Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
651 posts
May 07, 2010
9:04 AM
|
As I understand it Jim and Sal are the Region 5 qualifiers. Congratulations and good luck gentlemen !!
----------
Keep em Spinning
Joe
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
4028 posts
May 07, 2010
9:51 AM
|
Congratulations guys! Wish you both the best of luck in the finals.
----------
FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria
The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.” – Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
|
155
1206 posts
May 07, 2010
12:48 PM
|
GOOD JOB GUYS!! SAL YOU THE MAN BRO
----------
~ Jose Jimenez Aka Evilloft ~
Compton ca ,Mesa Az
.Going all Higgins this Year.
|
mikea
39 posts
May 07, 2010
12:54 PM
|
we have to realy seasoned flyers ref region 5. and two
great guys. congratsulation. your comp.
mike allen
|
Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1759 posts
May 07, 2010
2:47 PM
|
Congratulations, Gentlemen !
Thom
|
RUDY..ZUPPPPP
GOLD MEMBER
2954 posts
May 07, 2010
7:42 PM
|
Congratulations two good friends.........
Jim Bowen and Sal ortiz..........
----------
RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
|
birdman
823 posts
May 07, 2010
7:50 PM
|
Congratulations and good luck to both of you!
Russ
|
Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
652 posts
May 08, 2010
8:17 AM
|
Thanks to Joe Urbon for coming out to the hinterlands to judge our region. It was a pleasure to meet him and share a short time with him talking pigeon!
----------
Keep em Spinning
Joe
|
JBow
164 posts
May 08, 2010
10:54 AM
|
Thanks to all of you. I really enjoyed meeting Joe Urbon. We all had a great time. Jim Bowen
|
gotspin7
2666 posts
May 09, 2010
7:59 AM
|
Thanks guys!!
It is a honor to represent the Central region along my good friend Jim Bowen... I know Jimmy will kill them in the finals! Good luck to all the finalist!
----------
Salvador Ortiz
|
Scott
3029 posts
May 09, 2010
8:25 AM
|
Good job guys !! And may you bomb in the finals LOL
----------
Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
|
fhtfire
2525 posts
May 09, 2010
9:04 AM
|
I second that Scott and I hope they feel the same about us...LOL
rock and ROLL
Paul
|
JBow
166 posts
May 09, 2010
10:13 PM
|
Scott Your a hoot. Thanks for making me laugh. Good luck to you and good luck to Paul. Jim Bowen
|
Richard
134 posts
May 10, 2010
1:07 PM
|
Good show you guys May the roller gods favor you both in the final
RIchard
|
wishiwon2
329 posts
May 10, 2010
9:54 PM
|
Congrats you 2!, Very deserving guys. Jim especially congrats after getting blown out in the wind last fall, and Sal, you're making a habit outta winning fella. Good luck in the finals, boys.
----------
Jon
If it were easy, everybody would do it
|
gotspin7
2667 posts
May 11, 2010
10:12 AM
|
Scott, thanks for the good laugh!! I hope you and Paul do well in representing your region...
Thanks Richard.
Jon, I got lucky this go around as I did last year. I wish you well in the finals too my friend.
----------
Salvador Ortiz
|
Mark_Wilson
37 posts
May 11, 2010
6:57 PM
|
Jim and Sal congrats i want to wish both of you alot of luck in the finals.
|
macsrollers
301 posts
May 11, 2010
8:38 PM
|
Congratulations on your accomplishments. Look forward to flying against you in the finals! Now if the BOP and wind would just give me a week of peace! Oh well, we all face Mother Nature's wrath one way or another!
Enjoy your next fly! Don M. Mac's Rollers
|
Scott
3041 posts
May 20, 2010
8:59 PM
|
Hey guys.. I didm't mean it literaly !!! Are we gluttons for punisment or what ?
This is why I respect anyone that is willing to put them up and put their feet to the coals ... my noose will be danging monday GULP LOL
( And may you bomb in the finals LOL)
----------
Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on May 20, 2010 9:03 PM
|
JBow
167 posts
May 20, 2010
10:26 PM
|
Scott I had a few problems but in the end it was conditions plain and simple. I never thought i would even qualify with the losses i've had. Scott i've been really down and out about it all. I think qualifying and having the wc judge at my home kinda lit a fire under my old ars. Scott good luck in the final. jim bowen
|
mikea
40 posts
May 21, 2010
7:20 AM
|
jim get alot of wood for the fire next year. your
old arse is going to need it. and congratsulation
your friend mike allen
|
nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
4335 posts
May 21, 2010
12:31 PM
|
I am not buying 1.0 and a 1.0; 1.1 and a 1.1. I have watched too many kits flown in the backyards of Jim Bowen and Sal Ortiz to believe this.............sorry fellas, I had to turn this into a bitching thread. But, I could not stand it any longer. I do apologize, honestly.
----------
What Is Life Without Honor?
------------------------------------------
Nick Siders
|
Scott
3043 posts
May 21, 2010
12:40 PM
|
Nick.. there are countless times that I have stood under my own kits and would have given them a 1.0 or 1.1 .. other times that same kit I would have hit em with a 1.6.. it happens ... when I see fly reprts that have most of the kits between 1.4 and 1.7 it gives me absolutly no clue what those kits actaly looked like... it is the same with high scores.
The fact is by the time this guy is done he will be lucky to see even 7 or 8 kits worth mention... good kits are few and far inbetween as it is a tough tough game to bring it all together when it counts... come Monday I will probably be humbled also .. but one thing that I am sure of.. is if they are at or close to their quality potential he will see it as it will be undeniable.. but trust me when I tell you they can be dog crap also depending on condition and conditions ..it is what it is brother.
----------
Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on May 21, 2010 1:01 PM
|
nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
4336 posts
May 21, 2010
1:28 PM
|
Yeah, I guess I have seen even mine look good at times(LOL). I was totally surprised is all and I got a little defensive. These guys have good pigeons....
----------
What Is Life Without Honor?
------------------------------------------
Nick Siders
Last Edited by on May 21, 2010 1:30 PM
|
JMUrbon
1034 posts
May 21, 2010
3:24 PM
|
Nick I scored these two kits with you by my side so I know what they are capable of but I also know how difficult it is to bring a kit back around to top form in such a short period of time. They had little more than a week and that just isnt enough time. I do know that they both put up a high quality kit the day I judged them. Joe
PS. The same thing has happend to me every time I have qualified for either of the big flies. I have never been able to get the birds back into top form for the finals.
----------
J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
Last Edited by on May 21, 2010 7:58 PM
|
nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
4337 posts
May 21, 2010
7:12 PM
|
I hear ya, Joe
----------
What Is Life Without Honor?
------------------------------------------
Nick Siders
|
gotspin7
2668 posts
May 22, 2010
12:31 PM
|
Guys, what got me was the 5 hour flight delay and I am sticking to that...LOL... Good luck to all the finalist, hope you have a great fly!
----------
Salvador Ortiz
|
Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
653 posts
May 22, 2010
5:15 PM
|
Nick,
Are you saying we have another WC finals judge with his own agenda. If the winner comes out of Australia, you can kiss the integrity of the World Cup goodbye. Just my humble opinion!!
----------
Keep em Spinning
Joe
|
JMUrbon
1036 posts
May 22, 2010
10:49 PM
|
Joe we dont want to even go there. I am very confident in Adriens abilities and feel he will do the best he can in picking the top kit. Joe
----------
J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
|
nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
4338 posts
May 22, 2010
11:14 PM
|
LMAO - Joe B. It could be some payback time(LOL)
----------
What Is Life Without Honor?
------------------------------------------
Nick Siders
|
RUDY..ZUPPPPP
GOLD MEMBER
2956 posts
May 23, 2010
4:03 AM
|
Papa Nick where are those pics u took for the fly....
----------
RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
|
Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
654 posts
May 23, 2010
5:00 AM
|
Joe, I sincerely hope you are right, would hate to see that happen 2 years in a row.
----------
Keep em Spinning
Joe
|
Scott
3044 posts
May 23, 2010
6:38 AM
|
Joe.. what do you mean "two years in a row" ? I never saw anything of the sort last yeasr either.. one thing that I do know is every time you have someone actualy scoreing birds rolling likr real Birminghams doing real breaks you get a lot of crying and poor sportmansip... and that my friend is the root of the probem...The worst judges that we can hope for are the other type.
----------
Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on May 23, 2010 8:42 PM
|
Velo99
2287 posts
May 23, 2010
10:10 AM
|
Guys
Remember the 1/2 second rule is gone. When we watch our birds in the backyard its really easy to get a little slack. A little slack can mean 5-6 breaks or more per 20 minute session.Pretend they belong to someone you dont like when you are judging your birds and you`ll do better in competition.
When I kept score for Adrian he counted a couple I wouldnt have. I dont see an agenda by any means. Adrian is one of those earthy guys.
Marco scored 226. He his kit was on and they performed to the minimum standard. Adrian isnt one of those tight assed judges who watches every little movement looking to discount a break for any reason.
jmho
----------
V99
blue sky single beat
in cadance performing now
earth beckons the winged
drawn breath is let quickly forth
orchestral movement follows
___ ~_____ _
\__\_/-|_| \__\____
/()_)__14___()_)\__\
Last Edited by on May 23, 2010 10:11 AM
|
nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
4339 posts
May 23, 2010
10:29 AM
|
There's that "real Birmingham Roller" stuff again. Hell, that is the reason I don't get scored well is because "no body knows how to judge real Birmingham Rollers". LOL......real Birmingham Rollers, Lordy.
Adrian is doing a great job and I mean that.
I will meet him at the Thibodeaux place; I hope I can make it. Eight hour drives are hard on old fat men. I told Aubrey he better have tight kitting and deep birds for this guy(LMAO).
----------
What Is Life Without Honor?
------------------------------------------
Nick Siders
|
gotspin7
2670 posts
May 23, 2010
12:36 PM
|
Gentlemen and Scott, lol.. Here it is, Adrian is a good judge and I believe he will pick the best kit for the WC fly. I just hope it is someone, in the USA...LOL... On a personal note, my kit did not have what it takes on that particular fly day.
Good luck on your trip Nick.
----------
Salvador Ortiz
|
Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
655 posts
May 23, 2010
2:21 PM
|
Okay Scott, you keep believing that, we will have to agree to disagree. I am glad to hear that Adrian is a first class judge with no agenda. Good luck to the rest of you that have yet to fly. May your birds be at their best!!
----------
Keep em Spinning
Joe
|
mikea
41 posts
May 24, 2010
7:14 AM
|
keep the judge looking up and someone keep
time and we will have agood judge.
mike allen
|
spanky
911 posts
May 24, 2010
8:11 AM
|
GOOD JOB FELLAS
|
Scott
3045 posts
May 24, 2010
7:23 PM
|
Stupid game anyway.. I should have gone fishing instead.
----------
Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
|
Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
656 posts
May 25, 2010
5:52 AM
|
Scott, Come out here to Kansas. We will go walleye fishing and talk about how it could have been.
----------
Keep em Spinning
Joe
|
Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2417 posts
May 25, 2010
8:03 AM
|
Joe Urbon
I would like to simply add, that I do not believe the judge has the duty to "PICK" the "BEST KIT". We have a set of rules, standards and a scoring system that the judge uses to arrive at a numerical score. Whatever kit has the highest numerical score, wins the contest.
The judges "favorite" kit may not necessarily be the kit with the highest score. It's a fine line, but if a judge allows his partiality to count for more than the fly rules, then we have an unpleasant outcome, but this is not to say, honest disagreements with interpretations of the fly rules should be considered "agendas".
Cliff
|
PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3613 posts
May 27, 2010
5:53 AM
|
Congratulations to Jim Bowen and Sal ortiz.
Hey Sal hear lately from Val?send my regards.
----------
Ralph.
Pigeons are not our whole life, but they damn sure make our lives whole!" ~
|
gotspin7
2671 posts
May 27, 2010
5:59 AM
|
Ralph, my brother how have you been? I talk to the meat head often, the boy is getting HUGE. He now looks like Hulk Hogan, I think they were twins separated at birth...LOL.. I will let him know.... Take care and I hope all is well with you and your family.
----------
Salvador Ortiz
|
JMUrbon
1042 posts
May 27, 2010
10:07 PM
|
Cliff I surely hope you didnt think that I was saying that Adrien was going that route. You dont need to tell me how a kit is chosen. I have been doing this long enough to know that. I think the owner of the birds is irrelevant once the birds are in the air. They must do it in the air in order to score. Joe
----------
J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
|
Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2426 posts
May 28, 2010
5:08 AM
|
Joe
Then we are in agreement . Thanks for clearing that up for us.
Cliff
|
Squabby*32
268 posts
May 30, 2010
9:31 AM
|
REALLY??????? I think we all knew where Joe was coming from prior to his second post on your question..
----------
DJJeffman Spinners
ATAPWGIYAHTLY
|
Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2432 posts
Jun 01, 2010
6:07 AM
|
Squabby*32
When a flyer with the experience Joe has, makes a statement that" the Judge picks the best kit" , I felt that I knew what he meant but I wanted to be sure. We hear some real good information on this list, but we also hear some things that need a bit more clarification.
The winner of a roller contest is determined by determining which kit scored the most points. The judge "estimates" the number of birds performing, but the judge does not PICK the best kit. This in not a beauty contest where the judge, DOES pick the winner.
The 1-2-3 scoring system is used by the judge to award points based on a set criteria of performance within a limited time frame. Which ever kit scores highest, wins the contest regardless if it is the judges favorite/best kit or not.
WE actually have some flyers who believe that the judge DOES pick the winner and nothing could be further from the truth. The judge operates within the guidelines of the 1-2-3 system to help him arrive at a numerical number, the kit with the highest number wins. The judge can't forecast the winner till the last kit has flown and the total score determined. The SCORES pick the winners. The judge simply "estimates" the number of birds performing and assigns multipliers. If the judge just picked the best kit, then we wouldn't need a 1-2-3 scoring system. It is a fine line to be sure, but it is an important distinction.
Example:
Kit "A", fly's 20 minutes in nice figure-eight patterns with cluster breaks on each end with 8-15 birds per break, no out birds. A thing of beauty!
Kit "B" fly's 16 minutes mostly on the left wing with predictable 5 bird breaks each time they fly into the wind, very few half turns and many breaks un-scored due to out birds, but A very busy kit with many many breaks.
Kit "A" Scored 250 points D= 1.6 Q= 1.7
Kit "B" Scored 251 points D=1.4 Q=1.4
Decide for yourself, which kit was "BEST" and which kit scored the highest score. Did the "best " kit win? If the best kit did NOT win.... WHY? Did the judge pick the best kit or did the judge just follow the rules and allow the 1-2-3 system to arrive at a numerical score? Looks can be decieving.
Cliff
|
Squabby*32
273 posts
Jun 02, 2010
12:57 AM
|
Good info. Thanks for clarifying. Communication is a very hard thing to get across a lot of the time, whether it's verbal, written, or passed via word of mouth. Words or phrases have different meanings to different people, depending how educated they may be some times. I always proof read mostly everything I type to make sure it is what I was trying to get across to the masses and it will not be misconstrued as something else (works most of the time). I realize that nobody is perfect and all may make mistakes at one time or another. Thanks again for clarifying.
----------
DJJeffman Spinners
ATAPWGIYAHTLY
|
rolleronnie
64 posts
Jun 05, 2010
12:58 AM
|
HAHA! I love reading these threads... Almost an exact repeat of last years World Cup. Adrian is as fair a judge as you are going to get, he judges the kits as he sees them and without any biases. The Australian qualifier will be judged as equally as any kit from any other country. Everybody wants a fair competition, including Adrian.
----------
Promoting The Birmingham Roller
The Greatest Aerial Acrobat!
Come Fly With Us!
|