highroller
12 posts
Jul 11, 2004
4:50 PM
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A question for you genetic buffs out there...I have a young bird that has feathers all the way down it's legs and down the center toe. What is the correct term for this? I have heard of "Boots" & "Muffs". It is from a brother X sister mating. If it proves good enough to stock would breeding it back to it's parent bring out more completely feathered feet?
Last Edited by highroller on Jul 11, 2004 4:51 PM
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
95 posts
Jul 11, 2004
5:10 PM
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Technically that would be considered "grouse", though in the backyard jargon of pigeons some refer to that as boots. Muffs are when the feathers cover the toes and extend outward with quilled shafts. Feathers on the feet is a hard one to figure out. You can mate a clean leg to a grouse and get no some grouse and some clean legs or no grouse at all. You can mate a true muff to a clean leg and almost all will be grouse. Regardless, the feathers on the feet have nothing to do with the way the birds will perform, therefore if you like it, you have the ingredients to breed more if you so choose.
Brian.
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SlipSpur
8 posts
Dec 31, 2005
9:40 PM
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I bought 4 more pair today, nice birds, from a breeder of 40+ years... he breeds the best to the best and keeps exellent records, he has several record books going WAY back... a pair is grouse legged and I was kinda concerned, glad ta hear it's no big deal.
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Alohazona
100 posts
Jan 01, 2006
2:00 AM
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I'm interested to hear what line of rollers,have feathers on their feet,especially ones that go back 40 years.
Mine are smith -Plona based......Aloha,Todd
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SlipSpur
9 posts
Jan 01, 2006
3:13 AM
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Well, I'm not up on the blood lines yet ( have heard of Pensoms ), but I got these from David Johnson... he was calling them " Taylors ".
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upcd
124 posts
Jan 01, 2006
4:05 AM
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Feather foots have been around as long as roller have. They are quiet common. If you are in it for the roll no problem. I think they can cause problems in the show ring if you are not in the right class.
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SlipSpur
10 posts
Jan 01, 2006
8:13 AM
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I'm definatly in them for the roll... David has several trophies from where he's shown his birds and I did meet him at the Shawnee Okla show... I asked around for roller guys with good birds and everyone sent me his way. When breeding our other birds ( OEGB's & Standard game fowl ) I'm a purest, anything that they shouldn't have ( color, feather, what ever ) and they get culled. I just didn't know about the feathers on the legs, I know David is and has always bred for the roll. I caught him after he sold down to his keepers, I told him I didn't want feather legs, but to get the 4 pair I wanted, I had to take some. I beleive he fixed me up....... I won't worry about the grouse legs anymore...Thanks
Last Edited by SlipSpur on Jan 01, 2006 8:19 AM
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ROLLERMAN
14 posts
Jan 01, 2006
8:43 AM
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i have an oil painting of a bunch of rollers that is over 100 years old and half of the birds in it are grouse leg in it. as a young boy i had a bunch of grouse leged birds. back then they were either caspersons or whitinghams. they were one of the 1st strains ti inter this country i think ???
al
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motherlodelofts
517 posts
Jan 01, 2006
9:06 AM
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Slip I would say that it is just the chactoristics of that family, some lines will show this although thier have been a few jokers that have crossed in wests to get heavier muffs.
I was told along time ago that if they have feathers on the back of the hock that they are crosses where real Birminghams don't.
That same friend has a old line of Smiths that are very good that carry muffs, I once had a line that carried grouse legs which is more common than actual muffs.
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Jan 01, 2006 9:09 AM
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nicksiders
328 posts
Jan 01, 2006
10:31 AM
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I was under the impression there is a difference between "grouse legged" and "boots". Both have been in the roller family since the beginning. Grouse legs are feathers down the leg and started over the feet, but no feathers on the feet (toes). Boots is when the feathers go down the leg and most of the feet are covered.
It is all about what family you have.
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Alohazona
101 posts
Jan 01, 2006
11:08 AM
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Interesting...Taylor is in the background of my birds as well,through Charles McFae who kept pure Taylors.
The only difference between clean or grouse leg to the heavier muffed roller is the heavier muffed birds tend to hang their feet alittle lower because the quills dont tuck up,as well .I dont think it effects performance though,since they are bred for roll, not speed.......Aloha,Todd
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Mount Airy Lofts
63 posts
Jan 02, 2006
12:39 PM
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My family is based around Stan Plona via J. Leroy Smith birds. I see groused legged birds crop up all the time. The muffs are bred every now and then. I can breed out of two non grouse legged birds and still get grouse legged youngs if the parents carry this gene.
I like the feathers on their leggs but don't breed for it. Don't need too because it crops up alot in my line of birds. Other people don't like this and would pair accordingly to aviod it.
People tell us guys to breed away from grouse leggs or muffs. This is because they don't look good in the show pen. No difference in their airel performance that I can see.
Good luck with your birds -
Thor
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SlipSpur
14 posts
Jan 05, 2006
9:26 AM
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I finally had time to read the note's and pedigree's Dave sent... looks like these birds are Taylor and Westfall, with some 3/4 foundation birds. The one's we have from Bill didn't come with any pedigree but he's gotten a lot of birds from David... I'm going to keep them seperated, at least for a while.
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ezeedad
319 posts
Feb 06, 2008
8:35 PM
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Pensom wrote this...
Next on the list is Harry Bellfield of Cradley Heath, Staff's. He was a most unassuming man, and as successful with his pigeons as he was with his business. He liked a Roller, and nothing but the swiftest and straightest spinners pleased him. His birds were varied in color and pattern, both clean legged and muffed. He did not keep as many as did Bill Richards because for one thing he was victim to the wiles of his many admirers who constantly contrived to get pigeons from him at any price. There are few who are proof against such acute agitation. H. Bellfield was noted for an outstanding grizzle cock which was a wizard in the air. It was one of the most reliable pigeons that ever flew. As a stock bird this cock was responsible for most of the good pigeons flown at any loft which had been fortunate enough to acquire offspring of this bird.
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c robbo
39 posts
Feb 07, 2008
7:43 AM
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yes . when u in breed like that you will get folts like crests and muffs rolldowns. in my apinion i wood not go that close it will couse u trubbel.
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