Scott Coe
17 posts
Dec 30, 2009
6:33 AM
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Just a simple QUESTION? What is the average rate of stockable birds per 100, in your loft?
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Scott
2762 posts
Dec 30, 2009
7:06 AM
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I have found that it depends on how low or high a particular flyers standards are...some have very low standards (check wing position thread)and many think that just because it rolls alot that it is stockable.
What I'm getting at is you won't get apples to oranges on such a question .
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
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Hector Coya
589 posts
Dec 30, 2009
7:45 AM
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I try to stock 2 birds every year,If i get that im doing good,i breed about 300.
the 2 i stock may or may not be the best that year
but they are the best alive that year.
which that sends us to the other thread,stocking from the nest.
Hector Coya-SGVS
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The more i know mankind,the more i love my Dog,
Last Edited by on Dec 30, 2009 7:47 AM
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2282 posts
Dec 30, 2009
9:03 AM
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I find that I am able to stock about 3 to 5 out of any given year from my two comp teams after they have flown for two years.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Dec 30, 2009 9:03 AM
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fhtfire
2380 posts
Dec 30, 2009
9:15 AM
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It depends on the year...in 04 I stocked 1 cock...06 my highest year I stocked 5 or 6...I usually breed about 100 birds a year...first round is sold no matter what or given away like this year...then I donate to numerous auctions..and usually a round at the end I will sell...so for myself..I usually breed about 40-60 birds....in 08 I bred around 70 for myself and stocked 4 birds.......so again..depends on the year.
rock and ROLL
Paul
Last Edited by on Dec 30, 2009 5:48 PM
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donnie james
855 posts
Dec 30, 2009
11:46 AM
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hay scott,
i raise 50 birds a year and i usely stock 3-5 birds and i always fly them out until their 18 months old..........
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Donny James
"Fly The Best And Cull The Rest"
"Saying One Thing;Doing Its Another"
"Keep Your Head Planted In The Sky And Wings Spanned Wide"
1996 Piedmont Roller Club Lifetime Achievement Recipient
Portsmouth Roller Club Participation Award System Recipient 1994 '96 '97 And 2000
2001 Limestone,Ohio Sportsman's Club Lifetime Member Recipient
2002Portsmouth Roller Club Certified Judge
2004Portsmouth Roller Club Lifetime Member Recipient
"Miss Portsmouth"NBRC/90/J311 Rusty Dun Check Self Hen First Bird To Get Certified In Portsmouth Roller Club History With A Score Of 53 Judge By Joe Roe The 1993 World Cup Winner And John Bender The 1994 World Cup Winner
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wishiwon2
257 posts
Dec 30, 2009
1:11 PM
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Question is 'stockable' - I get 3 or 4 out of 100 that in my opinion are stockable annualy. I may actually stock more or less depending on what I need.
I raise 20-30 out of 100 that I feel are worthy of competing with at a high level.
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Jon
If it were easy, everybody would do it
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babyshoes
32 posts
Dec 30, 2009
8:05 PM
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This is a question ,Not a Dig .
Why is it i read that most not all breed 20%to30%of good rollers and they are happy, So My question is What are you feeding the other birds for ,the balance of the kit and there parents ,i have never in my life breed less that 65% ,and i have spoken to many fancies and they all breed above 60% some 80% and 90%,
Just wondering as i can understand a newbie with results as low as 20%and 30% , but not a fancier who has been in the game over 5 yrs .and Please this is not a dig at anyone .
Regards RON
Last Edited by on Dec 30, 2009 8:06 PM
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Hector Coya
591 posts
Dec 30, 2009
8:19 PM
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Ron,as for me i said i would stock 2 or 3,but that dosnt mean the the others dont roll good,they may roll real good but if you have 100 rolling good you will have to look for the best 3 out of those,the rest will continue in the kit.
Hector Coya-SGVS
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winwardrollers
383 posts
Dec 30, 2009
8:24 PM
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Ron
You must be talking about... show birds to have 65%-90% success rate. Birds that are bred for feather, color, confirmation.
bwinward
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babyshoes
33 posts
Dec 30, 2009
8:26 PM
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Ok Hector i am getting what the gist is, so you only stocked 3 for yourself out of 100 ,that is what i said there are exceptions and maybe i am not reading into the story right , but what i do read, is that they say they are happy if they get 20% good kit birds then they are happy, so youare saying besides your 3 you stocked there are lots more that could be stock birds .Regards Ron
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babyshoes
34 posts
Dec 30, 2009
8:28 PM
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NO bwinward i have breed rollers 45 yrs and have never showed a pigeon in my life ,i am talking quality birds that were stockable ,
REgards Ron
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winwardrollers
384 posts
Dec 30, 2009
8:44 PM
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Ron
You stated.."so you are saying besides your 3 you stocked there are lots more that could be stock birds .Regards Ron"
Only three are stockable...a handful of the hundred will fly in the hold over kit. The rest are to grow flower's in you yards with, feed your pet alligator, things like that..
Where did you get your start of rollers 45 years ago?
bwinward
Last Edited by on Dec 30, 2009 8:49 PM
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fhtfire
2393 posts
Dec 30, 2009
8:45 PM
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Babyshoes,
I just did my math and I get 65% good to excellent kit birds and 4.2% make the stock loft....Out of 70 birds bred I had 42 birds that were good to excellent kit birds.....that was for 08...now I did sell 4 birds to a buddy named Mookie that I would have stocked...I let him pick out of my A-team...I did have an overfly and lost 12 08 out of my A-team...and 2 or 3 of those I had marked for stock and they were 14 months old when I lost them....08 was one of my best years and I could have stocked 10 that year...that showed every aspect..Speed Depth Quality as well as kitting like glue...7 of these birds as young birds skipped the B-team all together and went straight to the A-team...and flew with the A-team from about 6 months old to about 15-16 months old...and never missed a beat...
rock and ROLL
Paul
I dont know why numbers seem to be so low for some...I honestly dont cull very often...but bare in mind..these are solid kit birds....not stockable birds...anyway...
Last Edited by on Dec 30, 2009 8:47 PM
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winwardrollers
385 posts
Dec 30, 2009
8:52 PM
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Paul
The post is about stockable birds..
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Hector Coya
592 posts
Dec 30, 2009
8:58 PM
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Ron
I stocked 3 becouse 3 is what i needed.
The rest will fly in the kit,as long as they kit good and theres no better pushing them out.
I dont get rid of old breeders that often,some of my breeders are over 10 and upto 16 years old,so it dont matter how good they are in the air i dont have room to stock more,do i breed more than 3 stockable birds a year,i whould like to think so.
Now my standards my be diferent than the next guymbut i do feel i breed a good % of stockable birds.
Hector Coya-SGVS
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Scott
2768 posts
Dec 30, 2009
9:10 PM
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Talk to me early November and I would tell you that my percentagezs of good kit birds are high.... check back with me the following late the Spring once everything shakes out and I know what I really have, the reality is if I even got 20 percent good kit birds I would be a happy camper... but then I cull my culls..and many of those culls are rolling...doesn't make them any less a cull though.
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Scott Campbell
Last Edited by on Dec 30, 2009 9:12 PM
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fhtfire
2396 posts
Dec 30, 2009
9:13 PM
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Brad....
Geez..you have a hard on for me or what....re-read my post....4.2% ARE STOCKABLE and that is what I stocked..3 out of 70...then I went out to explain that I could have stocked 10 that year and it was the best year....and then for some new guys..I explained that most of my stockable birds skipped the B-team altogether....so they could get a clear understanding that a stockable bird is SPECIAL....and then I was adding to Rons post that I get 65% good to excellent birds myself..
Why do you KEEP shooting over my bow!!!
rock and ROLL
Paul
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fhtfire
2397 posts
Dec 30, 2009
9:21 PM
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Scott,
Brad is going to get you....THE POST WAS FOR STOCKABLE....anyway...you get more then 20% good solid kit birds..come Scott..do the math...you breed 100 birds you can only have one solid team...I dont believe that...we are not talking cream of the crop..If you are talking the cream of the crop..not quite stockable but right there...I am at around 15-20%..and then good sixth men..or birds that are not an ooooo aahhhhhh birds but good performers day in and day out....those are the higher percentage numbers...Scott I know better...quit being coy...you get good numbers if you didnt you would not be where you are at...we both dont breed a whole lot of birds.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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babyshoes
35 posts
Dec 30, 2009
9:22 PM
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Here is my point Scott why do you have culls ,i do not no how many birds you breed, but i will definitly not be happy with 20%, as paul said his were good to exellent, and for a begginer those may well be excellent stock birds.so my point is you may well have to breed a 100 to get 20 good ones in my opinion that is not a good average .Maybe you should be focussing on the stock that breed you that 20%.
Regards Ron
Last Edited by on Dec 30, 2009 9:23 PM
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Scott
2769 posts
Dec 30, 2009
9:30 PM
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I'm not yanking anyones chain.. if I ended up with those I higher percentages I would say so.. but I don't... obviously you guys have me beat.. but I will say this.. if I did get those percentages of what "I" consider good one's I would be unbeatable.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
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Scott
2770 posts
Dec 30, 2009
9:47 PM
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We changed the topic you snowbound hillbilly .. be nice to my Pirate !! LOL
(Paul
The post is about stockable birds.. )
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winwardrollers
386 posts
Dec 30, 2009
10:12 PM
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I think everyone is ready for the spring to come and we can get off these computers and have some real fun.
I spent the day snow blowing snow ..6 inches..By the way this is off the topic it not a problem went I do it.. just you guy's..lol
Bwinward
Last Edited by on Dec 30, 2009 10:15 PM
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fhtfire
2398 posts
Dec 30, 2009
10:13 PM
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Ok Scott..glad I talked to you on the phone....what one man thinks is a good bird another does not...to Scott a good kit bird is one that is either stockable or close to it...all others dont fit the bill...Now if I am on the same page as Scott...the total oooo ahh birds....my percentage would be in the 15-20% range just like my last post....and stockable would still be 4-8%...but those numbers change year after year..08 was one of my best years...so to all the new fliers...remember that one on person says is good may not be on the same level as another flier....ok...
rock and ROLL
Paul
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fhtfire
2399 posts
Dec 30, 2009
10:15 PM
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Brad...
Tell me about it..but I am still flying...the BOP issue has not been as bad this year for me since I closed up my loft so the BOP cant see any pigeons...anyway....My A-team was firing on all cyclinders a couple days ago....I felt real good because they are a little fat and out of shape..LOL..
rock and ROLL
Paul
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winwardrollers
387 posts
Dec 30, 2009
10:29 PM
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This is when I lose most of my young kit birds to dumb things, during the storms that come through. They have to be feed decent to make it through the winter then you are itching to fly when the weather clears and the birds are a bit to strong and feel good and want to stay up.
The old birds seem to find it home in the dark..it is just the young birds that give me the problems in cloudy skies if I am not careful. I like to fly them through differant weather to see what they are made of..some guys will not do this and I can see good reasoning in that to..they have their birds and I don't come spring.
bwinward
Last Edited by on Dec 30, 2009 10:32 PM
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babyshoes
36 posts
Dec 30, 2009
11:54 PM
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bwinward when i say i would stock 3 birds and the other were stockable , you dont seem to understand or dont wont to, the rest that is stockable is equal to the 3 i stocked , and just for your info your smart remarks are not appreciated. (flower beds , and aligotors) Regards Ron
Last Edited by on Dec 30, 2009 11:55 PM
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babyshoes
37 posts
Dec 30, 2009
11:57 PM
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bwinward and 45 yrs ago i got my start of pigeons from fanciers you would not even know ,i am from South Africa JFYI
Regards Ron
Last Edited by on Dec 30, 2009 11:58 PM
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Scott Coe
20 posts
Dec 31, 2009
1:55 AM
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Thanks for the input, scott you were right no apples to oranges on the question. But it's the the way thought is provocted, and dialoge is established.
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Scott
2771 posts
Dec 31, 2009
8:45 AM
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Paul..remember that blue bar that I pointed out at your house ? that is what I consider worthy of keeping and A -team material.
Why do you think Monty Nieble said that loosing his main team back 3 years ?
Three time World cup winner Heine Bieker (sp) told me that he breeds 6 a year worth keeping the 2nd time he was here staying with me.
What goes in the A-team very well should roll with stock quality..or close to it (filling such is the hard part)... but that doesn't mean that they are stockable either.
What stinks is we have to fly what we have..and I know myself I have tried to sneak lesser birds in to fill holes many, many, times...but you don't fill them with junk that sticks out like a sore thumb either.
The problem is when you get a good judge with a critical eye.. he will nail you on it.
This happened with me when John Weins judged the WC finals..I tried to sneek in three birds that came out of the roll a little funky most of the time (culls)..the team was decent that day but he hammered me due to it and pointed it out.. but I gambled and got caught..ended like in 12th or so.
And I have to be honest..it is rare that I go into the finals with what I consider a good team...a good team will score under ANY judge not just the santa claus one's.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Dec 31, 2009 8:49 AM
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wishiwon2
260 posts
Dec 31, 2009
9:23 AM
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Ron said, "i read that most not all breed 20%to30%of good rollers and they are happy".
Ron, I'm not contented with 20-30%, I want better. But I think that if we set high enough standards for our birds that 50% would be an outstanding percentage. There are just so many variables to these birds that can prevent them from being great. I have particular pairs that produce in the range of 80% good-excellent rollers, but not as a loft as a whole.
"What are you feeding the other birds for ,the balance of the kit and there parents"
The kitbirds I am not feeding anymore, some of the parents as well. Kitbirds have a year to show me something worthwhile to keep them. I cull bad behaviors along the way. Some of those that get culled because of bad behaviors are outstanding spinners but the faults are inexcusable. A few of the parents that didnt produce what I wanted have gone back into the kit. Some of them I culled out, others I continue to try different matings to improve the results.
Sincerely, I have not heard of anyone I know and respect that raises near the percentages you cited. What bloodline of birds do you have? If they can produce like that at the standard I expect, I want some, seriously. Like Scott said earlier, "if I did get those percentages of what "I" consider good one's I would be unbeatable."
Jon
If it were easy, everybody would do it
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babyshoes
38 posts
Dec 31, 2009
10:31 AM
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Jon there are a lot of fancies who breed those averages , and you wont find them on this board or as matter of fact very seldom on any board , their are several in the US and canada and lots in South Africa and england ,
Regards Ron
feel free to give me an email giron@charter.net
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Scott Coe
24 posts
Dec 31, 2009
10:45 AM
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Thanks for the call the otherday it was nice to your input and about your new birds. when you get them flying i would love to drive over and see them.
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babyshoes
39 posts
Dec 31, 2009
11:21 AM
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Scott, it was good visiting with you too, we will keep in touch.
Regards Ron
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Scott
2772 posts
Dec 31, 2009
11:59 AM
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Ron
Brad..this is about it in a nutshell... where do you keep your aligator? I must have missed it.
(Only three are stockable...a handful of the hundred will fly in the hold over kit. The rest are to grow flower's in you yards with, feed your pet alligator, things like that..)
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
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babyshoes
40 posts
Dec 31, 2009
12:09 PM
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Scott i do not have one , so i think he is thinking of someone else or is just confused.
Regards Ron
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fhtfire
2405 posts
Dec 31, 2009
12:18 PM
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I thought he was talking to me Ron...He has been firing shots over my bow too....but I dont have an alligator either...I divorced her two years ago..>LOL>>LOL...You dont want to shoot shots over the bow of a PIRATE..I am damn near ready to raise the skull and cross bones flag...LOL...but I am a nice Pirate..ask Scott...LOL
Rock and ROLL
Paul
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fhtfire
2406 posts
Dec 31, 2009
12:20 PM
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Scott that Blue Bar is stocked and this is her second year of breeding..so we will see!!
rock and ROLL
Paul
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winwardrollers
391 posts
Jan 01, 2010
8:35 AM
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I forgot I even posted.
Baby shoes I was simple asking you questions so that I could understand you better.
I ask a simple question "Where did you get your start of rollers 45 years ago?"
I am trying figure out what base family your rollers came from that have such High percentages.
I have worked with my family of rollers for a number of year and birds simply don't go out of here. I feel after 13 years that I am still working on them and don't want to pass junk down to someone else.
The comment about flowers and aligators had nothing to do with you personally I pick those works randomly to state that they end up as culls and not past off to someone else. I would guess they are at less as good as the birds you are talking about with your high percentages. Look at what Hiene Bieker judge my birds for quality and depth on the Worldcupfly in 05 or 06. I ended up 37th the birds were terrible that day because I messed with them. If he gave me as high as quality and depth as the winner on a bad day I would have like to see what I would have gotten on a normal day. There is many other judge's that have been here and done the same but he is the only International Judge.
I would like to know like.. Jon who stated above..
Sincerely, I have not heard of anyone I know and respect that raises near the percentages you cited. What bloodline of birds do you have? If they can produce like that at the standard I expect, I want some, seriously. Like Scott said earlier, "if I did get those percentages of what "I" consider good one's I would be unbeatable."
I would be interested..babeshoes..you have my full attention.
Bwinward
Last Edited by on Jan 01, 2010 7:19 PM
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gotspin7
2621 posts
Jan 01, 2010
8:52 AM
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babyshoes, you got mine too.... You can reach me at gotspin7@yahoo.com
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Salvador Ortiz
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Hector Coya
593 posts
Jan 01, 2010
9:26 AM
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I'm very happy with the percent i get,Some people loose 6 birds a year the the Falcons and still complain about there percents,that's sad.
I bred 300 birds in 09,i now have 23 in my holdover kit,that's it no other kit,my other 3 boxes are empty.
Let me tell you if i lost 6 birds a year,I would be unbeatable,,
I have 2 Falcons,(all year)1 Gosshowk on occasion,^ coopers (everyday) and 3 redtails at least hitting twice a week.
With all that im still flying monthly club flys and any other fly around.
But the percent is good,i get lots of roll,not all outstanding but lots of roll,i don't have to cull,because by the time lock down comes around i only have the once that where rolling.
Last March i started flying to prepare for the W/C pree.
which is in April,in one month i only had 4 holdover birds left.
So if i didn't have the good percent,i would of gave up.
Hector Coya-SGVS
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winwardrollers
392 posts
Jan 01, 2010
9:49 AM
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Hector
Now sure were on this planet where there is not BOP.
bwinward
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Scott
2780 posts
Jan 01, 2010
9:51 AM
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Hector.. near all of the birds I breed roll.. that isn't what determines my percentages though.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
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Hector Coya
595 posts
Jan 01, 2010
9:55 AM
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Winwardroller
As strange as it may be,i know people close by that have only lost 6 to 10 birds a year.i would take that anyday.
Hector Coya
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Hector Coya
596 posts
Jan 01, 2010
9:58 AM
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I understand Scott,but with my losses i still get to breed at least 2 outstanding birds a year,and that's loosing at least 125 that never made it to maturity to roll,so that percent could of been better.
Hector Coya-SGVS
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winwardrollers
393 posts
Jan 01, 2010
10:12 AM
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Hector
With 300 Birds in the air you maybe creating your own problem. I don't know how anyone can keep track of that many birds. 300 birds minus 125 still give you 175 bird to work with.
bwinward
Last Edited by on Jan 01, 2010 10:22 AM
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3509 posts
Jan 01, 2010
10:26 AM
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300 birds Hector ,what are you a feather merchant..lol.j/k..with all of those BOP hits you get Hector I'm surprise you still in the game..good luck this year...
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Ralph.
Pigeons are not our whole life, but they damn sure make our lives whole!" ~
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winwardrollers
394 posts
Jan 01, 2010
10:40 AM
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Babeshoes give us some more info. or start another post. You have alot of us interested,
Bwinward
Last Edited by on Jan 01, 2010 10:44 AM
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babyshoes
43 posts
Jan 01, 2010
3:44 PM
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Winward i will show you what i am trying to say , i am starting birds this yr 2010,
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winwardrollers
395 posts
Jan 01, 2010
7:20 PM
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Good
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