BA Rollers
317 posts
Jan 29, 2010
8:47 AM
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Tony, are you privy to information that would incline you to continually suggesting that there is a OHR version 2???? I mean you keep on bringing it up in a thread where only you are bringing it up. And in a thread where there is no associated component. In other words, this thread contains nothing to suggest anyone has done anything wrong, therefore the continual barrage about OHR is unfounded, unwarranted, and to be honest, a little bit disturbing that you continue to bring it up. Again, DO YOU KNOW SOMETHING THE REST OF US DON'T????????. hmmmmmmm
Rollers being attacked by BOP isn't animal cruelty. Is it animal cruelty when chickens get caught and ate by a BOP? Does the state mandate they have to be protected? Roller flying won't be band. All pigeon flying would have to be band. Which would in turn mean all those commies flying around the cities and feed mills are breaking the law.
Again.......WHY OHR?????
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3885 posts
Jan 29, 2010
9:22 AM
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Hey Brian, my feeling is that you willfully do not want to understand the broad point being made in reference to OHR. What specifically is it that you have a problem with in my post #3884? And to answer your question specifically, NO, I do not know of anything going down or up for that matter.
I agree with you, animals in the wild being caught and eaten by a predator is perfectly within the natural order of things. You know I know that.
Now, can tossing up hundreds of rollers into the air, knowing full well that a large percentage will be eaten, be considered the natural order of things? My suggestion is might it be considered by some to be cruelty to animals? Animal rights groups, local DA's, the Feds, are well funded and active and always looking for the next cause or injustice. Or do you disagree with that too?
Here is how I see this:
If a dog club started a new swimming contest for water dogs to be held offshore, and in the course of training and competing, large numbers were eaten by sharks, how do you think these entities listed above would react to that? The occasional loss is one thing, but pouring in volumes of water dogs to be lost in order to compete seems questionable at best.
Like I said, you or anyone else don't have to agree with me at all, but I sure see no wisdom in the practice.
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FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria
Your Own Custom Telephone # Bands
Last Edited by on Jan 29, 2010 10:00 AM
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katyroller
706 posts
Jan 29, 2010
10:38 AM
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Go back and read the press reports for OHR and pay attention to how the press and animal rights groups portrayed BR fanciers. We were portrayed as a group that deliberately bred pigeons that are known to have a mental defect. Look at how fanciers of game fowl are portrayed. Like BR's, many game fowl are kept to do what comes natural to them.
When you post that you raise 700 birds a year, you are going to get the attention of the radical animal rights groups that would love to shut us down. That attention can result in unwanted attention from these groups and possibly Big Brother. The right wing animal rights groups have big money and folks in high places. It would not be impossible for them to decide to pay you a visit to inspect your lofts. This is where the fun begins. Your idea of sanitary well kept facilities will not meet their standards. If they choose to shut you down, you then have to deal with a mountain of financial costs just to stay in the game. I personally know of a fancier who was arrested and jailed for a non pigeon related crime. The police waited several days before they decided to search his house. His bird hadn't been fed or watered, so they found dead birds. They called in the Humane Society who had a field day because he had close to 500 birds and many had starved to death. He ended up with animal abuse charges and a court order that he is not allowed to own any birds for a period of several years.
The fanciers in Cali have it rough without a doubt but I PERSONALLY don't think the answer is breeding large numbers of birds. It is a known fact that if you continue to feed the BOP's, they will continue to come back to eat. When you get frustrated and throw in the towel, what happens? What happens is the BOP look for a new source of food and if they find another fancier, they set up residence because they developed a taste for pigeons.
It is everyones right to breed what they can properly care for but we also need to take into consideration other factors.
Tracey
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3525 posts
Jan 29, 2010
11:06 AM
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Tony I am open minded to anything and of what Tracey just said >When you post that you raise 700 birds a year, you are going to get the attention of the radical animal rights groups that would love to shut us down. That attention can result in unwanted attention from these groups and possibly Big Brother
Knowing that I suggest this tread be deleted immediately if not sooner.why take a chance...we are feeding information that shouldn't be fed..----------
Ralph.
Pigeons are not our whole life, but they damn sure make our lives whole!" ~
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3886 posts
Jan 29, 2010
11:19 AM
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Hey Ralph, I don't think animal rights groups want to shut the roller hobby down so much as these groups look for systemic problems of cruelty or abuse in any animal category. To delete this thread at your suggestion, now at this point (notwithstanding my earlier offer to Robert to remove it) may serve to only give this behavior tacit approval and conspire in a greater cover-up.
Pres. Nixon did not get into trouble for breaking into Watergate, but for his part in the subsequent cover-up. Each person can go back and edit their posts and remove what they no longer feel comfortable with. That very action should be an indictment that they know something is wrong.
That he even mentioned it without concern, tells me, that as a hobby featuring roller competition, we have much more education to do. Why is it so hard to understand that the ends (competition at all costs) does not justify the means (sacrificing too many rollers)?
Why must a scandal that stains all of us have to occur before anyone will admit losing so many birds is not good animal husbandry?
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FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria
Your Own Custom Telephone # Bands
Last Edited by on Jan 29, 2010 11:24 AM
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BA Rollers
318 posts
Jan 29, 2010
12:04 PM
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"Hey Brian, my feeling is that you willfully do not want to understand the broad point being made in reference to OHR. What specifically is it that you have a problem with in my post #3884?"
What do I have a problem with? I have a problem with you continuing to insert the assumption that a guy wanting to fly 700 rollers is somehow connected to OHR. I have a problem with you publicly suggesting that the breeding and flying of large numbers of rollers is somehow part of OHR. I have a problem with you bringing up OHR routinely. The fact that you and only you are doing it suggests to me that there is more to the story. And I have a problem with that.
I could bring up the points that would substantiate my suspicions with your recent comments. But out of respect for your forum I will refrain.
No I do not agree that radical animal rights nutjobs will see raising and flying 700 rollers, many of which are captured and devoured by BOPs, as being somehow cruel. However I agree that these same wackos would instead pursue some challenge against breeding rollers because of their roll and sometimes too much of it.
"Here is how I see this:
If a dog club started a new swimming contest for water dogs to be held offshore, and in the course of training and competing, large numbers were eaten by sharks, how do you think these entities listed above would react to that? The occasional loss is one thing, but pouring in volumes of water dogs to be lost in order to compete seems questionable at best."
First of all, your suggested comparison is off the wall. A dog's natural environment is not the ocean. A bird's (pigeon) natural environment is the air which all birds share with predators. We as humans brought the bird into our captivity and protect it from nature. The one thing that makes pigeons unique compared to all other kinds of domesticated flying birds is that pigeons can be trained to return home upon release. No other flying bird can do such a thing as pigeons, particularly on command in some cases. A pigeon's home is in the air. A dog's home is not in the ocean. Nor is a dog a shark's natural prey. A pigeon can be argued as natural prey, even if it is a domesticated pigeon. To a BOP, it most assurely cannot distinguish between a wild and domesticated pigeon.
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michael salus
132 posts
Jan 29, 2010
12:08 PM
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Tony, Please delete this post it's just more ammunition and it's getting nowhere.
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MJ
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katyroller
707 posts
Jan 29, 2010
1:20 PM
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"Even the racing homer clubs get flak over releasing their birds knowing that large numbers don’t make it back home. I think my point is not as hard to understand as you want to make it."
This is a very accurate statement!
"Hey Ralph, I don't think animal rights groups want to shut the roller hobby down so much as these groups look for systemic problems of cruelty or abuse in any animal category."
Tony, for the most part you are right about the animal rights groups but there are extremist groups that do not condone people owning ANY animal, not even "flying rats".
Tracey
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3890 posts
Jan 29, 2010
1:24 PM
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Tracey, fortunately, these type of guys against owning flying rats are the minority! Right? Right??
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FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria
Your Own Custom Telephone # Bands
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Robert Pelham
29 posts
Jan 29, 2010
1:30 PM
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Now you saying that I am feeding 700 a year to the hawks .Can you read this.I never said that I lost hundreds of birds last year.I gave away over to new comers & old timers.sold maybe 3 teams.stocked about 46.still have 24 in main team I mite have lost over a hunderd.I train with "droppers" if you know how to do that.ps tony how many do you breed a year.to suport you ruby rollers.you know R Jaconett can not have his anymore the IRS shout him down!!also the racer guys are still training!!!!
Last Edited by on Jan 29, 2010 2:29 PM
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katyroller
708 posts
Jan 29, 2010
1:30 PM
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Robert,
Alot of folks(myself included)probably misunderstood what you were trying to say. It's great that you are out there trying to help out other fanciers. By the way, can I get a free kit of birds? :) Just joking Brother!
Tracey
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Robert Pelham
30 posts
Jan 29, 2010
1:36 PM
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Yea give me call lol
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katyroller
709 posts
Jan 29, 2010
1:38 PM
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If you can afford to feed 700, you can afford to give me a call! :)
Tracey
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katyroller
710 posts
Jan 29, 2010
2:00 PM
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Back before OHR I had a conversation with two TX Game Wardens about my pigeons. I had noticed a Cooper sitting in a tree and made a comment about it. They inquired how I knew what type of BOP it was. I told them I raised BR's and they told me to be careful because there was an active investigation into Houston area fanciers killing BOP's. I posted about the conversation on this forum and one other, only to be accused of being a snitch. When OHR broke, we had a racing fancier busted in Houston.
Tracey
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BA Rollers
319 posts
Jan 29, 2010
2:22 PM
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Tony, I've stated my opinion and stand by it. I disagree with your decision to incorporate OHR suggestions into this thread. You believe it is substantiated. Its your house so we will just have to agree to disagree.
There is nothing illegal about flying rollers, irregardless of how many the person chooses to fly or how many are captured by a BOP. I'm not flying so it doesn't matter to me. If someone is choosing to do something illegal after what occurred in 2005, then that's something they will have to deal with. I believe you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would tread on those waters.
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Robert Pelham
31 posts
Jan 29, 2010
2:22 PM
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Katyroller I was out on a ten mile bike ride this afternoon. I have given over a hundred young birds out last year if you will pay the shipping give me a call anytime and let know how many you need.
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katyroller
711 posts
Jan 29, 2010
2:34 PM
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Robert,
Thanks, for the offer Bro but I was only joking. More birds right now is the last thing I need. Enjoy your birds and do what you gotta do.
Tracey
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3891 posts
Jan 29, 2010
2:34 PM
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Hey Brian, I appreciate that we could have a good debate and express our thoughts, opinions and concerns and then agree to disagree. Perhaps others could be so gracious in their discussions as you and I have. Thanks!
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FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria
Your Own Custom Telephone # Bands
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3892 posts
Jan 29, 2010
2:37 PM
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Robert! I am so glad to hear that you are not loosing 700 birds!! This just goes to show how communicating through the Internet can lead to misunderstandings. I hope we are good, as I never thought we weren't right?
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FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria
Your Own Custom Telephone # Bands
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Robert Pelham
32 posts
Jan 29, 2010
2:53 PM
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Its not all bad I aways seem to get good out of a bad if it gets people talking it can't be bad.I can bring my teams down with a dropper in about 15 to30 secounds somtimes from 1500ft.they learn fast.they have it in them to live!much respect Robert Pelham
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Robert Pelham
33 posts
Jan 29, 2010
5:37 PM
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Yes if you read I have said I stocked over 45 birds last year and still have hold overs from last year about 23.so I ended up 70 out fo 250 last year.and I taking the first thred down.check me out on rollerworld.ning.com
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Sound Rollers
203 posts
Jan 31, 2010
10:29 AM
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Spanky, how does one get an invite to rollerworld.ning?
John
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spanky
896 posts
Feb 01, 2010
9:28 AM
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SOUND ROLLERS WHATS YOUR EMAIL
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gentle johnnie
111 posts
Feb 01, 2010
6:17 PM
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lew3015 if you want invite to rollerworld I'll need your Email Add. will send you one GOD BLESS
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Gentle Johnnie "Angels of the Sky Loft"
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lil_jess
188 posts
Feb 01, 2010
6:44 PM
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I have that kind of problem here too...I finally found a way to stop feeding my birds to the BOP...I QUIT...Sad/Hate to see the best one go with the BOP...I'll get back in the hobby when the Gov't do something about the BOP...Other than that GL feeding your bird to the BOP, It's costy per birds to live in your loft/kitbox, but free to BOP...
Home of the Admiration Of Flying Performing Pigeon...
Last Edited by on Feb 01, 2010 6:48 PM
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Robert Pelham
42 posts
Feb 01, 2010
8:07 PM
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Some can not read I never said I was just feeding the hawk or shooting or traping them. I can fly my birds from 6am to 4pm I change it all the time and I use dropers to bring them down my young birds or only out for 10min to 15 mins I try to train them right if you can make him miss then you bring your birds down.life is to short we mite not be here I live for the spin!!!
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katyroller
713 posts
Feb 02, 2010
4:57 AM
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Robert,
Check your rollerworld, in box.
Tracey
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3529 posts
Feb 02, 2010
7:50 AM
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Hey Robert sup,how many droppers you use and is it more affected than using the whistle.cause when the BOP is chasing my birds they don't respond to the whistle no matter how hungry they are even after the bop is gone they just too nervous and stay up and get caught if they would come when call it would save their live.droppers is something we use to use way back when I was a kid.but now with bop around I'm thinking of bringing it in again..I mean using the whistle is one less bird to feed but if it works ..hey..
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Ralph.
Pigeons are not our whole life, but they damn sure make our lives whole!" ~
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Robert Pelham
44 posts
Feb 02, 2010
12:19 PM
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You can use a white fantail or snow tumbler or a spanish theff that is really tame.forget the wistle try a jungle call some times it works lol.much respect Robert Pelham aka P J
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3534 posts
Feb 02, 2010
4:47 PM
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Yea thats what I was talking about the fantails..how many do you use?
forget the whistle try a jungle call .lol...I might just do that ..neighbors think I'm krazy anyway..:)
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Ralph.
Pigeons are not our whole life, but they damn sure make our lives whole!" ~
Last Edited by on Feb 02, 2010 4:48 PM
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Robert Pelham
46 posts
Feb 03, 2010
6:48 PM
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PR rollers I never let my droppers fly I call the birds down letting them see the flights and the bird.when you use the spanish theffs you pull the flight of his hen or cut them.you have to keep them hungry for it to work I fly diffrent teams ever other day so I can bring them back up. Know you can send 10 dollars to the red cross for the class lol much respect Robert Pelham
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rookie from ct
GOLD MEMBER
224 posts
Feb 04, 2010
5:44 AM
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Hay Robert I will donate to the red cross,for another lesson are you saying if there is a BOP after a kit a dropper will bring your birds down.What do you toss the fantail onto the kit box? Dennis
Last Edited by on Feb 04, 2010 5:58 AM
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3537 posts
Feb 04, 2010
5:59 AM
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lol rookie, Robert money is sent:) red cross says to thank you.they said keep asking you questions until they get total 50 bucks.. how many droppers do you use?.
Ralph.
Pigeons are not our whole life, but they damn sure make our lives whole!" ~
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wannaroll
129 posts
Feb 04, 2010
7:17 AM
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Hey Robert you can always give them one of those heavy metal screams. Hit some high notes and it will scare the BOP away.
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Dave - Hesperia, CA.
(San Bernardino Mountain Spinners)
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