club Lifetime Member Recipient
2002Portsmouth Roller Club Certified Judge
2004Portsmouth Roller Club Lifetime Member Recipient
"Miss Portsmouth"NBRC/90/J311 Rusty Dun Check Self Hen First Bird To Get Certified In Portsmouth Roller Club History With A Score Of 53 Judge By Joe Roe The 1993 World Cup Winner And John Bender The 1994 World Cup Winner
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Spin City USA
269 posts
Nov 29, 2009
7:17 PM
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I am with birdman on this one. The only value I see would be for the table shows, unless you are in the roller selling business. Even then I would want to see them fly.
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They gotta Spin to win.....Jay
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quickspin
1086 posts
Nov 30, 2009
7:51 AM
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Many get loft blind even though they think they are not. One think to evaluate your birds is for them to be evaluated by someone else and the 30 point systems is good. I rather breed from a certified bird than one that is not. This way if it doesn't breed to my standards it goes back up and it should a nice one to see. You can also see it in black and white if the quality of your stock is going up or not. Many don't even know how hard it's to get it certified.
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Salas Loft
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3757
1330 posts
Nov 30, 2009
8:40 AM
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Salas - In the SBRC it was 5 years before a bird was certified and we flew every year. Most do not like the 30 point system because it is very tough and critical (at least the way the SBRC and PRC does it). In 1990 Arnold Jackson told me jokingly "you may get your feelings hurt with this system." I have been in love with it every since. All judges have to be trained on judging the system. I had asked the NBRC to look into using it to continue the certification program and I would lead it but no one is interested. I read where someone stated "they do not need anyone to tell them what a good one is." That rational could also be used for a good kit if that is the rationale right or wrong? I really like what the Oklahoma club is doing for the individual championship. They also have a good concept. I entered two birds in that competition also.
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Scott
2650 posts
Nov 30, 2009
9:10 AM
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LaRon, all birds should be judged with a critical eye regardless of the scoring system, honestly I see some very important basic details left out (30 point system) where it concerns Quality.
All judging systems are only as good as those judging it, it has been my experiance that some cannot dercern a fast quality bird from a fast glitchy wing switching cull.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Nov 30, 2009 9:16 AM
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ezeedad
1080 posts
Nov 30, 2009
9:25 AM
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Nick,
I'm glad to see you post this system. My club, the LARC (Los Angeles Roller Club) developed this system because there is, in our opinion a need to properly evaluate our birds.
We have long heard about the "Champion", but what does that really mean. Is it a term that is just loosely thrown around or does it represent the best of our breed?
If you really look at what our system requires of a bird, you should recognize that only a top quality roller would be able to qualify through the entire certification process.
A certification process raises the bar and focuses on quality. Isn't that what we should be trying to do?
I do agree with what some say, in that this system wouldn't be practical for a national club. It is best suited for smaller local clubs.
Most of the other objections I have seen don't make much, if any sense to me, especially the one about trying to make money. This system is just another way of trying to give recognition to the best of our breed. Only those who have a superior bird that they think can make it through the process should ask to be judged. This definitely is not something for everyone to participate in.
A Roller Reality.....
Paul Gomez
Last Edited by on Nov 30, 2009 6:55 PM
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3757
1331 posts
Nov 30, 2009
10:55 AM
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Paul - Great post but if it is good locally it can be awesome on a National level in my view.
Scott stated - "I see some very important basic details left out (30 point system) where it concerns Quality." What?
Scott - What are the basic details you are referering to? Also, if the 30 point system lacks details for a quality spinner I would be willing to bet you have not analyzed it or understand it (no offense but most do not because it is not familar to them and they are unfamilar of how it works). In the 30 point system for the PRC a bird has to perform correctly 3 times before a bird can be scored. A bird that switches wings would not even be scored because that is incorrect performance. That pigeon would not even qualify for the score sheet.
Also, the system that Paul has and the SBRC and PRC 30 points are very similar but not exactly the same. 95% the same. I have to give the credit to Arnold Jackson who first introduced me to this system 19 years ago.
Last Edited by on Nov 30, 2009 11:31 AM
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maxspin
371 posts
Nov 30, 2009
12:35 PM
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I have read the rules posted here. I have a couple of questions.
How many birds is the candidate flown with while being judged?
I do not see any points being awarded for breaking with the kit. Is this deemed as unimportant?
Keith
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birdman
756 posts
Nov 30, 2009
12:43 PM
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LaRon, how many birds have been certified here in So. California in the last year or two?
How about somebody post up a few pics of the certified birds?
Russ
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3757
1332 posts
Nov 30, 2009
1:55 PM
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Russ - As you may have read there are very few that are able to be certified using this system as I stated earlier due to the fact that the rules are tough and mediocre birds will never make it. Even so I love these rules and also the 10 point system rules that Bill McCrae and Herb Sparkes initiated in the 70's are great. The key point is that the hobby needs all aspects of the hobby including both kit competition and individual contest in my belief. Will get you some pictures.
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birdman
757 posts
Nov 30, 2009
2:34 PM
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LaRon, I'm well aware that very few birds will earn certification but you are dodging my question.
My question is simple:
"How many birds have been certified here in So. California in the last year or two ?"
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Scott
2652 posts
Nov 30, 2009
2:48 PM
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Whats to know, you are looking to only score true quality birds , trust me, I know what a true quality bird is, and I know what isn't.
(no offense but most do not because it is not familar to them and they are unfamilar of how it works).
LaRon, by the Standard an A style bird is better than a true H ? if so, Why ? are X wing scored ? Axel wing ?
what about snapping out of the roll straight and correctly , if they don't are they still scored ? Not trying to knock the system, but it just seems open ended.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Nov 30, 2009 2:49 PM
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3757
1333 posts
Nov 30, 2009
5:20 PM
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Scott - I will post the PRC 30 point and no x wings are scored. That is why I stated not all of the 30 points are exactly the same and the bird has to roll correctly 3times to score for the SBRC and PRC. We also have upgraded from the original 1990 SBRC rules. X wings are garbage and if scored that system is flawed!
Russ - I have never dodged anything in my life but I may not have read your post thoroughly. The answer is none in 08 and 09 for the PRC. Thurmond Davis has some that if they last will most likely be good candidates. He has some real smokers right now but we shall see. Also, Ying Yang (A PRC member will be up and coming). Jay Ventress, who I respect a lot, is really high on some of Ying's birds performance. But Russ I must add to have a bird Champion certified is a difficult task using this system in my experience.
Last Edited by on Nov 30, 2009 5:58 PM
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