shukz
94 posts
Feb 17, 2010
8:15 AM
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Hey guys,i havnt posted in a long time,i hope everyone is well,im looking for some type of conditioning schedule,Tony had 1 in the reading room a very long time ago,dont see it there anymore,can anyone help me out as to how i go about with breaking the birds down and getting them back up again,i understand the terms etc,what im looking for is for eg;a 3,7,14 day schedule that i can try out.
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Shukz(RSA)
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fhtfire
2466 posts
Feb 17, 2010
10:50 AM
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Shukz,
I have been using a feeding system since 06 with pretty good success. This is for birds that are well into the roll and working as a team....or developing as a team...not a fly in circles with one or two breaks..young bird team....so...
I fly my A and B team like this...FLY REST REST FLY REST REST FLY REST REST FLY...this is just the maintenance...keeps them in shape but not to in shape. The feeding schedule is like this...the day they fly...when they land they get mix...full rations (2 cups) for 20 birds....or 1/2 cup to 5 birds...so if you have 15 birds they would get 1.5 cups...if you have 17 birds...you just put your 1.5 cups and then maybe a 1/4 of a cup....so it is mix with a full ration when they come in from a fly. Then on the second day of rest the food is cut by 1/2 cup...so on the second day they would get 1.5 cups...just reduce by 1/2 cup. On the second day or first rest day they get 50/50 wheat and milo..if they are feeling light in the hand...or fly like they need a boost..they will get mix the second day instead of wheat milo....on the cold days they get mix regardless....on the 2nd rest day or day before they fly they get cut another 1/2 cut so for 20 birds 1 cup of 50/50 wheat and milo. Then fly again...I just keep doing this over and over...the only day I change is the second day for feed...mix or wheat milo based on weather, how they fly and how they feel in the hand....they stay and shape and usually put on a pretty good show. It is very rare that the birds do nothing....unless I mess with the schedule..if they are locked down extra days..they fly like crap....flown an extra day..sam thing....this schedule I have found in my birds..is that it works very well.
I also use a pellet mix for my birds that I developed in 05...it took me about a year to find the right mixture of pellets, wheat, milo and sauflower...but I make my own mix for my fliers....but during the really cold months.....They get regular mix with peas etc. My kit birds only get mix during that time.
I really think that pellets get a bad name.>>But I feel the benefits of pellets are second to none. As long as they are cut with hard grain..it took me a little over a year to come up with just the right mixture of pellets to grain..but when I found it...I hit a gold mine......the birds are so easy to handle...06 was the first year that I started my mix and started my flashover strain....and well...actions speak louder then word...but like anything....try different things and find what works for you..but just because it does not work for you does not mean will never work for anybody....I am always carefull to not disrespect others hard work.....so..try and see how it works.....
Make sure that you try for at least 2-3 weeks so the birds have time to rid themselves of whatever you have done before a new trial ...and there bodies have time to reap the benefits of your new feeding and flying...it takes time for the body to react to things....most try something for a week and say it does not work...but in reality....the birds are still adjusting...
Comp feeding is when I change it up a little bit..but for every day keeping the fit and healthy ..that is what I do....I dont break down my birds at all...I keep them fit....I also feel that a good feed and fly schedule keeps the birds active...and wanting to roll...and the more they get to work together as a team...the better they will be.....if you have them rolling good in practice they will be doing it on game day.....and when you keep them in good shape most of the time...it takes very little tweaking to pull it out of them.
rock and ROLL
Paul
One fly does not make the flier.....or the birds..just a little advice
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1649 posts
Feb 17, 2010
12:51 PM
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Paul said,
"I don't break down my birds at all...I keep them fit....I also feel that a good feed and fly schedule keeps the birds active...and wanting to roll...and the more they get to work together as a team...the better they will be.....if you have them rolling good in practice they will be doing it on game day.....and when you keep them in good shape most of the time...it takes very little tweaking to pull it out of them."
I would have said the same, just not as elegantly!
"Breaking Down", the term explains why it's wrong. IMHO.
Thom
Last Edited by on Feb 17, 2010 12:51 PM
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steve49
405 posts
Feb 17, 2010
2:41 PM
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Paul, your schedule is for birds a year or older, right? you mentioned that after a lockdown of more than two days (one day after their rest day) they didn't fly well. could you explain what they did? i am very interested in your system, as i will be flying two kits of 09 birds after winter lockdown. this past summer i started working with the two kits i mentioned. they both were fairly late hatches, and i flew them as much as possible, sometimes twice a day on the weekends. now, you're saying to fly one day, rest the next. i'm just curious why? help a newbie out, as i'm trying to have a clear idea of what this spring will be like, and also have a plan. thanx
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Steve in Blue Point, NY
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fhtfire
2467 posts
Feb 17, 2010
3:45 PM
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Steve,
This is really not for older birds....I start this system as soon as they come into the roll and start acting like a team....let me start from the begining.
Bare in mind that this is just one way and in this hobby there are lots of ways to skin a cat....But...when I started doing it this way..I was flying Scott C, Chuck Roe, Mort Emami, Turner, Ruby's and Jac based birds...and they all flew pretty good on this schedule except for the Scott C. Birds..you have to be a little tough on those birds...Scott I am sure can talk about that...his birds are not for the new guy...but when they are on..they roll with the best quality I have seen and that is the quality that I try and achieve with my birds.
So...I start out with the young birds...I fly them every day and somtimes twice a day...they get FULL mix every time they fly until they start rolling...when they start rolling...like 5-10' and I can see that they are being held back by the rest of the flying faster and not rolling..I move them up to the next kit...these I call my teenagers...they are starting to act like rollers...when they get moved up to the next kit I then fly them every other day and then I start playing with the wheat and the milo...I fly rest fly rest..etc...on FLy day full ration of mix...rest day 3/4 ration of wheat and milo and then I fly them the next day. The wheat and milo slows them down a little and you can see how they start to go a little deeper.
Once I get birds in that team that are really rolling..and trust me they stand out like a sore thumb....I then promote them to the B-team...REGARDLESS OF AGE...my birds are together based on performance not age...so I then when they get to the B-team they are put on the schedule of Fly rest rest fly...if they continue to do good and they can make the A-team then they too are promoted to the A-team.
Last year in my A-team..I had a few 07, a few 09 and the rest 08's...my full B-team consisted of all 09 birds and one 07 just to help the young birds slow the pace down. My B-team beat me A-team the last two years. so my 09's beat my old birds..LOL! But to be honest...my A team would beat my B-team 9 times out of 10..anyway....the Fly Rest Rest fly in again not based on age..but performance. When they are acting like a true team setting up and breaking ....with excellent quality and depth..then they make the team regardless of age.
To date most of my stock birds actually when from the young bird team...to the B-team for a couple days or skipped the B-team all together and joined the A-team...it was like they were meant to be there..no problems..no issues and you could not tell they were young birds when they rolled.....and at the end of the road...they usually ended up making the stock loft. The best birds pull the trigger and continue to get better with age.
So as far as the feeding..for me....they are fed and promoted or demoted based on performance and being a team player.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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fhtfire
2469 posts
Feb 17, 2010
4:45 PM
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Competition is a different story on feeding....Before a comp about two weeks out....I throw the mix to them for three days to really build up the muscles..and they get rest...then I put them on wheat for about 7 days and fly them every day...not to break them down...but to get them used to flying and the wheat is easy to control them and the fly time and they have enough nutrients to get by. If I feel the birds are in need of mix during the week of flying then they get it...if not the wheat continues until my last fly day. The other reason for the wheat is to take away the nutrients of the mix.....to the point where the body wants the mix SOOOOO bad....in the human form we do carb depleting and carb loading...basically you are tricking the body into wanting the mix at the muscular and mental level....then when we are three days out from the fly...I give them all the mix they can eat...and those birds are HAPPY..the muscles react by building up the muscles that have been broken down and not allowed to rebuild...it shoots vitamins, protein and carbs to the whole body all the way to the brain...it stimulates the body and mind. In athletes....it is the same..you throw the carbs back to the athlete and the muscles pump up and just feel good..you feel like you could take on the world. But I dont want the mix to install the bricks...so I then do my rest rest with the wheat and milo just like my regular flying....that keeps the muscles from getting to juiced so to speak...the key is finding that sweet spot.....So now the muscles are in tip top shape...the birds are mentally feeling good....and the fact they have flown for a week straight...they REALLY want to fly BAD....so you add the excitement of getting to fly again..with the combination of the muscles feeling good and the mind feeling good...9 times out of 10..your birds will come out swining!!! although weather can play a big part of it...but if all that is aok..you should have a good fly. So it is basically tricking the muscles and using the birds own drive to fly to make them perform...not break them down to where they are metally weak and then you are rolling the dice.
During the training for comp...if a bird acts up it is pulled plain and simple...I dont care if it is the best bird in the group..it is pulled. I also check all my birds the night before...I check for eggs, Damaged feathers with blood, I handle them to feel there condition..but what I really do is I check the wing snap...meaning..I hold the wing out( flying position)..I hold the last flight feather and then I let go of the wing....if the wing does not SNAP back into the natural position...it is pulled..if it goes back kind of slow...then I know it is to weak..that the muscles are not feeling the juice....I also take the wing and hold the last flight feather and pull the wing down gently till the bird pull up...and I feel how much strenght the bird has....I also extend the wing up..rest my hand close to the pit on the other side of ther wing with slight pressure until the bird pushes back...again..testing muscle quality....If they are weak in any of the three areas...they are pulled.
Just some food for thought....get it ...food....feed...LOL..
rock and ROLL
Paul
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steve49
406 posts
Feb 17, 2010
4:56 PM
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Paul, you're amazing! that was a fantastic explanation, and it was easy to understand. it was like a light going off in my head, you made it so easy to understand. up until now, i had no idea what direction my training was going. now i have a much better idea of what i need to do. this thread should be in an 'faq', but unfortunately, there isn't one here. Tony should put important info in a 'sticky', where posts deemed important are stuck for all to read. someplace easy to find.
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Steve in Blue Point, NY
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steve49
407 posts
Feb 17, 2010
4:57 PM
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btw, Paul, could you email me so i have your address? thanx, check my profile
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Steve in Blue Point, NY
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shukz
95 posts
Feb 17, 2010
8:48 PM
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very good explanation Paul,thank you very much for taking the time to answer my post,it helps alot and i am sure its going to help out other newbies as well,im defntly going to try it out and see how it works out.
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Shukz(RSA)
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rtwilliams
GOLD MEMBER
607 posts
Feb 18, 2010
1:05 PM
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Thanks Paul
I am playing with my birds right now doing things very similar to what you described with one kit. They are doing well.
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RT Williams
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wannaroll
134 posts
Feb 18, 2010
2:10 PM
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Hey Paul when you talk about the "MIX" you feed, are you refering to 12% grain or your own mix? Thanks for all the good info. I have heard how Monty Niebal used to use a 4 day yo-yo program and I find it very interesting. He would feed them pretty much all they would eat and then feed them normal then feed a 1/4 of their ration the day before the fly. His birds did OK for sure. I am eager to try your program. Thanks again.
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Dave - Hesperia, CA.
(San Bernardino Mountain Spinners)
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Hector Coya
630 posts
Feb 18, 2010
8:04 PM
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Real nice article Paul,i think you explain it great,,
Hector Coya-SGVS
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fhtfire
2471 posts
Feb 18, 2010
10:04 PM
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wannaroll,
The mix is a mix that I made up. I tried many different types of mixes for about a year and a half....off the shelf and mixes that I would formulate. I finally found the best mixture. I use farmers 28% pigeon pellet (1 part) to 50/50 wheat and milo (5 parts) to Sauflower (1 Part)...then I mix it up..that is my summer mix and pre comp mix....for every day flying in the spring and fall I add an extra Pellet ( 1/2 Part)...For Winter flying I the mix goes up to 2 parts pellet......and I go a little rich on the Sauflower......during the cold cold time...like Dec/Jan....All my birds get a 15% shelf mix with peas etc...just for the warmth.....I dont care really how they fly when I am feeding shelf mix....I just let them be pigeons.....then I hammer down again during the Late Winter....
It took me awhile to come up with just the right mixture so the birds would get all the goods without getting in to good of shape or adding the bricks to the muscle.
The feeding schedule with the pellets is really easy to handle.. ...all you do is just adjust the pellet quantities up or down and keep the rest the same...just adjust on how the birds fly and weather conditions (temp)....you can keep your birds in tip top shape...just enough so that all you have to do is teak them.
Anyway...it is just one way. I am also convinced that the birds get all the extra vitamins in the pellets...water consumption is the same....and no bad poop....because of the other hard seeds....and the birds are totally empty...they get the goods and when it is time to fly...they are empty....with the hard grains the crop may be empty..but the gizzard is still twisting and turning....I myself run alot better on an empty stomach......just some things I have noticed....
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2374 posts
Feb 19, 2010
5:38 AM
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Good info, Paul. And I love your "little elves" analogy!!
Cliff
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rookie from ct
GOLD MEMBER
232 posts
Feb 19, 2010
5:51 AM
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Thanks Paul some great info there and put me on the list of buyers when you write that book. Dennis
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viper
81 posts
Feb 20, 2010
6:36 PM
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Good post Paul on your mix are you feeding all seeds at once or one seed at a time.Blake
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fhtfire
2472 posts
Feb 21, 2010
11:23 AM
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Blake,
I feed all the seeds together just like a mix. One time before a fly I decided to feed the seeds separate and it was a disaster. Thy were not rolling together...some were flying fast and others were not....anyway...I thought long and hard on what had happened. Then I came to the conclusion that all the birds in the A-team made it to the team eating the mix together...so the birds pick the seeds that they want...some think that is a bad thing...but if the birds made it to the A team picking the seeds they want and they are healthy and can keep up...then I should not change a thing. When I fed the seeds seperate....birds that usually would not eat as many pellets would get more and it would juice them...because there metabolism was set on the birds seed selection....so to make a long story short....the birds made it to the team on mix and selecting there own seeds and they are fit and have great energy....then why change....so I feed the mix.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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viper
82 posts
Feb 21, 2010
6:46 PM
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So do you think the birds pick what they need(pellets or wheat)by giveing the mix instead of the grains separate?If thats the case then good read on your part.Blake
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Scott
2892 posts
Feb 22, 2010
7:27 AM
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I think the biggest factor here is that the pellets have replaced the main protien source (peas) which take a long time to digest.
The pellets just blow through.. same as the Salf and Milo.. this helps keep control over mature birds also while being able to maintain body wt.
In short .. you can feed the birds richer for a day and have them completly empty in short order to keep the control.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
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winwardrollers
430 posts
Feb 22, 2010
8:17 PM
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Scott
Why do you put safflower in the same catagory as pellets and milo?
bwinward
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Scott
2893 posts
Feb 22, 2010
9:06 PM
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My thought Brad was due to the softness they blow through the digestive system faster.... bu bu but fat does digest slower doesn't it
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
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wishiwon2
296 posts
Feb 22, 2010
9:13 PM
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Paul said he doesnt use this type of feed/fly regimen for his old birds. This (yo-yo) is exactly the management scenario that works well for my old bird kits. I make a few minor changes in the feed and rest periods but use the same principle. It helps me to not overcondition the old birds which is very easy to do.
Brad, I dont know about Scott, but safflower and milo have nearly identical effects on my birds. Unless I continue feeding saff for extended periods of time like 10 days continuous or more. It initially stimulates activity, but over time diminishes quality. Extensive feeding results in high-flying and loose rolling for my kits. Pellets worked differently than milo or saff for me, low slow flying, but same quick passage through intestines as milo or saff. Pea seed passage is real slow, like 2-3 days.
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Jon
If it were easy, everybody would do it
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Scott
2894 posts
Feb 22, 2010
9:20 PM
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Jon.. I never feed just Milo.. I prefer 50/50 milo wheat for quick spurts ( 3-4 days) Salfour I use in moderation mainly in the Fall and Winter for fat as I don't use corn here.. any more I stay clear of peas for my flyers due to how long they take to digest.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
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wishiwon2
297 posts
Feb 22, 2010
9:35 PM
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I dont feed it (milo or saff) straight either Scott, although I have done in the past to learn how it affected the birds. I use milo in combo with wheat anywhere from 50:50 down to 80:20 depending on what the birds are doing. Saff is too expensive to use as a staple for me, its just a treat and/or to perk up a kit. I havent found a substitute for peas yet that im satisfied with, I plan to experiment with pellets again this season, using a higher quality brand than Ive used previously. Slow digestion isnt always a negative though, it can be a tool to use to control where and how they fly too. It just needs to be predictable.
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Jon
If it were easy, everybody would do it
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fhtfire
2473 posts
Feb 22, 2010
11:54 PM
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Wishiwon2
Jon....I DO use this feeding for my old birds....the only difference between my old birds, teenagers and young birds is how rich the mix and how often. Mix I mean pellet mix...the older birds get the weak mix...the young birds get the rich mix..same as the breeders...the teenagers get the Mix that is more like the old birds but they get it more often....The rest changes too...the old birds get more rest....and the old birds get the mix less often.
The benefit to the pellets is a combination of things...you get a higher percentage of protein instead of peas..I use a 28% protein pellet...and the fact it blows through them...they are empty...but the body still stores the energy from the pellet....and they get all the vitamins too.
The only time my birds get a mix with the hard seeds is during the extreme cold....or below average temps...I use sauflower year around....it heavier during the spring and fall..just like Scott stated...
As far as slow digestion....it is a positive during the cold days..cause they need to maintain the heat for a long period....as far as still digesting....to me its like us going for a run after eating....not to much fun....
I think the key is the high protein pellet...my brother did the math with the wheat, milo, sauflower and pellet with my mix and it comes out to about 18% overall....after I cut it....anyway..just some food for thought....but when it comes to muscles..they work the same in all animals....we call them athletes then we should treat them as such.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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winwardrollers
431 posts
Feb 23, 2010
12:53 PM
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The reason I am asking about safflower is that I have been feeding alot this winter. I have easy access to it and purchased 1500 lbs of it for the year. Last weekend I was flying my birds and noticed that they were not as fat as I thought they should be.
I found this about the time I ran into this thread. Read and see what you think in regards to roller's and not women..lol
The women were instructed not to change their diets, or exercise patterns over the course of the study. Lead researcher Belury stated "I never would have imagined such a finding. This study is the first to show that such a modest amount of linoleic-acid rich oil may have a profound effect on body composition in women." The women took a daily dose of 1-2/3 teaspoons of safflower oil."
Postmenopausal women tend to lose muscle while gaining fat (adipose tissue) around their abdomens. This investigation shows dietary oil can complement lifestyle and medication in helping older diabetic women.
Results: Although safflower oil did not lower total body fat, it did reduce abdominal (belly) fat by 2.3 pounds and 4.2 pounds, or an average of 6.3%. It also increased lean muscle mass by an average of 1.4 pounds and 3 pounds. Moreover, it reduced fasting blood sugar levels by 11 and 19 points.
Belury stated: "Lowering fasting blood sugar is important for these women. The overall effect in just 16 weeks won't bring them back to normal, but safflower oil still improved it significantly." Safflower oil increased adiponectin levels in the subjects - a hormone that helps the body to "burn" dietary fats more efficiently
bwinward
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viper
83 posts
Feb 23, 2010
5:10 PM
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What about rice I heard some guys saying they used it when there birds went flat.To me rice would be a filler of carbs like feeding a horse straw.Blake
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wishiwon2
298 posts
Feb 24, 2010
2:10 PM
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Pirate Paul, I misunderstood your post 2467. After I re-read your posts I realized my mistake.
They are little athletes. The diference between these and other animal athletes is motivation. Racing homers use widowhood, greyhounds use a fake rabbit, retreivers use a pat on the head and praise. I keep telling my birds "what good boys they are" and trying to pet them just makes 'em wild. We have to breed for a hard wired roll impulse, then manage it/them to get their best performances. Some families, and it sounds like yours is one, are able to roll well when near full fit condition. Others need a little stress, mental or physical. This is the magic or strength of a yo-yo scheme. they get all the nutritional benefit they need, yet we can mentally apply stress in form of reduced rations, and as you pointed out in post 2469, by controlling when they fly, leaving them wanting to go out. The carb load/defecit comparison you used was very good explaination in my opinion. I want my birds to 'feel' energized and jacked up, I can do this by withholding or adding certain grains at different stages of training. Good analysis Paul.
Blake Ive tried using white rice before. It worked as you say, like an empty filler. If my team was flying flat because they're too strong, it worked well. They had their stomachs filled and were mentally satisfied, but still a bit physically weakened. If my team was flat because they were physically weak and not working right, it made them worse. Landing early and poor kitting behaviours. In the end rice gave me results that werent very predictable, mostly because I wasnt able to read the birds well enough. Maybe as I get better at flying and managing them, I'll be able to make better reads.
The hard part for me has been to make the right assessment why they are 'off'. They can feel right in the hand, being muscled correct and weigh aboiut right, but still be too strong or weak for optimal performance. The muscles are depleted of energy reserve and/or their minds are too strong and they are able to have excessive control.
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Jon
If it were easy, everybody would do it
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wishiwon2
299 posts
Feb 24, 2010
2:15 PM
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Brad, food for thought about linoleic acid. If I cant find an application for it in the rollers, I may have some use for it myself (reducing belly fat). I hope it still works for me even though Im not postmenopausal ... lol
Paul, outside of California, can the rest of us buy Hemp oil without a medicinal prescription? Maybe some those guys who live in the S.E. US could refine their own ....
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Jon
If it were easy, everybody would do it
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winwardrollers
433 posts
Feb 24, 2010
4:13 PM
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Jon
Rolled safflower for breakfast.. lol, let me know how it work out.
bwinward
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fhtfire
2475 posts
Feb 24, 2010
4:54 PM
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wishiwon2.
Jon, You can buy hemp oil on-line...hemp rope, cloths..etc...Hemp has very little THC....Hemp is just for uses like clothing, paper, oil, etc...Now the green stuff is a hemp but has been bred so to speak for high THC levels.....Hemp oil is so good for you..google it....or google hemp facts.
Hemp was the biggest crop in the US in the early 1900...I believe Kentucky farmers were the largest producers of hemp and the government paid hemp farmers to grow more...until dupont came out with synthetic fibers made from Crude Oil....and so was the fall of hemp by the power of money..most of the politicians had invested in Dupont.
You can get hemp seeds online too.....I have yet to try them..but they are filled with good stuff...they say hemp seeds have more good stuff then any other plant...anyway.
You can get it all online...I am going start playing with it for me and my birds.
Cali is only to buy for medical purposes and I will say this..during my neck injury and surgery....I had a prescription and it was god given plant...because once I started using that to sleep and ease the pain...I stopped taking my RX meds.....I felt better during the day because I had a good nights sleep....It was magic.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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fhtfire
2476 posts
Feb 24, 2010
4:59 PM
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Brad,
I know what you are a saying about them feeling good in the hand and can still be strong or weak.....That is why I do my wing test.....I talked about it in one of my posts...I have been pretty accurate with the wing test.....Pulling the wing down by the last flight and then letting the bird pull up..to feel the strength...then I put the wing up and rest my hand under the wing close to the body in the pit and push up gently making the bird push back...again testing the strength.......I also extend the wing all the way out in the flying or gliding position and hold it by the flight feather....and let the wing go..if it snaps back to normal position...she is ready to rock....if the wing goes back slow..something is not right....if they fail any of the three before lock down or during lock down before a fly..they are pulled...
I have tested the theory during my fake comp training...and has worked real good......If it is far enough from the comp...I can give them a staight shot of pellets to give them some juice....then I test again....if the wings are fine the birds are fine.....I also find the hens usually fail the test....
rock and ROLL
Paul
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viper
84 posts
Feb 24, 2010
5:44 PM
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I think I learned somethings about feeds and feeding here at least some more stuff to try out.The best way to prep for a comp(in my mind) is get a idea in your mind of what you need to do and stick to it don't weaken and mess with amounts and kind of feeds during your prep stay the coruse.And when that fails call Paul tell him you hurt your neck and need a script to ease your pain.LOL Blake
Last Edited by on Feb 24, 2010 5:45 PM
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winwardrollers
434 posts
Feb 24, 2010
6:09 PM
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Paul
I was not talking about how strong, just simply weight. When I ask Scott about safflower blowing through the birds I was wondering how he came up with that. I always thought safflower put weight on the birds until feeding large amounts of it this winter and the birds are still lean. It maybe the cold weather playing apart or simply that the safflower is blowing through the birds because of the softness and fiber content.
If we can get Jon to eat his rolled safflower for breakfast we can test this hypothensis out on his belly fat..lol
bwinward
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Scott
2899 posts
Feb 24, 2010
10:24 PM
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Brad.. with me it is based along the digestive line and I want to maintain wt. .. as for your question on wt and Salf . .. you ever heard of the Atkins diet ? cut the carbs down to a particular point and that is what you have.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
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katyroller
722 posts
Feb 25, 2010
1:08 PM
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Safflower is high in beneficial oils but like anything else can be bad when overfed. I think the key is to ensure that the amount of fat fed is commensurate with the amount of exercise they are getting. You can eat BK everyday and not get fat as long as your activity level is high enough to burn off all that fat.
Tracey
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JMUrbon
916 posts
Feb 25, 2010
7:42 PM
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I believe that when you find what works for your birds you milk it for what its worth. I have seen far too many kits fall apart because of some fly by nite feed program. I dont believe any method is fool proof as I have seen kits at all houses fall apart. Instead of trying to prep a kit for comp day just find a feed that works all the time and stick with it. Whether it be pellets or grain. If it works consistantly than stick with it. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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wishiwon2
302 posts
Feb 25, 2010
9:10 PM
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Solid advice Joe. Spoken like someone who has spoiled a good kit before. I wish I would have learned that right from the get-go instead of hunting the magic ration for fly day. Having learned the principle now, still wont keep me from trying to get an edge ... It will just be more finesse, hopefully. I am trying to learn the subtle nuances of kit managment instead of the gross process I started with. That and hopefully being able to put together a better kit (birds) each sucessive year.
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Jon
If it were easy, everybody would do it
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gotspin7
2647 posts
Feb 25, 2010
9:19 PM
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Great advice gentlemen. Thank you for sharing such!
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Salvador Ortiz
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winwardrollers
436 posts
Feb 26, 2010
11:56 AM
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This has got me thinking, I can see that my winter feed program is going to change. My warm weather feed works well and I am satisfied.
bwinward
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JR LOPEZ
12 posts
Jun 02, 2010
3:04 AM
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Awesome Topic...
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wannaroll
203 posts
Jun 02, 2010
4:43 PM
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Hey Paul, when does the book come out. "YO YO Rollers"?
The only variance I have done with my birds is using 22% pellets. Lately I've been flying the A & B kits every other day just using wheat and milo with two days a week of stright 12% grain. I will be back on the Fly Rest Rest Fly method in about two weeks.
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Dave - Hesperia, CA.
(San Bernardino Mountain Spinners)
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