macsrollers
233 posts
Nov 30, 2009
5:38 PM
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In this year's QSDC show they had a bull eyed class. I entered a young bird I got as a squeaker from Tim Decker as I thought it was a fine example of an apple bodied beautiful type Birmingham Roller. Not only did it win that class, it also won Grand Champion Hen. Later it also was awarded Best Young Hen. Recently this win was discounted by another fancier as they state that bull eye is a defect and how could a bird with a defect win a Grand Champion over a clean eyed bird. My response was that as far as I understand from my reading historically that bull eye has existed in Rollers from the beginning and if the judge thought the bird was the best hen shown what does bull eye have to do with it. I never considered bull eye a defect. The only time I considered any bull eye bird defective is if it didn't roll to the standard of a Birmingham Roller. So for those that have a greater knowledge and understanding of what bull eye is, is it considered a defect? Thanks, Don M. LVRC
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katyroller
661 posts
Nov 30, 2009
5:57 PM
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Don,
What color is this hen? I would not consider bull eye a defect in a bird with alot of white especially a bald head.
Tracey
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Scott
2654 posts
Nov 30, 2009
5:58 PM
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Bull eye Class, muff class ect. ect. , what about a one eyed , refer reeking circus midgit bull eyed muff class ?
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Nov 30, 2009 6:01 PM
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Mongrel Lofts
622 posts
Nov 30, 2009
7:03 PM
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Don,
You never mentioned how good the bird was in the air? KGB
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macsrollers
234 posts
Nov 30, 2009
8:42 PM
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The bird is a black self badge white flight and mixed tail, typical to any bull eyed birds I've seen as I haven't seen any bull eyes without white in their coloring. The bird is now 1 year old and is 15' fast H style bird with fair frequency. I would like to see the wings in tighter as the velocity is there but not quite balling up to be considered top quality. A very good bird in the air regardless. Not sure where you are coming from on your post Scott. My question wasn't whether anyone agrees with show classes, just trying to get educated on a aspect of rollers that I have never considered in the past. Enjoy your next fly! Don M.
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Scott
2656 posts
Nov 30, 2009
9:12 PM
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Don, honestly I was just poking fun at shows , I put no value in them what so ever, in fact I think that they are a dangerous where the breed in concerned.
A good example of this is last years show winners vrs fly winners (QSDC) , completly different names from each other. I see the same up here, guys that don't fly winning the show with perfornce "type" show birds.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Nov 30, 2009 9:13 PM
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fhtfire
2246 posts
Nov 30, 2009
9:25 PM
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Mac,
Bull eyed birds have been around since the begining....Now....dont think for a second either that a Bull eyed bird does not roll...I have had bull eyed birds rip...One of my top stock cocks is a 2000 red Baldy that is bulleyed on one side and crack eyed on the other side(half bull)...and it was a stud in the air when Mort had him...I got him again in 03 and flew him for a year and he was 20-40' and was very excellent quality...not my fastest bird but fast enough to stock.....but I feel I have improved over my original stock...so I will say he was fast for the time.....
rock and ROLL
Paul
Oh...he produces faster when you throw a Ruby hen on his ass...
This Mofo is the son to my Red Baldy...this bad boy RIPPED he would have been stocked if mr. hawk did not take him
This bad boy is Pure Ruby and is my foundation cock of my flashover line...he is pure Ruby....I bred and flew him..40' ROCKET..very deep and fast bird.
<
>
Here is my Pure Mort Red Baldy...the hen is also the Mother to the Black bald above.
Last Edited by on Dec 01, 2009 7:59 AM
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macsrollers
235 posts
Nov 30, 2009
9:59 PM
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Nice birds Paul that look like spinners!
Scott, I now know where you are coming from. I am a serious flier that shows the birds for fun and to support the shows. I don't put the time and effort to condition them like they guys that are serious do. I am not knocking those that do as it does take a commitment to get a bird in top show condition. My hope is that what is represented in the show pen stays on track with a true spinning roller. I was much happier to win the best kit bird class as the bird I entered was a top quality spinner and the judge, J.V. Broek recognized that! I think with the ever growing BOP problem more in our hobby are going to be driven in to showing birds so I would rather have them showing Birmingham Rollers then other breeds. For me I am too hooked on flying birds to give that up. I'll have to live with the BOP's until I end up in roller heaven that is BOP free!, hopefully at some point during my time on earth rather then not! Enjoy your next fly! Don M. LVRC
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BA Rollers
298 posts
Nov 30, 2009
10:09 PM
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A bull eye is nothing more than lack of pigment in the eye. This results from (in rollers) a white marking being present on the head area, an expression of the pied bald family of genes. The pie bald (pied, badge, baldhead, etc) marking contain modifiers which eliminates the pigment at the surface (feathers) causing them to turn white (lack of pigment). If the surface-relative "marking" crosses the eye, the iris will also be void of pigment, resulting in a bulleye which is said to be the black color found on the back side of the iris. The surface of the iris when void of pigment is said to become clear which allows the black from the inner iris to become visible.
A bulleye bird still has the same eye and iris it would have if the pigment switch were turned on.
The only thing that makes a bull eye bird inferior is when someone who leans heavily in favor of eye sign labels them as such.
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JBow
134 posts
Nov 30, 2009
11:41 PM
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My friend in hawaii entered some roller in the young bird show. Now this was the Big Fancypigeon show. He ended up winning best in show with a red bald hen. Bull in one eye and pearl in the other. She is a solid 30 fit bird. Jim Bowen
Last Edited by on Dec 01, 2009 12:01 AM
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steve49
347 posts
Dec 01, 2009
1:18 PM
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i haven't shown any birds recently, but have attended two shows in the past two weeks. what is funny is, the judge in the first show never judged rollers before, as he asked a steward if feathered muffs were a fault. what i've seen at these two all breed shows is, if you don't get a knowledgable roller judge, why waste the gas and tolls and time? its sad, but most clubs are trying to fill their bank accounts, not really satisfy the majority of exhibitors, imho. unless you attend a specialty show, where the judge breeds the birds you're showing, you'll seldom get them judged fairly. most of these inexperienced judges are trying, but they simply don't have the knowledge for this breed. i should also add the shows were 'flying roller' classes, no show rollers at all.
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Steve in Blue Point, NY
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Velo99
2227 posts
Dec 01, 2009
2:12 PM
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I enter 4-5 birds in our local all breed show just for fun. I pull em out of the kit box bathe em and feed em up for a couple of days. I took the best performer for the second time in three years Saturday. There were about 20 rollers. I know the guys flys the birds. One guy just hasnt gotten around to competetion yet. The other guy is strictly a backyard guy we have tried to involve in our club. He just isnt interested. Ferrel Bussing was the judge.
He drove over with Bob Anderson to have some fun with us for a day. After the show we went out and looked at Bruces loft and birds. Did some bird swapping and told some lies about how great our birds are.
The troop went over to my house and flew a kit and looked at my operation, and flew a kit. The kit was pretty decent for a few minutes then flattened out. Overall it was a good time especially when I won the plaque against the other performing breeds.
I guess the point of this ramble is that the best type of roller won the show. Ferrell saw this bird fly as a YB in the WC and got to handle it and gave it the award it deserved. Another plus is the fact I met another pretty cool roller guy in our area but not our region. Those pesky state lines...
Hey Billings,the winner is a 20-30 footer H style medium frequency who was almost a cull til she matured and I flew the crap out of her.
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V99
blue sky single beat
in cadance performing now
earth beckons the winged
drawn breath is let quickly forth
orchestral movement follows
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\__\_/-|_| \__\____
/()_)__14___()_)\__\
Last Edited by on Dec 01, 2009 2:18 PM
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pigeon pete
443 posts
Dec 01, 2009
4:05 PM
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Even in the roller club shows, a bull eyed pigeon would have to be entered in the 'eye fault' class.
Of course the color of the eyes don't affect the roll, but a pigeon show is a beauty contest, and even the roller clubs run more or less to National Pigeon club rules. I never saw an eye fault bird get considered for best in show, but I think we relaxed that rule recently in my club.
The Wolverhampton tumbler a breed that is kept for showing, and a split eye is considered the breed standard!
Pete.
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Spin City USA
270 posts
Dec 01, 2009
10:17 PM
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Kind of hard to see that bull eye on a spinner at 300 feet. And the purpose is to raise and fly.......proper spinners
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They gotta Spin to win.....Jay
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JBow
136 posts
Dec 01, 2009
10:50 PM
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Pete is there a standard for flying roller? Jim
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pigeon pete
445 posts
Dec 02, 2009
3:12 AM
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Hi Jim,
The only standard I know of for a flying roller is the one we all know and has nothing to do with showing. many fancy pigeon shows put classes on for flying breeds, but the genuine flyer will always struggle against show fanciers who keep 'flying types' to show, as opposed to flyig rollers that get shown occasionally.
The standard is the judges opinion and that's it. but generally speaking, bull or odd eyes,(unless there are specific classes) any physical defect, feather faults, dirt, or passengers will get you disregarded if not removed from the cages.
Birds closer to the beauty side will win over down faced birds. some regard to flying type may be made so that a small or medium bird will win over a too large pigeon. In the past I've taken birds to the big shows and showed in flying roller classes, and the winners didn't look like they ever went outside never mind flown. On the other hand, in the 80's the difference between the flying type and the show roller was not so great and I got cards against pure show rollers (usually under a judge that was a flyer).
I remember getting a second place in a large class of self hens, at a championship show, all the other birds were show rollers. The class judge was George Mason.
Since then 'they' have crossed the show rollers with other breeds to alter them so that they now look like a different breed. I heard one judge discussing a bird of mine and him saying to his steward that it was too light, he said "I bet it's being flown" and he shook his head as though it was a sin,lol
Pete.
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