winwardrollers
453 posts
Apr 09, 2010
9:32 AM
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What have you seen and found as you have worked on creating your family to the point you have them now and what will you do to improve them in the years to come? How has inbreeding, line breeding, or crossbreeding helped you develop your birds?
bwinward
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winwardrollers
454 posts
Apr 09, 2010
9:44 AM
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Here is a list of some of the breeders behind you rollers....Homer Corderre - Richard Apadoca - Dennis Gordair - Karl Krebs - Ron Kumro - Joe Houghton - Bill Torress - Richard Espinoza - David Sanchez - William Pensom - Charlie Saldana - Hans Roettenbacher - Monty Neible - Mike Gordon - Dick Stephens - Bill Kamp - Bruce Cooper - J.Leroy Smith - Stan Plona -
Out of some of the later breeders who do you feel has made the greatest impact in your loft?
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johnjay
59 posts
Apr 09, 2010
11:17 AM
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Interesting !!!
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I am never oppressed by the narrow confines of my existence.
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winwardrollers
455 posts
Apr 09, 2010
11:33 AM
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Joey
Tony is not on the list, it's a breeder or two before him that I am looking for. Tony has made them his own over the year but certainly did not make something out of nothing. Most breeders will give guys before them at least some credit.
Joey, don't see Bill Patrick on his list can you.
bwinward
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2010 11:42 AM
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Scott
2992 posts
Apr 09, 2010
12:35 PM
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Brad.. wasn't Bill Patrick known more for a duel purpose type bird ? Even today there are still a few around that still breed for such pigeons.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
778 posts
Apr 09, 2010
12:55 PM
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winy...Who would you say did the matings from the get go, putting together and culling? Tony not the people you mention above.JDA
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
779 posts
Apr 09, 2010
1:14 PM
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scott....Any good true Bill Pensom roller should show and just rip the sky up with roll. If the breeder knows how to breed rollers with pedigrees that go with no out crossing to the original imports like Bill Patrick did.JDA
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Scott
2993 posts
Apr 09, 2010
1:42 PM
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Yea that is what they tried to say Joe.. but in reality it didn't quite work out that way .. just talking about birds ripping up the sky doesn't work any more.
We are in a put em up and fly them for all to see era .. something that the duel purpose show guys almost killed at one time.. the breed as a performance bird was almost a thing of the past in this country due to that thought... thankfully those days are over for the most part and the major flys dominate the breed for what it was breed for... good luck
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2010 2:36 PM
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winwardrollers
456 posts
Apr 09, 2010
2:00 PM
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Scott
I had a guy call a few day ago wanting flying rollers to show with. According this guy, that shows birds nationally, the fly roller is the new and up coming thing. Think of it this way....a great place to get rid of any culls...Lol Then again what a waste now matter how you think of it. His own word were "you know that they are not the same bird"..when comparing show/fly rollers.
bwinward
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2010 2:19 PM
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winwardrollers
457 posts
Apr 09, 2010
2:11 PM
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Tony
If I am reading it right, Sal Estrada worked collected the birds together and then you mainly worked over Sal's workings, through out the years. Or in other words you didn't go out and feed new blood in to your breeding program you just worked what you started with from the beginning.
bwinward
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2010 2:19 PM
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Sound Rollers
297 posts
Apr 09, 2010
2:14 PM
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Tony, disregard my e-mail, I received the book today it looks like its going to be a great read.
John
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Scott
2994 posts
Apr 09, 2010
2:14 PM
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Brad.. it is aleady happening to a degree even in some of the shows today where flyers hang out.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2010 2:15 PM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3974 posts
Apr 09, 2010
2:18 PM
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Hey Brad, if you will spend a minimal amount of time on the following link, you will get the full picture:
CLICK HERE
So yes, for the last 17 years, I have worked with 1 group of birds.
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FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria
Your Own Custom Telephone # Bands
The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.” – Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2010 2:22 PM
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winwardrollers
458 posts
Apr 09, 2010
2:26 PM
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Tony
Your 3973 post today gives me more info. than the link. I would Stick that post with the link.
bwinward
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3975 posts
Apr 09, 2010
3:23 PM
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Brad, got it!
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FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria
Your Own Custom Telephone # Bands
The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.” – Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
780 posts
Apr 09, 2010
4:46 PM
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Scott.... You haven,t been in rollers long enough to even know what duel purpose from Pensom true family could and would do in the air.You are talking duel purpose from the show roller late 70,s and 80,s PRC group. You received good stock from KGB to start your family.Don,t you dare try to say Bill Patrick Pensom stock were just show birds when you have never ever watched them in the air or anywhere.JDA
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2010 5:13 PM
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Scott
2995 posts
Apr 09, 2010
7:55 PM
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Buddy.. been around longer than you think.. now you know what I'm going to say next don't you LOOL .. lets put them up Joe.. not just talk about sky screaming duel purpose show pigeons.
As for my birds.. yea all it takes is getting some birds from the right person.. start breeding and then you are home free and can't go wrong..easy as dat
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2010 8:08 PM
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
782 posts
Apr 09, 2010
9:39 PM
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scott...Your nothing,You have no respect for the pioneers of the hobby with the promoting of pure Pensom stock.(You don,t exist as far as I,am concerned.)JDA
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2010 10:26 PM
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JMUrbon
1013 posts
Apr 09, 2010
9:53 PM
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Joe You and I go back a long ways so dont take this the wrong way but the birds Bill Patrick flew and the birds of today are of no comparison. Yes you would get the occasional great bird but in todays rollers the great birds are quite plentiful. Why did you go to the Ruby's if the Patrick birds are what you desired. Probably for the same reason I changed from the Chan Grover birds years ago. Instead of an occasional great bird I can try to focus on an entire kit of them. I seen some good kits at your house in the past but nothing compared to the top kits of this day and age. Again Joe dont take this the wrong way it just how I see things these days. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
783 posts
Apr 09, 2010
10:16 PM
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Joe...Ruby,s were just an experiment after I retired and had not gone down to LA yet to get my Patrick family from Gene Giegoldt after Patrick,s passing. So now I have two family,s. That,s the why of it.And they both spin. your friend JDA
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Scott
2996 posts
Apr 09, 2010
10:26 PM
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Lets see what they are made of Joe... lets pit them against each other and have some fun... it will be known as the clash of the Pensoms .. let see if the show birds actually can hang against the non show birds.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2010 10:27 PM
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
784 posts
Apr 09, 2010
10:30 PM
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post 782
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2010 10:50 PM
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Scott
2997 posts
Apr 09, 2010
10:42 PM
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Good luck with em Joe.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2010 10:44 PM
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
785 posts
Apr 09, 2010
10:48 PM
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post 782
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Scott
2998 posts
Apr 10, 2010
5:45 AM
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Joe.. read your post 779 and my post 2993 & 2996
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Apr 10, 2010 6:18 AM
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Scott
2999 posts
Apr 10, 2010
7:08 AM
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Joe.. it is always the same with these kinds of pigeons.. people hold onto them for sentimental reason.. and they keep telling themselfs that they are just too inbred.
Next they start crossing them trying to get something out of them.. when in reality all they are doing is down breeding what ever they are crossing in.
The fact is .. the real root of the problem is the wrong selection for the wrong reasons and or the pedigree breeding that has taken place over the years... being honest with ourselfs where our birds are concerned is very critical if we are to ever truely enjoy what the breed has to offer... these kind of pigeons are what gives the old Pensom blood a bad rap.
Now that we friends get out there and fire up those briquettes with those pretty 514 pedigrees and have a feast while you are mulling over what to now fill those empty perces with.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Apr 10, 2010 7:47 AM
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
786 posts
Apr 10, 2010
9:20 AM
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post 782
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winwardrollers
459 posts
Apr 10, 2010
9:43 AM
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Joe
The guy I got my start of birds from has visited lofts all around the Inter-mountain West years back.
He says not only the birds but the feeding methods were very minimal early on.
Like may father has said to me "Don't want to go back to the day's without lights and latrines those were the good old days for sure, I'll just remember them as such.."Just good old days".
Your a bit feisty for a retired guy...lol
bwinward
Last Edited by on Apr 10, 2010 9:47 AM
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