Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1715 posts
Apr 10, 2010
5:11 PM
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Is the spin in the bird or in the feed can? How much is controlled by feed? Can average birds preform better by what they are fed? I will not ask if good birds can be harmed, I know they can. Guru's mentoring time! :)
Thom
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rookie from ct
GOLD MEMBER
258 posts
Apr 10, 2010
6:54 PM
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Thom my friend i just recently picked up a pair of birds and had a good conversation with the breeder on do the birds have the roll or dose the feed have the roll and as what i expected to hear the bird has the roll not the feed the feed has the and not enough feed has the roll down
, not the roll Dennis
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gotspin7
2658 posts
Apr 10, 2010
7:22 PM
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Good Afternoon Thom and list, first off let me ask how long ahs the bird been on the wing? If the bird was locked down for a period of time give it time the roll should come, now if it is a bird that has flown straight for a couple seasons and is not rolling it is not worth feeding.In my opinion, I do not mean any disrespect to anyone on the list. Keeping it real fellas! Good luck!
---------- Salvador Ortiz
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1716 posts
Apr 11, 2010
4:30 AM
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Hey Salvador, I did not mean any bird in particular but rollers in general. My point is, I think good birds can be ruined by bad practices with feed but if the roll is not in the bird even the best regime will not induce it to roll.
Thom
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3976 posts
Apr 11, 2010
6:49 AM
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Hey Thom, your question strikes me this way, "is it nature or is it nurture"? I would say that the birds genetics (ability to perform) will be enhanced or hurt by management practices (food, training, age, etc). Nurture will enhance what nature has provided.
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FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria
Your Own Custom Telephone # Bands
The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.” – Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
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Velo99
2282 posts
Apr 11, 2010
6:59 AM
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I have to agree to an extent with T on this one. We have heard many stories over the years of guys who have had a key bird die or removed from a kit change the performance of a kit to a less than desirable level never to be regained.
It has happened to me as recently as a few weeks ago.
My good kit was rocking and rolling for three or four times out after the winter layoff. I thought I had the handle on them and was on my way to a Q spot in the WC. A week later they looked like homers.
I am getting a few good breaks but nothing like what I was getting out of them. I have tried to recreate the set up and have yet to do it.I guess temperature and lengthening days have moved the set up out of reach.
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V99
blue sky single beat
in cadance performing now
earth beckons the winged
drawn breath is let quickly forth
orchestral movement follows
___ ~_____ _
\__\_/-|_| \__\____
/()_)__14___()_)\__\
Last Edited by on Apr 11, 2010 7:02 AM
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1717 posts
Apr 11, 2010
8:35 AM
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Nicely stated Tony, I agree.
Thom
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Pinwheel
203 posts
Apr 11, 2010
4:56 PM
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would I be accurate in saying that with nurturing a high class performer, there would be a marked difference in performance, whereas, a mediocre/average bird with proper nurturing will have marginal gains?
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Flying in someone else's backyard: Portable Kits
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JMUrbon
1016 posts
Apr 11, 2010
5:24 PM
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Some famlies of rollers need to be manipulated into rolling and for those families I would say that management is key to this. Knowing how to get the best out of the birds you have weather it be with feed or not. Being A good manager that pays attention to their birds and what they need to perform is what we all strive to be. The hard part is finding out just the rite combination. Joe
I would also like to add that what works for one doesnt always work for another. Even if the birds are from the same family. Climate has alot to do with how you manage a team of birds.
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
Last Edited by on Apr 11, 2010 10:12 PM
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gotspin7
2659 posts
Apr 11, 2010
7:45 PM
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Gentlemen, WOW, I missed the post entirely...lol.. Now I see were you were headed, well said Tony and Joe... If you are all flying the WC this year, I wish you luck! I hope you wish me some too, as I will need it..lol
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Salvador Ortiz
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JMUrbon
1017 posts
Apr 11, 2010
10:10 PM
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Sal I wish you all the best in the WC. I hope all that patricipate get out of their birds what they expect. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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wishiwon2
324 posts
Apr 12, 2010
12:28 AM
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Thom and rest,
Tony said it well, good managment makes good birds shine. The opposite is true too.
Im going to stick my neck out here ... I believe a good manager can get about a 50% improvement by tuning them up for a fly vs everyday training flight. You cannot keep them at peak for any extended length of time. They cycle up and down. A kits best performance could be half again better compared to their average. In terms of scoring if they average 10 breaks in a flight you can manage them upwards of 15, if they average give you 100 raw pts you should be able to dial them up to 150 raw pts if they avg 15 ft you could get 20 out of them.
By improvement I mean you can or ought to be able to get more work out of them, get them spinning a bit tighter and faster, breaking more cleanly and together and maybe influence some greater depth too by your managemnt practices (feed and flytime). The 3 traits I am able to influence the most by feeding/flying is frequency, quality of spin and teamwork.
I do not believe you can make rollers with faults (such as wingswitchers, plate rollers, axle wingers, dishrags etc) roll well through different management.
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Jon
If it were easy, everybody would do it
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bman
757 posts
Apr 12, 2010
5:11 AM
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Hey Kenny H. the first thing I figured out these birds are like a Nascar race, the track is constantly changing and you have to adjust. Now if I can figure out which way I being doing better.LOL
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Ron
Borderline lofts
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J_Star
2290 posts
Apr 12, 2010
5:41 AM
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Some families are on the stiff side while others on the active side. However, feed can pretty much manipulate their work rate to get them ALL hitting on all 8 cylinders in unison if managed correctly, otherwise, the opposite is true.
Jay
Last Edited by on Apr 12, 2010 5:41 AM
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Windjammer Loft
1095 posts
Apr 12, 2010
8:00 AM
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I believe that there is nothing I can add, that hasn't already been said. Good participation guys...
P.S. But, you know that their are some guys here that will "argue" this point to the end...???...lol
Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Apr 12, 2010 8:02 AM
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Scott
3002 posts
Apr 13, 2010
9:37 AM
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Management is absolutly every thing..and it takes alot of dedicated time and effort... with out this dedicated time and effort you might as well raise Fantails because it doesn't matter if the spin is there or not.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Apr 13, 2010 9:38 AM
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Scott
3003 posts
Apr 13, 2010
9:41 AM
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Joe.. I have never seen stiffs get better with the feed can.. bit there are certainly families that can get to strong if flown hard and rich once mature.
(Some famlies of rollers need to be manipulated into rolling )
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
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BA Rollers
334 posts
Apr 13, 2010
1:28 PM
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The spin has to be in the birds, and the manager must learn to manage it effectively with the feed can. Spend enough time with a group of birds and a person will learn that some kinds of feed and the portions in which it is given can have both positive and negative effects on the roll performance.
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JMUrbon
1018 posts
Apr 13, 2010
4:19 PM
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Not what I was refering to Scott. What I was refering to is the birds that have to be cut to get the potential out of them. Not stiffs. A stiff is a stiff. I have seen this and I am sure you have. The birds I am referring to will roll they just either sky out or the roll is very seldom. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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Scott
3004 posts
Apr 13, 2010
9:38 PM
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You just described my birds here.
(What I was refering to is the birds that have to be cut to get the potential out of them)
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
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JMUrbon
1019 posts
Apr 14, 2010
6:33 PM
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Not intentionally Scott.LOL Actually this is a good example of how good of a manager you are. You have figured out what it takes to get the most from your birds and do it consistantly. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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