AD3
35 posts
Sep 20, 2004
4:51 PM
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Hello fellow fanciers. Hope all is well :o) A list of the top 5 or 10 historic pigeons would be good to read on here. Can anyone come up with 10 of the most popular rollers in Birmingham Roller history ? For example: I would think that PRC #514 1953 would be placed top 3 on this kind of list.
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AD3 Online Loft @ http://ad3rollers.no-ip.com
Last Edited by AD3 on Sep 20, 2004 5:09 PM
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Slobberknocker
10 posts
Sep 20, 2004
5:32 PM
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I have always heard "Black Rain" and "Lavender Laser" were great pigeons. Bob
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
248 posts
Sep 20, 2004
9:34 PM
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AD, I would have to ask, would this be the best performers or breeders, or ultimately both. I suppose it would be just generalizing what birds and band numbers have marched their way through time, even to this day. I can think of a few numbers that continue to be mentioned and pointed to on pedigrees. 778 and 991 of Norm Reeds...offspring off that pair in probably hundreds of lofts. 272 seemed to be a world class spinner and producer, his band number still used to this day to signify the large family of birds that can somehow be traced back to him. Thor (NBRC 466-88) and Dummy (BCR 7998-78) were quite potent rollers and producers, again names used to signify many, many families of their lineage. IRA 3164-79, a blue bar hen was so potent as a breeder, word is she was used in probably more lofts than any bird I know of. There are probably thousands of rollers in both kit boxes and stock lofts that have her band number on the pedigree.
Brian.
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AD3
36 posts
Sep 20, 2004
10:05 PM
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It would be easier to come up with a quick general list of band numbers and breeders of those band numbers. Great information you posted. Let me try to contruct a list in no particular order Brian.
"778/991" - Norm Reed
PRC 514 '53 - William Pensom
TRC #272 1968 - Hugo Blaas ?
Thor NBRC 466-88 - Breeder?
"Dummy" BCR 7998-78 - Breeder?
IRA 3164-79 - Breeder?
Excuse my ignorance Brian, which is the reason why I posted this subject. Can you name the breeders or who developed the line for each and perhaps rank them please. Thanks!
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AD3 Online Loft @ http://ad3rollers.no-ip.com
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
249 posts
Sep 20, 2004
10:23 PM
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AD, I believe Hugo bred 272. Dennis Early bred Thor who is a grandson of Dummy bred by Joe Kiser. Chan Grover bred 3164. Scott can verify or correct me on these as he would know this line much better than I.
Brian.
P.S. of course you can't forget about old "Rusty" which I believe Richard Espinoza bred. The most talked about bird that started the Jaconette strain, or so the story goes..lol.
Last Edited by MCCORMICKLOFTS on Sep 21, 2004 9:07 AM
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AD3
37 posts
Sep 21, 2004
6:40 PM
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Thanks Brian.
So the list goes on and looks like this:
Band/Bird - Breeder
"778/991" - Norm Reed
PRC 514 '53 - William Pensom
TRC #272 1968 - Hugo Blaas
Thor NBRC 466-88 - Dennis Early
"Dummy" BCR 7998-78 - Joe Kiser
IRA 3164-79 - Chan Grover
Jaconette's "Rusty" - Richard Espinoza
The list is looking good Brian. Thanks for the info. Now, the ranking. Rank by poplarity or the bird who has penetrated most lofts ?? Any others to add?
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AD3 Online Loft @ http://ad3rollers.no-ip.com
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
252 posts
Sep 21, 2004
7:48 PM
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AD, I'd like to see us hold off on a "ranking" until we get some more visitors offer their perspective of potential "popular" or "legendary" birds that they might know of or take a liking too. I know there are a lot of guys on here who have been in the game for many, many decades and will hopefully have some others to add to your list as well.
Brian.
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Mother lode lofts
186 posts
Sep 21, 2004
9:42 PM
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The Dummy cock was bred by Dan or Doug Oulette I believe, I would knock Thor out of there as that is just a leg off of Joe Borges Slate cock (121), I think that 313 is the key bird and plays a much larger role than any of these and is whats behind these birds and many others in other lofts. 313 was down from 272. going further back behind there is also the "clay" hen, "telestar" just to name a few, all going back to 514 bred different ways and creating many branches of the tree and many many different families bred out of these lines.
Scott
Last Edited by Mother lode lofts on Sep 21, 2004 9:49 PM
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K.Naylor
27 posts
Sep 22, 2004
12:40 PM
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Scott, Dummy was bred by Kiser. The Oulette's bred 285.
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Mother lode lofts
189 posts
Sep 22, 2004
4:44 PM
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I'm sure your right Keven but nor are they what would be considered "famous" birds, there's only a handfull that even knows what those birds are. As for whats behind "more" lofts around the country it would be hard to argue that it isnt the Jacounetts (sp), these birds are easy to mangage and are great for beginners and are very popular due to it.
Scott
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Steve S.
4 posts
Sep 22, 2004
8:14 PM
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AD3,
I agree that 514-53 had its place in history I was a young guy when it came around but to say it is more important than others is like saying we are more important than Adam and Eve.
We have to go back to the first 8 original imports that Fa. Schlattmann had sent over from Birmingham region of England in 1932.
Then we go to the birds in 1935 J.Leroy Smith had sent over.
From there were the shipments of Riches, Teesdale,and Al Walker of which Pensom stated Al Walker of Detroit Michigan got the best 2 breeding pair he ever raised.
463/1613 and 40/161.
This goes to say there were alot that made history.
Some would be the parents of the World Cup winning kits we have had so far and we haven't heard or know their #'s.
I think it would be doing injustice to the origins of the Birmingham Roller to say there are 5 or 10 top birds in history.
It took all of them to create what we enjoy today.
Just my take on the post.
Later
Steve
Last Edited by Steve S. on Sep 22, 2004 8:15 PM
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Arrowslinger
2 posts
Dec 12, 2004
4:42 AM
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"The Almond Cock" Dark Tortishell NPA-958-70 Loyd Bagwell bred owned by Don Simpson and Frank Reece of Anderson S.C.
Red Check Cock "5011" RA5011-73 son of 958-70 bred by Don Simpson
Black Self Cock "8907" PRC-8907-78 Bred by ? Owned by John Castro
Black Cock PRC-3937-73 Bred by Paul Vaughn
In my ten years of roller breeding good birds bred from Texas, Ohio, Kentucky, South Carolina, Georgia and many other states carry these three cocks on their pedigrees.
Last Edited by Arrowslinger on Dec 12, 2004 4:46 AM
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RolyPoly
18 posts
Dec 12, 2004
7:12 AM
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Interesting subject as we see where two of our birds RolyPoly (Jaconette) and UpsyDaisy (Oulette) came from. Thanks for all the info which is educating us in this fascinating hobby. Phil and Debbie
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Mongrel lofts
30 posts
Dec 12, 2004
1:53 PM
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Hey guys,
Just to clear things up on the Big Dummy stuff,, IRA-#14601 red check self was the original Big Dummy cock.. He was Bred by Joe Kiser, and aquired by Dan Ouellette I know for sure..I got Big Dummy in a trade from Dennis Chavez, after he had just bought it from Dan O.No doubt about any of this, Danny was living at my place, at this time.. Big Dummy was off of #7998 x the red check sister hen, #370... Some get confussed and call Dummies dad big dummy, those who know the birds, call 7998, Dummies Dad.. Anyway, thats my story.. KGB
PS. In my opinion, this blood is second to none.. Seen a lot of good ones down from the Big Dummy stuff over the years.. It very well could be his grand father is the key bird,, #313..
PPS. at one time, several cocks were lined up of this family, and bragged, none ever rolled.. Now there is a bragging point for ya.. LOL I wonder why they call this line, Big Dummy?
Last Edited by Mongrel lofts on Dec 12, 2004 6:26 PM
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wgg
11 posts
Nov 10, 2007
7:19 PM
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Just curious if anyone had a little more detailed information on 272? I hear a lot about him and how he added some spark to a lot of families. This was an interesting thread from a while back. A lot of interesting history. Thanks,
Grant
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birdman
418 posts
Nov 10, 2007
10:39 PM
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Was 272 a droopy wing bird?
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birdman
420 posts
Nov 10, 2007
10:54 PM
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Yeah, he looks like a shady character in that mug shot...lol
Russ
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W@yne
755 posts
Nov 10, 2007
11:29 PM
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The most famous bird that i know is George Masons stock cock 48 1989
This bird is the foundation to many people that fly mason birds in the UK and across the globe it runs all the way through Georges pedigrees.
I have held 48 and sure is a fine example of a true Birmingham Roller pigeon that bred exceptional offspring.
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
=====================================
Last Edited by on Nov 10, 2007 11:31 PM
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3757
231 posts
Nov 11, 2007
4:28 AM
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Just for historical clarification for the newcomers who may not know the history of TRC-68-272 that has been mentioned on the above list - The potency and breeding potential of TRC-68-272 was discovered from the owner of the bird and that was Herb Sparkes way before the bird was on loan. Herb bred champions from this bird and discovered that he produced some real high velocity spinners. Others bred the bird while the bird was on loan due to Herb relocating but the bird was his. 272 had produced champions for Herb on almost ever hen.
As Brian stated the list of historic pigeons could go on and on. My favorites are NBRC-63-3757 (WHP / Bruce Cooper), PRC-57-7001(WHP), COOP-74-4013 (Bruce Cooper) and HCS-93-9393.
Last Edited by on Nov 11, 2007 5:44 AM
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Steve_uk
270 posts
Nov 11, 2007
12:40 PM
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AERC 2002 2217 what a bird Blue checker bald grandson out of the great 1989 48 cock of George Mason this bird as them all in its ped including 1988 1215 "The Best"
Steve0!!!!
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Built4Speed
212 posts
May 20, 2008
11:08 AM
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The old school birds sure did make a name for themselves even today, but what new numbers are out there in the past 10 years or so that have had a impact on everyones loft today.
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Dale
SGVS
http://builtforspeedrollerlofts.bravehost.com/
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colinb
80 posts
May 20, 2008
12:28 PM
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in the uk john wonless the 45 cock its bread at least 3 national rosebowl winers i think its 15 and still filing its eggs
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Spinncity
5 posts
May 20, 2008
12:45 PM
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Colin,
The 45 cock is also the foundation of my birds.
I have 7 direct children of 45.
This strain of birds are developing into a major
force in South Africa.
If I knew how I would have posted a photo of him.
Maybe you can do it for us.
Johnny Conradie
RSA
Last Edited by on May 20, 2008 12:47 PM
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Built4Speed
217 posts
May 20, 2008
1:07 PM
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If you guys have a picture of the 45 cock please post so we can see him and also the background to him.
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Dale
SGVS
http://builtforspeedrollerlofts.bravehost.com/
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j .wanless
142 posts
May 20, 2008
2:07 PM
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hi dale i dont know how to post photos im new to pc. i.ll get someone to do it for me. the 45/cock is a black badge off father to daughter mating born 94/ im struggling to get full eggs this year i/ve only got 3 this year i normally get around 20 y/b a year out of him. he/s a one off bird where any thing i put to him he breads good rollers. a once in a life time bird unfotunatly on his last stages of life.
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Velo99
1783 posts
May 20, 2008
3:40 PM
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Dave Sabatura`s Eagle.
Billings` Big Dummy.
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V99
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\__\_/-|_| \__\____
/()_)__20___()_)\__\
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Joe Dan
80 posts
May 20, 2008
4:50 PM
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778
991
516
343
17599
23
These are the primary birds behind most of the Reed and Higgins birds in the lofts of many today. These are the birds behind Johnny Smiths birds and so so many others! This family of birds... in the hands of many flyers... has competed as strong over the past 10 years as any other family of birds.
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Joe Dan Parson
Full Turn Lofts
North Texas
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George R.
709 posts
May 20, 2008
4:53 PM
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Joe Dan
That Family is the winningest Family in the last ten years in Major fly's and Local fly's .
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Ty Coleman
298 posts
May 20, 2008
5:02 PM
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007 or the Rambo bird bred by Turner
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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Joe Dan
83 posts
May 20, 2008
5:02 PM
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Dale,
3259
4
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Joe Dan Parson
Full Turn Lofts
North Texas
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Joe Dan
84 posts
May 20, 2008
5:02 PM
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Dale,
3259
4
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Joe Dan Parson
Full Turn Lofts
North Texas
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elopez
1389 posts
May 20, 2008
5:30 PM
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I agree with Joe Dan. I have alot of that blood for the same reason.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
http://lopezloft22.bravehost.com/
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DeepSpinLofts
782 posts
May 20, 2008
6:21 PM
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LaRon... I have a 2004 cock with a black band that says TRC on it.
QUESTION: What do the alphanumeric symbols T-R-C stand for?
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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elopez
1392 posts
May 21, 2008
12:47 AM
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Love the offspring off of 3259 and 4 - 0016, 0003, 100 and a few others...
Just got a son from 0003 from Abel. It's a loaner, so hope to get some good use out of him.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
http://lopezloft22.bravehost.com/
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Joe Dan
86 posts
May 21, 2008
4:00 PM
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Yes Efrin,
They are my favorite family too. I finially stopped breeding from anything else I had.
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Joe Dan Parson
Full Turn Lofts
North Texas
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elopez
1398 posts
May 21, 2008
4:07 PM
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Good Luck with the Joe. What other family where you working with?
Did you get the birds from Jerry H? What are some of the birds you have off of?
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
http://lopezloft22.bravehost.com/
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Joe Dan
87 posts
May 21, 2008
4:44 PM
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Efrin,
I am gonna hit your personal addy!
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rollingline33
10 posts
Jul 25, 2008
11:49 PM
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i know its a crayzzz question but how much would one of the bird mentiond be worth in money how much would some one pay or sale such a bird for the bird mentiond on this post? cuz i need to buy some of these birds if i cud get my hands on them!! i have a few thousand that i want to spend on some good birds!!lol im riding a bike to work cuz of the gas and cuz im saveing to buy some of these rollers!! lol i wish.. i know ther priceless and there nt for sale!! i like all the old talks .not the new talks about colors!! grrrrr!!
Last Edited by on Jul 25, 2008 11:53 PM
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Santandercol
2803 posts
Jul 25, 2008
11:54 PM
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Be careful what you say about how much you want to spend or you may be taken for a ride by some unscrupulous feather merchant.Birds like what these guys were talking about were priceless.
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Kel.
Rum-30 Lofts
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elopez
1606 posts
Jul 26, 2008
5:35 AM
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0016 was sold for $2500
0003 was sold for $1000
Full brothers
He is dead now. Died a couple of weeks ago.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
http://lopezloft22.bravehost.com/
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gotspin7
1554 posts
Jul 26, 2008
8:11 AM
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Great list Joe and Efren, let me add a few of my favorites to that what about 698,l215,1814,1804,672,45,258,1042 and 903
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Sal Ortiz
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tears of thunder
9 posts
Jul 26, 2008
12:50 PM
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hey Efren, would you happen to know how many guys owned 0016?
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elopez
1609 posts
Jul 26, 2008
5:17 PM
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It went from Jerry Higgins to Johnny Smith to Antonio Mitchelle and lastly to Abel Ibarra.
Here the last picture of 0016:
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
http://lopezloft22.bravehost.com/
Last Edited by on Jul 26, 2008 5:18 PM
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CSRA
1589 posts
Jul 27, 2008
10:52 AM
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Great job Sal u bad lol
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