Square
786 posts
Jan 22, 2010
11:01 AM
|
I am starting this topic as most of us are not flying and I know for me I end up in my loft lookin and running number for hours...LOL My question is this, how do you build your kit??? If you are lucky enough to have hold overs or new squeekers once you gettum going "Flying and Rolling" how do you build the kit/stackum? How many 15footers,20 footers, and so on.. How many fillers? you know the birds that probally shouldent be in there LOL.Do you do half and half young and old?? I know that some of us just roll the dice based on the losses and other bad deals.So im basically asking those that fly kits on a regular,,or on a regular have to get their birds back in shape after a long lockdown.For me over the years Ive really havent had a whole kit held over,, The most was 15in 08 12 last year, this year its about 35. The way I build my kit is I start with 5 not even my best five and I use them as my "platform" I add 2 birds a week and just keep adding and or subtracting based on teamwork. This is based on holdovers. Young birds will eventually go trough this process if they maket it a year. So how do you doit?
Booker
----------
"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
|
JMUrbon
866 posts
Jan 22, 2010
10:00 PM
|
Man Paul you have got to learn to give an abriged version. I truely am interested in this post but find myself on alot of your posts losing interest after a couple paragraphs. I think the world of ya and apreciate what you have to give but you are loosing my interest in alot of your posts.
Mark you will find that alot of times your best birds are not your best kit birds. Never forget that above all we are building a team and there is no I in team. If they dont work with the team they dont get to play with the team. Joe
PS. Paul You should have been an author.LOL. Joe
----------
J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
Last Edited by on Jan 22, 2010 10:56 PM
|
Square
793 posts
Jan 25, 2010
9:25 AM
|
Thanx Bro's, for the input,, I know I get super longwinded at times...LOL thats because i wanna get my point across and have "PooP" for writing skills.. Yea paul alot of good info there and its good to here someone start's off with a small "Platform" to build a kit around... And Joe I hear ya 100%, I have a few birds that I realized are great rollers/spinners just choose alittle more freewill so to speak, and the performance is well worth it... Thanx again for yougises input,, as I got what I was lookin for,,,, or should I say Valadition of my own program.....
Booker.
----------
"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
|
gotspin7
2629 posts
Jan 27, 2010
8:13 PM
|
Booker, it takes years and patience! Lot's of patience!
----------
Salvador Ortiz
|
Square
803 posts
Jan 28, 2010
10:35 AM
|
Yea gotcha,Sal Im not messing with the flyers for now.. I plucked everything last month that helps me with the whole patence thing..LOL other than that just put three more pairs down includding that Sandoval Cockbird.. Hay by the way,, was that enough info I gave you off the Pedegree????
----------
"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
|
gotspin7
2630 posts
Jan 28, 2010
10:57 AM
|
Booker, you have the wrong Sal bro. I am out here in Arkansas and don't know what Sandoval you are talking about. I am glad you made a good decesion on your kit birds, I have done the same in the past . It works too! Lol. Good luck with your program! ---------- Salvador Ortiz
|
gotspin7
2631 posts
Jan 28, 2010
11:02 AM
|
Booker, you have the wrong Sal bro. I am out here in Arkansas and don't know what Sandoval you are talking about. I am glad you made a good decesion on your kit birds, I have done the same in the past . It works too! Lol. Good luck with your program! ---------- Salvador Ortiz
|
Square
804 posts
Jan 28, 2010
11:07 AM
|
Yea I got ya I confused you with someone else..Thanx for the input The bird I was talkin bout is from Jhon Sandoval C.A.. Good luck in 2010..
----------
"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
|
155
1175 posts
Jan 28, 2010
3:08 PM
|
i'm with gotspin7, you have to do your homework and work just take your time bro
----------
JOSE JIMENEZ AKA EVILLOFT'S
-MESA,ARIZONA-
|
Bill C
480 posts
Jan 28, 2010
10:31 PM
|
The best advice i got was to fly four birds at a time, different colors or mark two checks with a cut tail or something similar. Now you can really see the ones doing the clean and qualtiy rolling that are A team qualtiy. It really helped me to improve my game. I used to try and follow a bird down only to lose it time and again. This is what you do. Get a cold beer or glass of ice tea and sit back on a nice day and fly all your birds four at a time. Put special coil rings on the feet of the good birds so you can tell them apart if they trap into another kit. I have accidently done that, the day or two before a comp fly and had birds trap into a A team while I was feeding them I opened the trap to let light in. I told the judge I was flying 18 birds and two culls and they were the out birds that trapped in before I realized what had happened. Bill C
Last Edited by on Jan 28, 2010 10:32 PM
|
wishiwon2
286 posts
Jan 29, 2010
1:48 PM
|
For young birds, I try to keep them togehter with kitmates that are on the same level. The following are a couple considerations when building a team for competition. For just training or maintainence flying I do things slightly different for a variety of reasons.
It is rare that I find a young bird that fits well into the feeding and flying practices required by an old bird team long term. I have had lots that could do it for a week or 2 or 3, but couldnt hang full time until they matured a little more. Most young birds need a bit more fly time and feed to maintain themselves and keep up the top quality performance than what I give my old birds. That said ... each fall about 25%-50% of my competition teams are young birds from that yr. But by WC it is usually a different set of birds that make-up the A-team.
Ill assemble 25-30 of those I think are my best quality spinners. Then I do like Paul described and watch a few individuals each flight. If the team breaks mid-size to big, I watch for which birds didnt go in the break. If I notice the same ones doing that over several flights, I pull them. I also watch for birds rolling on their own schedule, I'll pull them too. I want the team working together. I like to have my team basically set-up by 3 weeks prior to fly day. I believe it helps them to learn to work together, know each their place/position in the kit, it gives me time to identify any that might be a potential problem.
Lastly, Ill practice judge them a few times. If I notice any bird that stands out from the rest, or my eye keeps being drawn to any individual, I make absolutely sure that bird is real good. If it is anything less it comes out. I dont want a single bird making a subconcious impression on a judge, I want him to make a judgement on the team, as he should. If I have bird that stands out and is weak in anyway, it has potential to influence the judgement.
Booker asked, "how do you build the kit/stackum? How many 15footers,20 footers, and so on.. How many fillers? you know the birds that probally shouldent be in there LOL.Do you do half and half young and old?"
I prefer a range of depths but I dont like it when the variation is extreme between deepest and shortest. They all need to be capable of a scorable performance. I know they arent machines, some will have off days, but I have to have confidence they can do it most the time. I dont use fillers anymore, I have done it in the past and it almost always cost me. I would rather fly 15 solid performers than put in birds that shouldnt be there to fill up 20.
----------
Jon
If it were easy, everybody would do it
Last Edited by on Jan 29, 2010 1:54 PM
|
Bill C
481 posts
Jan 29, 2010
8:29 PM
|
I do use filler birds. I think they are the same depth and I do not consider them lacking in A team performance at all.
I primarily use Borges/Kiser birds for comp and have some Jaconettes (mostly gizzles) that are my filler birds. The grizzles are very frequent and induce the others to roll more with them. I will eventually be stocking some frequent birds from the other family but until I have them, the Jacs work great for keeping the kit active. Joe Borges himself saw my birds roll at the convention and he said that was smart to use those filler birds for more breaks.
So I do think they can have use. Filler birds. Maybe some do not need them though. Bill C
Last Edited by on Jan 29, 2010 8:29 PM
|
JMUrbon
881 posts
Jan 29, 2010
8:40 PM
|
I think what Jon is saying Bill is that he doesnt just stick birds in there to make 20 birds. I too feel that if you have a team that is working well together do not jeapardise that by adding birds just for sheer numbers. What you are talking about Bill is adding competant birds to your kit. That is different than just adding fliers. Fliers will cause a good kit to fly through alot of their brakes.
Like I stated earlier we are building a team. The goal should be to have your entire team hiting 25-35 feet. Not 10,15,20,25. If you have them then use them. Only in spectacular moments will all or 3/4 of them go at the same time so there will always ( realistically ) be birds to return to. Joe
----------
J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
|
Alohazona
678 posts
Jan 30, 2010
9:08 AM
|
I like all the answers here,and Joe I think you got farther than me in Paul's post,LOL
This is my 10th year flying rollers.To be honest with you I am just getting the true understanding of building a kit .That primary understanding, revolves around patience,understanding,discipline,communication and establishing the last two traits as soon as possible.
Pigeons are very habitual and potentially good birds can be ruined, if focus is, not on them early on.
My neighbors think that is strange to see me walking around the yard, bobbing pinning squeaks in my hands to get them to start using their most important feature...their wings.....Aloha,Todd
|