rockx.559
162 posts
Feb 26, 2010
11:24 PM
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If you bought a special or lets say ...a guranteed pair... straight from a well known flyer for a good cost to start your foundation with. After buying that pair, you couldnt afford to lose any of the offspring because you need them to breed more. So you lock down the foundation pair with all its offspring year after year. And for sure there's going to be brothers and sisters breeding with one another and fathers and mothers back to with who ever. And when you have enough to breed from with no problems, thats when you start to build and fly kit birds. My Question is...
Are the birds still capable of producing decent/good birds when your finally ready to fly them?
Let me know what you think about this or if theres any problems with the breeding then please feel free because this is a question that Im not so sure about...
Thanks friends
Last Edited by on Feb 26, 2010 11:37 PM
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
4167 posts
Feb 27, 2010
12:05 AM
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It is all about control and it is up to you to prevent your breeding program from getting out of control. You are the one who was to decide what birds will breed with what birds. It is not done just hellter-skellter with an attitude of "whatever happens, happens.
If it were me I would get me about three pair foster parents and time it where you can foster out the eggs to the foster parents from the original pair that way you can get many more rounds of off-spring from the original pair. The foster parents you should be able to get very cheap and in most cases free. These birds are not bred. They mate and lay eggs, but the eggs are replaced with eggs from the original breeder pair.
Once the off spring get to weening age you remove them from the breeder pen.
Now think through the advise I have given you thus far and wait for others to respond. Then ask questions once you understand what is being said and we as a group will take you through this one step at a time.
It is about control, rockx and you don't let the birds control anything, but the spin.
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"Left leaning communist pinko @#%* and Masturbator"
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Nick Siders
Last Edited by on Feb 27, 2010 12:08 AM
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steve49
428 posts
Feb 27, 2010
6:10 AM
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couldn't have said it better than Nick. no matter what your foundation is, you will never always have exact replicas of the parents. so, unless you flyout the young, how will you know which ones are good enough to stock?
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Steve in Blue Point, NY
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1658 posts
Feb 27, 2010
6:20 AM
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I started with three birds, one cock and two hens as my breeders. With the use of fosters I bred as many as I could from these three birds. I first mated the cock and best hen for four rounds allowing the hen to sit the forth round. When she was ready, I fostered another three rounds from her and then broke the pair up. I repeated the process for three rounds with the second hen and then armed with all the young birds my kit box will hold I stopped breeding for the year.
I then flew the young birds hard, twice a day to start, then once a day as they matured and finally cutting back to every other day when they started coming into the roll. From all of my surviving young birds (B.O.P.) I chose only the best young cock and best young hen to breed to their parents, plus the best young cock from my second mating to breed to his mother. All remaining birds are disposed of or holdover if worthy.
I repeated the mating as before, with the best young cock on his mother and the best young hen on her father and the use of fosters. If I had another great young hen, (starting from one pair) I would breed her to the foundation cock in the breakup period starting a new line to be bred parallel with the original only to be used in the eventual (possible) need for an in cross.
Here is were I differ from strict line breeding. In the next season, I breed the granddaughter and grandson to the foundation pair along with a second mating of father to daughter and son to mother from the second breeding season.
With in this scheme only breed the very best, choosing the quality’s you want and eliminating the ones you do not. Most will not stick with their plan but become sidetracked or lose focus.
This is not the only way, just my way. Nothing is written in stone but I urge you to give what every method you choose a chance to work.
Thom
Last Edited by on Feb 27, 2010 6:26 AM
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Windjammer Loft
1074 posts
Feb 27, 2010
8:33 AM
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No need for further explanation.... Nick and Thom already said it... Good luck
Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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rockx.559
163 posts
Feb 27, 2010
8:38 AM
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Thanks for the replies.
Nick what you had just said is very true because breeding whatever will get birds with whatever...so if I could foster the eggs each time and fly out the youngs. There will be a higher success than letting them do their own thing. And would you say that if I choose the best daughter back to the father and son back to mother will be a good start from there? I see what your talking about.
Thanks again for the replies
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
713 posts
Feb 27, 2010
9:35 AM
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559...You never have seen your foundation pair in the air? That could be a problem from the get go.Hopefully he or she told you the trough and they have good spin behind them.you need to get some youngsters up. Breed some, fly them and hope for the best and go from there.JDA
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JMUrbon
924 posts
Feb 27, 2010
10:24 AM
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Personally I would attempt to get at least one more hen and work with a little broader gene pool. The bro/sis pairings time after time could get really interesting. I have done it a single season but not many pairs and year after year. Just my opinion but probably not a good practice. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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Bill C
502 posts
Feb 27, 2010
11:52 AM
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I really hesitate to encourage breeding with out flying them out for the reason mentioned. BUT,
If I was starting out, you could certainly do this as an experiment. There are no short cuts. It all takes time and experience. Like Joe said if you got one more good hen, you would be ahead of your EXPERIMENT. It might work for one guy or one pair and be a total waste of time for another pair or guy.
Once you fly out the offspring you will then have to keep good records to tell you which are throwing the goods which we all have to do with flying them out also.
You will be breeding from a few out birds, roll down here or there and tree sitter and a few average birds and a few good birds. These traights will be bred into your breeding stock until you start picking the best ones out of the air. Even then you could have a problem down the line if you picked a rolldown that had not shown its true identity yet.
New guys are always chasing the rainbow and never quite get to it. You could try it and be successful or raise more culls then you ever wanted to work with over the next few years. If you can afford the time to foster, then mass produce them and foster them and save a few years for yourself.
if you email me privately I will tell you an experiment I have done with sucess but will not promote it on the air, because it was a gambel that worked. I dont want to give the worng impresion to new guys. But to experiment it does not mean you ruined your stock, it means if it does not work you cull and start over with the same originals. BIll C
cridercrader@aol.com
Last Edited by on Feb 27, 2010 11:55 AM
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rockx.559
164 posts
Feb 27, 2010
12:23 PM
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Thanks Bill & Joe & Thom I will considered this too
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
4169 posts
Feb 27, 2010
3:11 PM
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rockx - by putting the best hen back to the father and best cock back to the mother then doubles your breeding pairs as well. Then you would repeat that with the next generation you would then have 4 breeding pairs with probably better results.
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"Left leaning communist pinko @#%* and Masturbator"
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Nick Siders
Last Edited by on Feb 27, 2010 4:46 PM
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toronto15
300 posts
Feb 27, 2010
3:23 PM
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Thom, I like your method of breeding. Thanks for sharing.Glen.
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1660 posts
Feb 27, 2010
4:53 PM
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Thanks, Glen you are welcome! That's my plan and I'm sticking to it! :) I am getting consistently better birds and I believe in line breeding/in breeding with selection. Having the persistence to allow the program to work is the hard part but I'm a contrary oldfart! :)
Thom
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