Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1984 posts
Aug 21, 2010
5:56 PM
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Hey all, I thought I would provide an update on my breeding program and the progress. Most will remember that this is the fifth generation of my birds and their start from one Ruby cock and two Ruby hens. After I received my birds from Tony in 06, I bred and flew out their young. I liked what I was seeing well enough to order another pair in 07; I specified the parents and Tony bred young for me… I then culled everything in the loft with the exception of the original cock and hen that produced the best in the air, my foundation. The new pair was of the same parentage as the foundation from which I used the hen, only.
I started line breeding from the original cock and two hens, I used the new cock for a foster and a backup if something was to happen to my foundation cock, I later sent him to my brother who is breeding from him successfully. I use a modified line breeding program that I feel has condensed the already refined birds I received from Tony. For the last four generations I have bred nothing but the best of my hens back to their fathers. Of course, I also bred the best cocks to their mothers. By best, I mean, I picked them from the air for performance qualities and in the loft for temperament I have bred from four pair each year while using their progeny as fosters. I have allowed a few side experiments within this foster program but kept to my main line for the breeders.
This brings us to this years breeding effort. I used my foundation as fosters and went solely with four pair of my best birds. Two father daughter pairings and two mother son. From these eight birds, I bred thirty one young birds. I also bred a few Jacconettes from Bill Roy’s birds, which I am flying and managing exactly as I do with the Ruby’s.
Now the results, my cocks are kitting very well, (I am flying twenty-four, mixed Ruby’s and Jacconette’s) they are from high “X” to “H” in wing position. Their speed is smooth and fast, with some looking like a crochet ball with almost no wings showing, just a blur. Their depth is in the 10 to 35 foot range with the older birds developing in their second year. They are easy to handle in the loft and kit box. I am getting good breaks with better performance in concert as they age as a team.
My hens are much the same but with these differences. They are not as deep but are faster and tighter in the spin. They do not kit as tight as the cocks but I have not flown them as much due to work, weather, time… My fault, not theirs but there are only so many hours in a day and so much energy to go around. The cock’s put on a good show and I find myself opening their door more then I do the hens, poor management!
My summation would be one of intent. I know many will disagree with what I am going to say. I am just reporting my experiences without encouraging anyone to follow. The fact that my inbred/line bred birds are doing as well as I hoped is due largely to the stock I started with. Tony’s birds were condensed and refined from my start. I have tightened the gene pool and intend to continue exactly the same path that has led me to this point. Intelligent men with more experience have cautioned me against holding the line this tight. As a preventive, I am caring a very closely related line to use as an in cross if needed. I also am considering a possible experimental out crossing with the best of the Jacconette’s, who have shown great potential.
Take care my friends
Thom
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Sammy W
30 posts
Aug 21, 2010
7:28 PM
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Best of luck my friend.
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fhtfire
2644 posts
Aug 21, 2010
7:37 PM
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Thom...I would do a few trial pairs with the Jacs....you never know unless you try and you will know within one year of the potential. Just when you think you cant improve on a strain....you find that you can.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1985 posts
Aug 22, 2010
3:48 AM
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Hey Sammy, Thank you, I wish the same for you! :)
Paul, The Ruby's are faster, the Jacconette's smoother or they appear to be. I very well just might try a few test pairs next breeding season. I like where the Ruby's are going but I will always be searchng for improvement.
Joe, I kept a Ruby cock in with my pheasant hens and they laid a dozen eggs a week. I took him out and placed a rooster in, no eggs so far!
Take care my friends
Thom
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Raul Carreiro
99 posts
Aug 22, 2010
9:17 AM
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Hi Thom, Its good to hear of your progress with your birds. Your breeding program is well thought out and I wish you much success with them in the future!
Regards,
Raul.
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1986 posts
Aug 22, 2010
11:40 AM
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Hey Raul, I hope you enjoy your Rubys as much as I have mine.
Take care my friend
Thom
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bigbull
61 posts
Aug 26, 2010
5:12 PM
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Oldfart your breeding program sounds great.I'm breeding the same way with my 06 & 07 rubys. bigbull flying solo in south los angeles.brick red lofts .
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1996 posts
Aug 26, 2010
5:18 PM
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Bigbull, If you would like to talk about line/inbreeding a little deeper, feel free to email me at flycontroline@yahoo.com
Take care
Thom
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TimP
217 posts
Aug 31, 2010
4:03 PM
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Hey Paul, if Thom wants to try an out you should send him one of your Flashovers.
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pop
6 posts
Aug 31, 2010
7:17 PM
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i normally just read, but i now have something to add. i've had these birds off and on for 60 years or so and have had stock from several of the best breeders, but the rubys i got from Tony two years ago have really paid off. i don't show or compete, and am satisfied to sit in a lawn chair and just always be amazed. these ruby rollers have taken my enjoyment to a new level. their performances are consistent, and deep, and now i know, after all these years just what a roller should be.........
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
2015 posts
Sep 01, 2010
3:28 AM
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Hey Pop, I keep birds for the same reasons as you and you are right, the Ruby's coming out of the box deliver on promise. They are a tightly bred family so it is hard to improve on them but they can be even better. Enjoy your birds!
Take care my friend
Thom
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
4203 posts
Sep 01, 2010
6:09 AM
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Hey Joe, everyone has their reasons for trying something new...the challenge of adding something new is that it can take years to understand the new combination of genes and the twists and turns that result before you really have a handle on it. The sad part is is that the cross may not bring anything beneficial to the table.
For Paul, he has indicated before that he wanted more chest muscle on his Rubys so that when they landed, they did not have the droopy wings after they worked real hard. Thing is, Sal Estrada and I have always viewed this characteristic as birds that left nothing in reserve. I think that is why these birds are known for rolling so fast is that they spare nothing for a little "bling" in their step after landing.
Bottom line is that both Sal and I are of the view that there is plenty of chest muscle and heart in the birds to roll fast, Paul works toward a vision he sees and he feels his methods are working for him (which was to cross quality family's and make his own mark sans the "Ruby" and "Mort" names and welcome the Flashover strain).
I believe it is appropriate to HT those who have contributed toward our efforts as all of us have stood on the shoulders of those who went before us.
I myself would not try bringing in a different family at this point (almost 20 years into this Ruby strain) unless it was to "play". I have bred a couple of Ruby's to Bill Roy Jaconettes and up to now am still waiting for that "breakout" bird.
We are all happy to recommend what we have experienced and has worked for us to any who will listen. Anyway, I don't think Paul meant any harm by his suggestion. No?
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FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria
The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.” – Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
4205 posts
Sep 01, 2010
6:37 AM
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Hey Joe ;-)
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FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria
The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.” – Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
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TimP
219 posts
Sep 01, 2010
8:20 AM
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Hey Joe, I said "if Thom wants to try an out". Paul mentioned it and I thought the Flashover already has a gene pool to tie back to Thom's birds, plus Paul has proven the Flashover strain. In my opinion it would save Thom from having to find that breakout bird that Tony mentioned. JMO
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
2017 posts
Sep 01, 2010
11:14 AM
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Hey Guys, No fighting! You both are right! :) I am enjoying my Ruby's but I also have considered an out cross with one of my Mr. Bill Roy's Jacconettes. The Ruby's have the velocity, style, kitting and depth. What might be improved on is smoothness and the Jacconettes "seem" to have that. They are a little longer cast and I'm not convinced it is not just an illusion but as an experiment, NOT TO REPLACE MY MAIN RUBY LINE, why not? I have and never will be shy about purging any bird that does not have what I want. So stop the bickering, my friends and I'll let you know next year how they are doing! :)
Paul, I have enough eggs in my basket but I would be proud to have a few of your birds in my loft. I'm not asking for any birds just saying, I know you and I have all the confidence in your Flashover Strain! I also know what a flashover is. :) I understand they are named appropriately!
Take care my friends
Thom
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