steve49
391 posts
Jan 26, 2010
12:54 PM
|
i've read here that different families require different feeding. could someone explain what they feed their families, and why? also, if you have more than one family, do you feed them differently?
----------
Steve in Blue Point, NY
|
nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
4095 posts
Jan 26, 2010
5:31 PM
|
To train my kit birds I use 3 parts Milo; 3 parts wheat; and 1 part Austrian peas. This values out at 14.9% Protien; 69.2% carbohydrate; and 2.7% fat. This gives me about the right amounts of protien for the proper building of muscle; the proper amount of carbohydrates for energy; and the proper amount of fat for health. In the winter I add safflower to increase fat level for energy enough to fight the cold. My breeders have a different mixture. All of my blends or mixtures only involve the four grains mentions; I will change the amount of each depending on the season or condition of the birds.
----------
Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
|
Ty Coleman
842 posts
Jan 26, 2010
5:48 PM
|
Dang Nick, we feed and fly almost the same. I mix 50lbs white wheat,50lbs red milo, and 25lbs austrian peas. I add safflower and black oil sunflower seeds through the molt and in the winter. I play with my mix according to the weather and performance but that is my starting point.My breeders get 50 lbs game cock feed and 50lbs wheat, that is about 12 different grains,heavy on the wheat and 3 different pellets[ I think they need the alfalfa pellets for the greenery aspect]. My kit birds get my breeder mix once every 2 weeks until one month before comp. I also add codliver oil, red cell, brewers yeast with garlic, and pro biotics once in a while to the kit birds and breeders. I use pigeon builder and ACV alternated in the water very often. Grit,oyster shell, and gravel are free choice in the stock loft.
----------
Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
|
Ty Coleman
843 posts
Jan 26, 2010
5:52 PM
|
Why , Wheat= fly time. Milo= frequency. Austrian Peas= quality. To much of either can kill the performance either way.
----------
Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
|
TheGame
683 posts
Jan 26, 2010
6:02 PM
|
How do you guys feel about the bags that are already pre mixed??
|
Scott Coe
37 posts
Jan 26, 2010
6:31 PM
|
I'm very lucky i have a guy in spokane who mixes my feed cheaper than i can buy all the ingredient's, or premix bags. If you want to change one item or another he will.
All my birds get the same feed ,just more or less. depending on perfomance, breeding, or rest days.
|
steve49
392 posts
Jan 26, 2010
6:39 PM
|
this is all great info, but not addressing why certain families do better if fed a certain way. NIck & Ty, you both feed almost the same diet. are you flying the same family? i suppose it will be trial and error, but i'm looking for that starting point. afterall, if the birds are not doing as well as we'd like, how much is due to feeding, and how much is due to the birds genetic makeup?
----------
Steve in Blue Point, NY
|
Ty Coleman
844 posts
Jan 26, 2010
6:41 PM
|
Pre mix is not available here in Georgia in my area. But I have played with the feed so much I dont think I would like it. Scott, 50lbs of Austrian Peas are $43 bucks here but I can also by wheat for 8 bucks.
----------
Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
|
PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3524 posts
Jan 26, 2010
6:45 PM
|
I have 3 family kitbirds and they are given mix all year and they perform just fine on that and never a dull moment when I have them in tune..if they love to roll they roll.. ...I don't have to change there feed only play with their condition, and feed more or less from what I see they need to control the flying time . when they get stiff on me I don't change the feed I change my management ...from overflying them..I give ACV once in a while Garlic in water too.grit once a week ...the only thing I hate is pulling out the corn everytime..and since their is no winter here they don't need it..but that is the only thing they sell here mix with corn..so they learn to fly on that..
----------
Ralph.
Pigeons are not our whole life, but they damn sure make our lives whole!" ~
Last Edited by on Jan 26, 2010 6:46 PM
|
Ty Coleman
845 posts
Jan 26, 2010
7:08 PM
|
Steve, Nick posted last year about flying 2 on 2 off which is how I fly also. I fly Turner and Greene birds which are Lyod Thompson and Pensom crosses. Don kept his pure and James added color birds from 3 lofts. Both Don and James birds both go back to the same few birds though, and I can take mine back to 8 birds which is why I think mine are easy to handle once I got a feel for it. James live about 1 1\2 hours from me and we feed completly different and Cliff live about 6 hours from me and we feed slightly different. We all feed different, fly the same family, but get close to the same results. Geographical location is the only thing I can figure and I think humidity has alot to do with it also being James is close to the lake. I feel pretty sure that Nicks birds are not even remotly geneticly close to mine but we fly and feed very close. This would make a great studt for someone who had the time !
----------
Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
|
Ty Coleman
846 posts
Jan 26, 2010
7:13 PM
|
Ralph, I was told to " Read them and feed them", tempature plays a big roll in my birds.
----------
Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
|
wishiwon2
283 posts
Jan 26, 2010
9:51 PM
|
I dont like feeding mixes to kit birds, 2 reasons.
1) Each bird has preferences. Some will eat peas more readily, others milo, etc etc. I want all birds to be on the same page all the time so I can see how each reacts to changes I make, not preferences they develope.
2) It is more difficult to get a change out of a kit by only changing the quantity of feed. I want to be able to change porportions of each grain, and ensure each bird eats equally of each type of grain. I can add peas or reduce milo and know that all the birds are receiving more or less of what I change. I feed multiple grains, but feed them each one type of grain at a time.
----------
Jon
If it were easy, everybody would do it
|
wishiwon2
284 posts
Jan 26, 2010
10:04 PM
|
I have flown a few different families, Jaconette's, Starleys, English birds from Rick Schoening, Hardesty, Joe Borges. Each had unique traits.
I am currently breeding from 2 families, Starleys and Schoenings. They feed and fly similarly. I like them because they work on a wide range of condition. It is true that my best days still come when they are dialed in just right, but if I miss it by a little on either side, they still put on a decent show.
These I feed primarily wheat, a good quality red wheat. I add about 25% milo to old bird rations. Ill adjust the amt of milo based on need. I add some peas when I see that they need them too, especially to young birds. I add a little safflower during the moult or when Im not training for a fly. Millet when I need to get them up higher. They get grit about once a week and ACV twice a month. I'll purge old birds with Epsom salts 2 or 3 times through the summer, old birds get overconditioned easily.
I have been experimenting with a yo-yo feed/fly routine for holdover birds. So far I like it, as it extends the length of time I can keep a team on point.
----------
Jon
If it were easy, everybody would do it
|
Windjammer Loft
1054 posts
Jan 27, 2010
3:39 AM
|
wishiwon2... it must be nice to have all the time in the world to feed your birds separate grains, like you do..LOL
How many birds do you feed?? And how long does it take you?? Just curious...
This feeding issue will "never" be solved. Feeds throught the U.S.A. are very different. Where I live, here in Ohio, I can go to many different feed mills and get "any" mixture of feed that I want.... Guess Iam very "lucky". Presently I have 2 families of Rollers, 2 families of Oriental rollers and my white homers. They "all" get the same mixture during flying season. It's about 15%. But then again, I do "add" afew other grains during the "molt" and in the "colder" months. When it comes to my
"breeders", thats a differt story. During breeding season they get the regular mixture plus "pellets". And when not in the "nests" they are fed the regular mixture.
Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Jan 27, 2010 3:49 AM
|
J_Star
2242 posts
Jan 27, 2010
5:23 AM
|
Jon, I like your post. Your feeding is similar to mine. However, Milo for me gauges the hights I want them to fly. I don't purge them with epsom salt, rather, I use barly. The birds don't like it because they know it gives them the shits but you give it to them first while they are really hungry and wait until they eat it all...and it will take awhile to consume it.
Jay
Last Edited by on Jan 27, 2010 5:24 AM
|
steve49
393 posts
Jan 27, 2010
3:51 PM
|
Jon, wow, i wasn't expecting a treatise, but you sure delivered! very impressive post, and i thank you. especially about feeding kit birds only milo and wheat. i do want to know when you start out young birds on this milo/wheat/pea diet? i kept my young birds on a no corn mix during their first summer, as i think they needed maximum nutrition because they still were babies. as they got older (approaching 3 months i started red wheat/white milo leading up to the fall fly in late sept. i couldn't really see much difference in performance, because of their age. also, the breeder of my kits suggested i keep them on the youngbird mix and then a couple of weeks prior to competition, start the wheat/milo. the fall fly was way too early, and also i'm just learning this whole mgmt thing. i am fortunate that so many learned flyers have responded to many of my posts.
----------
Steve in Blue Point, NY
|
steve49
394 posts
Jan 27, 2010
3:52 PM
|
also, does everyone offer grit only once a week? i've always kept it in front of my kitbirds at all times.
----------
Steve in Blue Point, NY
|
wishiwon2
285 posts
Jan 28, 2010
2:24 PM
|
Steve,
When I wean, the young birds go directly into a kitbox, unlimited feed (breeder mix). As soon as Im comfortable they're eating/drinking on their own, (about 1 week) I begin trap training them. As soon as I start them trap training, I limit their feed, not severely, just a controled amount, still a breeder mix. After they have flown a half dozen flights, they will begin to form into a kit, then is when I begin feeding them a kit ration (50/50 red wheat/milo + peas). I still give them about 30% more volume than a more mature kit and I add peas which I usually dont feed to older kitbirds. The amount of peas varies so its hard to describe. If they show some reluctance to trap I cut back on amt of feed a bit (25%) for a few days til the trap directly in again.
During these first weeks and months I am managing for flying height and duration, only. I'll adjust feed up and down until I have them consistently flying at the height I want and for about 30-45 mins. If I can get them doing this for a month - 6 wks, they will retain that habit of flight time and height for most their life. Then when they are mature and developed in the roll, I can mess with their heads a little and not have them skying out or landing early.
Paul,
It really doesnt take much more time to feed individual grain than if I fed a mix. I have 4 kits right now, and it takes me about 45 minutes to feed them, the breeders, feed my horse, the chickens, dogs and pigs. Often I'll feed one kit (one that isnt going to fly that day) while the another is flying. During the winter, I do have a little extra time. Often they all get fed in the dark. Late spring and summer is when I am strapped for time, it is also when I have the least amount of kitbirds and flying to be done, so it kinda balances out. I have found that there are no shortcuts to sucess, though. If you expect to get the best out of them, it takes time and attention.
----------
Jon
If it were easy, everybody would do it
|
pigeon pete
507 posts
Jan 30, 2010
3:39 PM
|
Paul If you want to feed similar to Jon but don't have the time, you could do as I often do.
I feed straight wheat most days when ther kit is in training (old birds). I will give them an odd day on straight milo or straight peas as I judge the need.
Pete
|
Bill C
482 posts
Jan 30, 2010
5:49 PM
|
As far as training goes, I feed mix and always feed a bit healthy to bird the first 6 months. But once they are hold over birds. I do all kind of changes with the feed. Mostly mix but depending on the weather conditions and the legnth of time the birds are flying, is where the change comes into play. The change for older kit birds is usually only 8 to 10 days out from a fly.
I fly many families together and for the most part it works for them all except the few small hens or cocks in the kit.
For example if you have birds flying 40 minutes and prep for a comp fly training, then as they start to come down but go back up for an hour. or If you are expecting a hot day on comp fly, the training really needs to be tailored for your flying conditions. Bill C
Last Edited by on Jan 30, 2010 5:51 PM
|