Bluesman
38 posts
Aug 28, 2004
4:42 PM
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I am having some trouble this year with some of my early starters.You know the process.They start rolling good at 3 to 5 month,wingtips start getting sore, start bumping things, hitting the ground etc.You lay them up a few weeks,they start up where they left off,they go in to a moult,Lay them up again,bring them back out to start flying and they don,t want to perform as well as they were before the moult.I fly everyday sometimes twice a day.Am I flying to much before they develop their bodies or what.Thanks,David S.
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Mother lode lofts
143 posts
Aug 28, 2004
5:02 PM
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Dave with my family of birds when they start hitting it hard in the 3-4 month range more than likely they are going to have a hard time getting a handle on it. I will baby them a little but not much. basicly rest and keep em fed up with peas. I'll do this once and only once (rest)depending on circumstance and gut feeling. What they do from that point on determines whether they are culls or not. Personally I don't want to see hard roll untill 6-8 mo old. At this point they are physicly and mentally much more mature to handle it. But feed up the hot one's with plenty of pea's. This will help some of them as it gives them the strength to resist the roll.
Scott
P.S. Dave I owe you an apoligy for some of my past remarks,I hope that you can accept it and we can move on in a positive manor
Last Edited by Mother lode lofts on Aug 28, 2004 5:57 PM
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Bluesman
39 posts
Aug 28, 2004
6:47 PM
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Hey.No Apology needed.And definately no hard feelings.Keep up the good work.David S.
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
203 posts
Aug 28, 2004
8:27 PM
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Dave, when my young birds start rolling solidly, usually when nearly half of them are letting loose with roll commitment, I stop flying every day and only fly them every other day, or back-to-back days, then one day off. Seems they need a little extra rest between hard flying. I use to run them in the ground by pushing them too far by flying them hard every day, which I wasn't aware I was doing at the time. I had them on straight wheat too, which probably didn't help the edgy ones either. Backing off the flying and feeding mix instead has really keep them together for me this season. I am very happy with the results so far and have only had to long term rest one bird, because she hit another bird in the roll. You might try that and see if it helps.
Brian.
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Mother lode lofts
148 posts
Aug 28, 2004
9:12 PM
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Brian just the opposite here,they stiffen up if flown daily, the ones that look like they may have some problems I allways keep fed up more with protien ,it's rare that my youngbirds see straight wheat before six mo.
Scott
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STARFIRE
53 posts
Oct 29, 2004
6:10 PM
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Hey Scott;
I fly my young birds every day I can.Sometimes twice a day.
until they kit good.I have a kit of 18 young birds that have been flying for 5 weeks now.They are kitting pretty good and they are all starting to spin.Some are going about 5 ft.I started with 28 but I lost 5 because a young perrigren falcon chased them for about 20 minutes and chased them away.Then I had 2 roll down on me.Then I had a bunch start to get light and I put them by themselves.I have flown my family every day I can for as long as I have kept birds.If I keep my old kits in more than 2 days they will hit when they come out,because they are 30-40 ft deep.When I chase them out they take off from the ground and go right up.I never rest my birds unless I have to. (bad weather ,rain ,wind.)Mine dont go stiff.and the young ones are fed straight hard wheat as soon as they go into the flypens.Thats all I feed them .In the winter they get whole corn .This young kit is flying over an hour now.And very high .I like to see that till they start to really spin then I cut their feed till they fly the height I want them to.I don't really like them to fly this long at this time of the year,as the longer they fly the more time a hawk has to find them.But they have to fly as I want as much fly time as I can get before I lock them down for the winter.At this age I feed them all they will eat ,when they are done flying,and when they are through eating I toss another handfull to give them a little for the next day.
Stan Arnold
Last Edited by STARFIRE on Oct 30, 2004 11:00 AM
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Mother lode lofts
275 posts
Oct 30, 2004
7:29 AM
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Thanks Stan, I allways enjoy hearing how others handle their birds and it shows just how different these familys are. My young birds are fed a light mix from the time that they hit the kit box until they are 5-6 mo old. And they will get all they want once a day from weaning time until they hit like a pivot point in there young lives where they start trapping slow due to they just no longer need all that they can eat on a daily basis. At this point feed is regulated so that there is no screwing around on the roof when they land. I fly these youngbirds daily also until they start coming well into the roll and which point they start being flown every other day. With these birds that progresses them. once they hit this stage they are starting to fly strong and a bit fast on the mix and that is when the wheat comes into play, I will give them a light mix on fly day and wheat on rest day, once I get enough Young Birds that are well into the roll through out the kit boxes I will put them into the same kitbox. Out of these I'm looking for potenial A team birds but not until they have matured and are solid as far as depth and qaulity of the roll. As for the A-team, these are the old birds and what works well for them on a general basis is the yo-yo system that Monty Neible came up with for managing his birds. Which is three day fly rotation, one day fly and two days rest. the base for the old birds is wheat. But will get periods of a light mix depending on where they are at in condition. There are times that they will be flown daily such as when I am conditioning for a competition or when they have been locked up for a bit for whatever reason. As for releasing the A team, never do I just blow the entire team out of the kitbox all at once, I let them out in 5-7 at a time as it cuts down on the initial excitment of release and helps keep the hotter birds off of the ground. As for my lght mix I use 2 parts wheat,one part milo and one part that is 2/3rds Austrian peas and 1/3 Salflour. This is just a broad general guide and over all condition of the kit also dictates what and how much they get also. In other words if I feel that I need to put some wt. on them they will get the mix for a period of time, If I feel that they need to peel a little wt off then to the straight Wheat we will go along with some hard fly time. If they are heavy into the moult then it's a mix and heavy on Salflour and performance isn't even an issue, The only thing that matters is getting them quickly through the moult so that I can them back on track.
Scott
Last Edited by Mother lode lofts on Oct 30, 2004 7:43 AM
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STARFIRE
55 posts
Oct 30, 2004
4:50 PM
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Scott;
The reason I put them out all at once is that the first ones that go out will not wait for the others and will be practicaly out of site in about 3 minutes.Sometimes some of the others wont go up with them,and I'll have 2 or 3 kits flying till the first ones out decide to come down and join the others.Even the young birds do this..Even Flying them every day ,if I dont watch the feed(old kits)they will fly 3-4 hrs.Peas? What is that ? You want me to spoil them?
None of my birds have never seen a pea.Ever--LOL
Stan Arnold
Last Edited by STARFIRE on Oct 30, 2004 4:54 PM
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Mother lode lofts
280 posts
Oct 31, 2004
7:14 AM
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Stan if I fly my old bird everyday they get Too fly fit. Straight wheat for to long makes my birds to bouyant and it's just to easy for them to fly/float high and long on the thermals, kinda like a feather floating. That is why I don't fly them daily unless it is for a purpose. I want them out of fly condition and I want some wt. stacked on them. That is when the straight wheat comes into play to polish them. There's a reason why fat men dont run marathons, And birds with some wt. on them don't fly as high and for hours at a time. In this condition they are much easier for me to enjoy and on top of it once you turn that weight to muscle it in turn puts qaulity of the roll on a much more consistant basis. Stan without wheat I would be screwed and on the same hand without protein I would be screwed. For me they are tools, the protein gives me a diamond in the rough. And then when it's time the straight wheat polishes that diamond, but if I over polish I have nothing. then I start over again.
Scott
Last Edited by Mother lode lofts on Oct 31, 2004 7:25 AM
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Velo99
256 posts
Mar 12, 2006
7:29 AM
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Scott,
At what point do you change the handling from yb status to an old birds status? I have some birds that are almost a year old. Still changing in some ways and quite set in others. I don`t know when I need to cut back on the flying because they are too fit.
Some days they are good and others all the want to do is fly. I have kept them in on a 3 day rotation before and didn`t like the results. EOD has shown the best results and even that isn`t too reliable because of the weather. I held them in for five wind related days before I finally got to fly on Sat morning. It wasn`t pretty, one bumper,lots of rolls but not too much organization.
I did get a really nice 12 bird turn this morning though. Feeding 1 3/4 cups 50/50 wheat and milo while adding a 1/4 cup of 18% pellets to bump up the protein.
YITS
Kenny H
Last Edited by Velo99 on Mar 12, 2006 7:31 AM
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
685 posts
Mar 13, 2006
3:45 AM
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Scott.Email me at dwsaas@greatcove.net.When my computer crashed a few month ago I lost a bunch of my email addresses.Yours was one of them.Thanks,David
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motherlodelofts
632 posts
Mar 13, 2006
5:58 AM
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Kenny I would say at close to 8 mo is the biginning of maturity or after the first moult , what I do with my birds depends on condition of them.
Take right now for example , my A team is out of shape big time , storm systems keep passing through and busy work wise plus I won't fly them after 3 pm (the A team)so once milder weather settles in they will get flown hard, every day if possible for a while, once they get back into condition and the groove of thinks I'll fly them every 3rd day.
I don't look for a smoken kit every time I fly them , I bring them (try) to that point for a purpose , but I can see some good stuff on any given day also once in condition it is just more inconsistant.
Scott
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