Joe Valdivia
22 posts
Jul 08, 2010
4:03 PM
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I have a pair of ruby's which produce beautiful looking offspring, i actually plan to base my birds off of this single pair, the only problem is i have seen only one come into the spin really nice. I have a pair of peregrines that have been here for the last 3 months and are really doing a number on my 2 kits, i am actually planning to stop flying soon. Is it a good idea to stock some of my remaining ruby's without seeing their true ability, i really want to actually make progress with my program as opposed to losing my best birds, which happened last year.
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
893 posts
Jul 08, 2010
4:50 PM
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Joe.... Under the legal slaughter that we have to contend with and the quality of Tony,s family, Hell yes stock and build your family from what you have.Look at your pedigrees for 644D dark check hen,build around the birds carrying her. You will fined that all of them could have her on one or both sides of the paper.JDA
Last Edited by on Jul 08, 2010 9:32 PM
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1906 posts
Jul 08, 2010
5:20 PM
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Joe, Ruby's have the goods. However, without flying them not even Tony can tell you which to keep. I was decimated for a whole breeding season by a resident family of Cooper Hawks, but planed for next year, that year. Choosing breeders in the dark is very haphazard but can be done. What follows pertains to my take and observations on Ruby's and no other strain or birds! Without flying, I would choose the cock's that are calm in hand. They have a presence that draws your eye even when you are holding another bird, you find yourself sneaking a peak at them. They are tight and hard in hand, and have little back cover, or their back feathers are sparse and short so as to not inhibit tail flex. Short rather then long, small rather then big, but above all, hard in hand. I know but I like a hard tight bird! :)
The hens are much the same only smaller. I like a lot of back skull on both cock's and hen's. O.K., I'm going to catch it for this but!, in the dark, without looking at the bird, hold the bird loosely if it quivers or vibrates, it's a keeper!
Non believers, go into your loft and try it. The birds you like in the air will be the bird that vibrates in hand. :)
Lastly, Joe is right, 644D has produce very good spinners and her blood runs heavy through my loft but so has other Ruby's,if you don't have 644D, you still have a great start. Keep the blood line close and pure and be patient.
Take care
Thom
Last Edited by on Jul 08, 2010 5:29 PM
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Pogohawk
179 posts
Jul 08, 2010
8:57 PM
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Hey Joe, I recently got two birds from Tony. I was planning on stocking them but curiosity got the better of me. One is just FIRE, today she threw down a 50ft no problem, with great control. The other, well......doesn't like to leave the kit box. I plan to stock the deeper bird until the other shows the same potential. Both are younger birds so I feel the second bird should at least have a chance to come into the spin. I would say its risky stocking from the dark but that doesn't mean you can't get good results. Even birds that spin like crazy sometimes refuse to produce in the breeding loft. And like wise, sometimes birds that don't show the most potential in the air seem to breed nicely. I would simply recommend keeping your line pure and pairing your birds accordingly, the chances of throwing good spinners will be better.
Ty
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wannaroll
215 posts
Jul 09, 2010
12:14 AM
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If the birds are the right type and the genetics are there, I say stock 'em and go for it. Ruby's have the genetics going for them, so your ahead of the game. Tony has taken a lot of the guess work away with his breeding program.
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Dave - Hesperia, CA.
(San Bernardino Mountain Spinners)
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MANN
58 posts
Jul 09, 2010
12:42 AM
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stock the best and fly the rest, stock that 1 bird at lease cause u still have that 1 of pair breeders.
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Scott
3114 posts
Jul 09, 2010
7:42 AM
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Joe.. how can you build something blind folded and expect good results ? in reality you have no clue if the pair is even worth honing around unless you are just working on "beautiful looking offspring" .. the pair I am assuming was unflown.. now the offspring aren't going to be flown out properly .. what you are doing is a sure road to nowhere.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Jul 09, 2010 7:47 AM
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Scott
3115 posts
Jul 09, 2010
7:46 AM
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Ty.. this type of breeding is the reason for the type of inconsistany that you described below.
PS keep flying that deeper one to see if it gets a better handle on it (shortens up) or falls apart.. unless you fly it hard you will not no what you are dropping into your program.. cull the other.
(Hey Joe, I recently got two birds from Tony. I was planning on stocking them but curiosity got the better of me. One is just FIRE, today she threw down a 50ft no problem, with great control. The other, well......doesn't like to leave the kit box. I plan to stock the deeper bird until the other shows the same potential. Both are younger birds so I feel the second bird should at least have a chance to come into the spin. I would say its risky stocking from the dark but that doesn't mean you can't get good results. Even birds that spin like crazy sometimes (refuse to produce in the breeding loft. And like wise, sometimes birds that don't show the most potential in the air seem to breed nicely. I would simply recommend keeping your line pure and pairing your birds accordingly, the chances of throwing good spinners will be better.)
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
4133 posts
Jul 09, 2010
8:18 AM
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Hey Joe, you work with what you got! You take YOUR best and work within the parameters that YOUR flying conditions give YOU and what your tolerance for risk is as it relates to losing a promising bird and losing its value.
As you place such a high value on this bird and feel comfortable stocking it now due to potential for loss or even just want to see what it can produce, I would have no problem doing it, especially as I know the family.
Your next step is to breed the bird hard and produce as many youngsters as you can and fly them out. Keep the original pair that produced this bird and breed even more from them. Always keep your best only (you decide that based on the aerial standard).
Do this repeatedly for a couple seasons, I feel confident in saying that you will breed a fair number of outstanding birds that you can be proud of.
I can guarantee you, the pigeon police will not come for you. Remember, you can always press "RESET" with any new bird that you find that has taken your stock to a new level. You can work your birds several ways simultaneously and all the choices are yours.
I like to fly birds 2 years or longer to get a truly good evaluation of a bird or to simply enjoy its performance. Your ability to tolerate risk will determine if you want to stock it now or fly it out 2 years. If you do stock it, it is NOT a FATAL mistake from which you cannot recover.
You can fly a wonderful spinner for 2 years and it not produce exceptional youngsters, by the same token, you can even stock a bird from the nest and have it produce top birds in your loft.
However, anytime a bird is not living up to being a good pigeon (provided it is not management holding it back) you should consider culling it or raise a round or two and see if you get something better.
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FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria
The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.” – Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
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Joe Valdivia
23 posts
Jul 09, 2010
6:25 PM
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I see 644d on both sides of the pedigrees and i do really appreciate the input from everyone. this is my 2nd year seriously breeding and its gone horribly wrong due to the bop. i have locked my birds down for weeks at a time only to lose 1 or 2 the instant i let them out, its weird because these 2 falcons are hunting together so they never leave empty handed. I think i am just going to stop flying for the year and use what i have next year.
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
894 posts
Jul 09, 2010
8:33 PM
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Joe....Very good choice,Stop flying and breed all you can till next year.You can still have them trap and feed can trained to go from there next season.I have had to shutdown real early this season due to coopers nesting down the street and falcons picking them off when they get some height.So go the best way for you with the hand you have been dealt this season.Breed your self a bunch.JDA
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RodSD
417 posts
Jul 09, 2010
11:24 PM
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Those predators definitely take the fun of flying and breeding because we might not be able to see the full potentials of our birds.
I would say you have to get more birds from Tony or from others. Breed them and fly them. You should not think that the birds you purchased will end up as your stockers because you have not seen how they perform yet.
If you don't breed them now, then you might not end up with anything when those BOP will hit you. For now you are doing a numbers game.
The best case scenario is to actually have a proven stockers that you are breeding. Then you can just fly their babies and see who performs the best.
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