nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3982 posts
Dec 27, 2009
2:12 PM
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If the breeder you are buying or receiving from has to breed 100 to get 20 good ones; don't expect more success than that. Some of us tend to think because the breeder shows good birds in the roll and does well in competition that everything you have from him is 100% to the good......not true.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
Last Edited by on Dec 27, 2009 3:14 PM
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mikea
36 posts
Dec 27, 2009
2:22 PM
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nick
I thank if you get 20 out of 100 and grading with a
open mind you are doing good. Or at least I would
be. mike allen
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birdman
769 posts
Dec 27, 2009
3:10 PM
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C'mon Nick, You don't speak for everybody with those type of blanket statements.
Who is "We" ???
I don't think that way, or know anybody that thinks that way except for the newbies, the uninformed, and the pedigree chasers.
But I understand the point you are trying to make. Any bird I get from someone else is just 'potential' until tested and proven.
Russ
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3983 posts
Dec 27, 2009
3:18 PM
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Okay Russ, I changed it(LOL). Much of what I say is for the new guy; the uninformed; and the chasers of pedigrees. I know that you cannot buy a winning kit and I am finding there are many who believe you can.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3984 posts
Dec 27, 2009
3:21 PM
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Hey Mike, I agree with you. Only the top notch breeders and fliers can have a 20% success rate. The rest of us have to settle with less. It takes a long time to put together a family that will give you a 20% success rate.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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birdman
770 posts
Dec 27, 2009
3:33 PM
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I knew what you were trying to say Nick, just funning with you....lol
And I might add that personally out of 100 birds bred I might only find 1 or 2 that I would rate a cut above the rest of good ones but if they can't reproduce themselves or better then they are just eye candy for the kit.
Russ
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Scott
2744 posts
Dec 27, 2009
3:46 PM
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I think that many think that they are buying breeders or stock birds when they pick up birds..few real true blue breeders are actualy sold or given.
You "MUST" find them on your own..and it takes a few years to even realize the true value of a bird in stock..and sometimes it is the ones that you don't expect.
As for the 20 good one's out of a 100 ..honestly I have yet to have 20 good ones by the end of the following Spring which is the true tell tale of a breeding season...at least not what I consider good one's.. but I do have a solid A-team I am looking forward to going into the W.C. with that I am pretty tickled about... It took me 3 years for this team to get to this point...it is also worth mention that I have gone into very few major flys with a team that I am pleased with.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Dec 27, 2009 3:53 PM
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viper
72 posts
Dec 27, 2009
4:50 PM
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It comes down to the flyer and the birds he chooses and how he flys.I like strong birds with miles of heart and guts the weak over freg ones that can't take it don't last long.But don't start wacking them to early you still have to give them a fair chance.
Blake
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rtwilliams
GOLD MEMBER
548 posts
Dec 27, 2009
5:12 PM
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I was feeling bad about my Sucesses or failures in breeding until I read this, Thanks for giving me hope. In 08 I bed 25 birds, I found 1 worth stocking. Out of 100 hundred I would have gotten 4. Not bad for a newbie, I guess.
I bred and recieved some help this year to get to 100. I hope that I get 20 good ones form the lot. I expect if I do it will be form the help of others. Thanks Jon Farr, and Bob Adams.
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RT Williams
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3986 posts
Dec 27, 2009
8:22 PM
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The 20 good bird thing is all about 20 good kit birds only. Good enough for the breeding loft is another thing.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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Scott
2745 posts
Dec 27, 2009
8:36 PM
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Nick.. anything that I consider good I consider good for the stock loft performance wise.. other wise they would be ..well no good.. but there are many other things that keep them out of stock for one reason or another.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
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viper
77 posts
Dec 27, 2009
8:37 PM
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You could be given the winning kit from the NBRC or W\C and never repeat better chance than some but nil.
Not all good birds produce themselves or better.Not everyone flys the same or feeds the same.You will get out of them what you put into them sometimes.
Blake
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2259 posts
Dec 28, 2009
6:19 AM
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Nick
A few years back, I heard that the NBRC average was 10% of the bird raised "were" good Rollers. With the ever increasing numbers of BOP, and how they seem to take the best, the "average" could be even less today. The better the breeder, the higher the average percentage of better rollers. Soon it make also may hinge on how bad the BOP are in the breeders area. A skilled breeder with few BOP should have a distinct advantage over the rest of us, raising a better percentage of good Rollers. Luck and skill will go along way to help a flyer be successful.
Cliff
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Scott Coe
16 posts
Dec 30, 2009
5:27 AM
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I'am new to the game,what is your average Nick?
Last Edited by on Dec 30, 2009 5:36 AM
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fhtfire
2382 posts
Dec 30, 2009
9:23 AM
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Nick...please define good ones...are you talking excellent kit birds...good enough for the A and B team....My numbers have been pretty high the last couple of years...last year I bred about 90 birds for myself in 09..because I had to fill perch space from some overflys....right now...out of those 90...I have 18 in the B-team....and about 8 in the A-team...and to be honest...the B-team and A-team are pretty equal right now..but the A-team is deeper...The C-team has about 17 that could go in the B-team right now....so far so good...in 08....I bred about 70 birds and out of those 70...not counting my overfly..I lost 12 from my Fall Fly team....and I have about 10 in my A-team still...from the replacement team...and I Sold 4 to Mookie out of my A-team...and stocked 3... to be continued
rock and ROLL
Paul
Last Edited by on Dec 30, 2009 5:01 PM
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pacos bill
109 posts
Dec 30, 2009
3:44 PM
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I get about 1% stocking rate. And for the kits only about 5% make the grade.
I am trying an out cross to the line this year.
What is the average percentage you guys are getting?
Pacos Bill
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3995 posts
Dec 30, 2009
3:53 PM
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Paul, Good ones are those that spin with good form; good velocity; and depth that is at least scorable. They are suited for an A-Team.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3996 posts
Dec 30, 2009
4:00 PM
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Scott Coe, My average is less than 20%; I really don't have a handle on just how much it actually is. I can assure you that it is not 20%. As for birds I would stock it would probably be two or three of a hundred
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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fhtfire
2389 posts
Dec 30, 2009
4:52 PM
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My average based on what I have bred for myself and flown out...not counting the BOP that snagged one when it was mature or the overfly here and there...and with assumptions that the birds in the overfly that were a year old would hold it together..I would say ..Hell I will use my 08 numbers.....
I think I bred for myself pretty close to 70 birds...or so...I had an overfly and lost 12 08 and they were all over a year old....I then bumped up my B-team..whick actually beat the A-team in the Fall fly...and there were 20-08...then I bumped my B-team up to my A-team..I had to add 15 birds...from my B-team...I then moved 15 up from my C to B..and they were just younger....I had to cull a couple...pulled for stock 3.....sold Mookie 4....ok...Out of 70 birds I bred for myself....42 made it to be good to excellent kit bird..Most of my 08 in my A-team now are from the 15 I moved up from my C-team...3 for stock and 4 to Mookie...out of my A-team..that was actually my B-team....um..LOL....kidding...I would say 42 out of 70 were good or excellent birds...the rest I either culled..had a couple roll downs...hawk or two..or I just dont know what happened to them..LOL..or I gave a bird away here or there or sent to an auction as a donation...so the percentage of good kit birds is 60%
So I am getting 60% good or excellent kit birds....and out of 70 for stock I pulled 4.2% or 3 birds for stock...it would have been 7...but the 4 I sold Mookie I would have stocked.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Bill C
463 posts
Dec 30, 2009
5:29 PM
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Nick, I agree with you on educating the new guys. I do feel that for the most part, what you see at a guys house flying birds is what you are going to get if you stick with the program. That is, I have told several guys that they need to get birds for a few years from the same guy and fly out birds and not just buy a few or one kit and fly them out and be good from there on out. It take three or four years to build a good kit and it will take the new guy just as long. Even longer if he is not going to continue with the same birds and get more of them down the road.
There is the other side to this also. That is some including myself had helped out new guys with good birds only to have them stop, bail out and get out of the hobby in just one or two years later. We have about 2 guys out of 10 that get birds in our area that actually stay in the hobby. I also had a new guy that I had loaned a good cock to that never returned the bird. So you do not know that a new guy has good intentions and has patience enough to work the birds for several years and stay with it through the politics and head ache of BOP and such things. So the new guys need to befriend a roller man and be patient and hang in there. Bill C
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STUDENT 2 THE GAME
177 posts
Dec 30, 2009
10:13 PM
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Bill, Im hanging in there ...thanks to few good roller men like yourself........
Larry
Make It Rain Loft/N.C.R.C
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fhtfire
2400 posts
Dec 30, 2009
10:16 PM
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Larry...give me your number again..I tried to call and it did not work..dont be a stranger...you dont owe me money...LOL...
rock and ROLL
Paul
I am off Friday Sat Sun Mon..if you want to come over..let me know!!
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STUDENT 2 THE GAME
179 posts
Dec 30, 2009
10:34 PM
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Sup P just been low key tryin to soak up some of this info on here... (916)289-4615
hey Im off Monday thru Monday LoL
Larry
Make it Rain Loft/N.C.R.C.
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