STARFIRE
76 posts
Nov 15, 2004
4:57 PM
|
K.N;
Post this guys e.mail address that has the Crested birds.I would like to talk to him about how he bred them.By saying that good birds sell for a lot more where you come from only leads me to believe that there arn't many good ones down there.Thats all I read on the internet .Where can I buy Good birds.They say they pay big money for some and they turn out to be culls.Everybody sell birds.If they don't they are giving away thier culls.==Stan Arnold=
|
Steve S.
15 posts
Nov 15, 2004
5:29 PM
|
Stan,
I wrote you a post on Nov. 12 and you stated to me you never had enough pairs to get 15 or 20 youngsters at once.
Now you say you got 45 pairs.
I round and thats 90 youngsters.
Man Stan which is it?
I wasn't taking sides on anyones part as to your posts or comments but now I'm begining to wonder.
Also I hate to bust your bubble but I have seen crested rollers as far back as 1959 and yes they could roll but their makeup was in question on my part.
Stan come on be legit with all of us on here.
Money is not the issue in the true roller hobby.
People raise them for the fun and sport of it.
Guess I said enough.
Later
Steve
|
Mother lode lofts
296 posts
Nov 15, 2004
7:14 PM
|
Question, If youngbirds are rolling well within 5-6 month's does that mean that they are good birds or do they just have the potential to be good birds ? Personally I don't believe anything that I read or that I'm told when it come's to weather a bird or birds are good or not. the only time that I take it at face value is when either I see them myself or somebody that I trust relays the info to me, and that goes also for my birds and for those that don't know me or my birds and that is why I just don't say anything. A good bird is "flawless" "flawless "FLAWLESS in the roll from start to finish (flawless being the key word here) with exceptional speed and kits like glue,nor does it bump on a regular basis going in or going out,and good birds have some age on them which proove's that they held up and have staying power. Most people overlook "slight" flaws and basicly drool all over themself over a bird that stretches on depth even though the roll is flawed. Yea Stan I'm sure that you are right about there being no good one's down here as we all know that all the good one's are up there in your backyard,we know that because you told us so, we don't expect you to proove it though because you also told us that they are all crooked and cheats up there. Stan by you breeding out of 45 pairs tells me a whole lot and I'll say no more about it. On a whole if I believed even half of what I read or heard I might as well kill everything on the property, but what I've come to learn is far to many people don't know what truelly good birds are, and far to many are just plain full of shit. One thing that I'm certain of is that truely good birds don't fall off of tree's in numbers nor are 5-6 month old super stars of value unless they are still super stars in the kitbox well into the following year.
Last Edited by Mother lode lofts on Nov 16, 2004 6:40 AM
|
viper
22 posts
Nov 15, 2004
7:46 PM
|
I was given a pair of birds 2 years ago hen was banded 2000 a dun a1999 black cock out of 12 babys 7 had this little retard growth of feathers on there little heads I know what it is now.They were runtish sickly looking the ones that made it to fly which was 3.One was a lawn dart the other 2 died from a neck problem they got to long the cock and hen also had the same long neck fault.What would I change the first one should have gotten aneck problem.
|
fhtfire
69 posts
Nov 15, 2004
9:11 PM
|
Stan,
I know that you stated that if a guy gives his birds away...then they are culls. Well, I have to disagree with you respectfully. I have some birds from Chuck Roe and Scott Campbell....they were free. I tell you this...they were not culls either. Any true roller fancier would not give culls away or even sell them unless they are sold to be stuffed with pears and baked at 350..because they would not want to make a bad name for thereselves. Also, it is very cool when you know a roller fancier is using your stock and is doing well. The true roller guys also care a lot about this hobby and love the Birmingham roller and would never want to give a cull to someone and make them think that this hobby sucks and the Birmingham rollers are trash.
Hell, myself and another fancier Bill Crider just gave birds to a guy that is on this site for FREE! and guess what...they were not culls. I gave him a proven pair of my breeders and young birds out of very good stock. Why.....because the guy is a roller fancier like me and had a stroke of bad luck with his birds...and I wanted to pay it forward...meaning...a lot of people have stepped up for me....I just wanted to step up for someone else. I gave him birds out of my best pairs and gave him a nice pair of breeders. I gave him young birds that I was real excited about because the older siblings are doing very good...But...I did not want to give him garbage...because guess what...if they turn out pretty good for the guy...I want him to say that those were Paul Fullerton Birds....with Scott C. and Chuck Roe blood. I am sure Bill feels the same way...He has Urbon blood in the birds he gave away. This is by no means tooting my horn......I am just trying to prove a point.
Stan...I am new to rollers compared to you...but I have learned that you either put it up or shut it up. Just enter the cup and see what happens....or invite some guys like Scott C...who is a judge to come up and judge your birds...he is a very fair guy. I am sure someone could arrange to have your birds judged by a fair and respected judge not from your area and if they are as good as you say...well then you have proved it.... the respect will be earned. Hell, I will chip in some doe to get a judge up there!
Thats it
rock and ROLL
Paul
|
rotti
25 posts
Nov 16, 2004
2:00 AM
|
Stan, You ask why no one else puts up a website? And everyone here asks why you don't put up your birds? ANyone can put up a website. And claim anything they want. They can even claim the pictures are real. A website is easily done. Putting up a winning kit of rollers is not easy. And damn sure isn't easily faked. If you are cheated everytime you enter a fly then move. Or better send me a kit of young birds. I'll follow your training guidelines and enter them in the WC. Then everyone can see just what your birds can do. The excuse of being cheated is just that. An excuse. It just means you felt cheated. It doesn't mean you actually were. I am new to the sport and have found the others in this sport very friendly and helpful. So I don't believe anyone would want to cheat you. If you lost a fly and felt you should have won so be it. Get over it. Quit trying to ruin the roller experience for the rest of us. Don
|
K.Naylor
58 posts
Nov 16, 2004
8:39 AM
|
Stan, I do not know if the guy has a email. Also ask Scott how many birds he has ever sold in his life. Then ask him how many of his birds are in other people's stock loft. He does not sell birds and he does give them to friends that deserve them and they are not culls. Stan the bottom line is that you were bragging about how good your crested birds were and all we did was ask you to prove it. Then you were stating how the guys in your area cheated you. You never said exactly how they cheated you.
|
STARFIRE
77 posts
Nov 16, 2004
11:36 AM
|
Hey K.N;
If Scott and Kenny offered me their birds for nothing I wouldn't take them.I DON'T WANT ANYBODYS BIRDS.Not even the W.C. winners.I want to keep my family pure.I haven't seen a bird yet that I would put in my loft.And if I went to California or anywhere else ,I still would't see anything I would want to put in my loft.I still havent got that guys name in Cali.that has these crested birds .Why haven't you given it to me?Is it a secret?Doesn't he own a computer?C'mon give it up.I'd like to talk to him and get some pics of his birds. =Stan Arnold=
|
STARFIRE
78 posts
Nov 16, 2004
12:35 PM
|
Hey Scott:
Do you know how to read? Tell me where I said I bred 45 pair of crested birds.I breed 45 pair including about10 pair of Crests.Besides I dont believe any thing you guys say. Why should I.You don't beleive anything I say.Like you say I'm not there looking at your birds ,so why should I believe you have good birds.You see I can play this game too.You guys are flying a bunch of crap down there,and you Think they're good.You probably don't know what a good spinner looks like.You see I can talk like you guys.I can twist every thing around and be negative about everything.Does it sound good?It Just goes to prove that pigeon guys everywhere just love to run the other guy down.I thought when I put that website up, I could show the fruits of 25 years of breeding.I didn't breed them for a lifetime to be a bunch of crap.Would you?I think Its time to shut down this GET STAN line of bull.It's been Fun though.Lets see if you can find another scapegoat to run down.=Stan Arnold= If you can develop a new breed like me ,let me know ,I'd like to see them.
|
K.Naylor
59 posts
Nov 16, 2004
12:44 PM
|
Stan, this just goes to how you dance around the questions that are put infront of you. I do not know the guy in Vallejos name or if he has an email. I will find out and get you the info. No one said that you would want kenny or scotts birds. answer this "HOW DID THE GUYS IN YOUR AREA CHEAT YOU?" Can you answer this one question??
|
MCCORMICKLOFTS
325 posts
Nov 16, 2004
12:55 PM
|
Stan, let me tune you into a bright revelation. Just because you pop out then cultivate a family of crested rollers, that does not make them a new breed!!!. It just makes them a crested version of what you started with. If you say your birds are Pensom, then they are still Pensom, not some new breed. In all other breeds, there are plainhead and crested versions of the same breed. It takes at mininum, the integration of genes from three different breed sources to create a new breed. Dude, I have friends who get crests in their Wests all the time. Does that make them a new breed. No. It makes them a crested West. The gene for crest (feather reversal in specific location) is a recessive gene and nothing more. Man I was hoping to stay out of this witch hunt, but gotta call ya on this one Stan.
Brian.
|
STARFIRE
80 posts
Nov 16, 2004
1:27 PM
|
Hey K.N;
Do you think you would believe me if I told you?Is it in the W.C. rules to fly,on a Monday with nobody there but the judge and the flyer,when the fly was suppossed to be on Fri. Sat>Sun?Then to put it in as being flown on Sun.Thats what they did.I did the same thing as them in the following year,and I said I would fly on the Mon.with only me and the judge .They said I couldn't do that .I said you did it last year.The judge was staying with me ,the last time.So they said ok,But they still wanted the fly to be put in as being on the Sun.And it was.They said that was allowable,The first time,but I protested,to
no avail.
Thats not in the rules.You have to have more than the judge and the flyer on a fly.My Score was highest in the world at that time,and I would have qualified for the W.C.Finals.
But I was beat on the Monday.Of Course.=Stan Arnold=
Last Edited by STARFIRE on Nov 16, 2004 1:30 PM
|
K.Naylor
60 posts
Nov 16, 2004
1:37 PM
|
Stan, if this is how they did it then it should have been looked into. The fact that you had the highest score in the world at the time really doesn't matter because you were flying in your qualifier. Who did you protest to?
|
Mother lode lofts
297 posts
Nov 16, 2004
3:40 PM
|
Stan only a small portion of that post was directed towards you and the rest of it was how generally I see things on a whole. Stan I enjoy looking at your site and I think that you have done a fine job with it, and I am also truelly happy for you and the enjoyment that you get out of the crested birds, bottom line is that these birds are all personal to everyone of us and that is all that really matters.
|
MCCORMICKLOFTS
326 posts
Nov 16, 2004
4:19 PM
|
Scott, you weren't kidding were you, you really did get laid last night..lol. This euphoric journalism is so becoming of you!
Brian.
|
STARFIRE
81 posts
Nov 16, 2004
5:45 PM
|
Hey Mc;
Why do you say these crested birds are not a new breed created by me.Have you seen the pensom book? How many crested birds are in there.How long has pensom been dead.Did pensom pair these birds of mine to get these crests on them?When you get anybodys birds, and breed them for a few years ,they are not the guys birds you got them off of.The only way you could say that is if he came over and paired them up for you himself.They're your family,good or bad.No one breeds birds the same way.Everybody has a different method.There may be a few of these crests popping up now and again,in different lofts but they may be crappy birds or they may roll down,or the guy may think like alot of guys.Oowh a crest .I'll kill it.I'm The only guy who had the Audacity to breed FOR the crest.I've developed them into a good family of stable spinners.You believe what you want.It's a free country and everyone has the right to voice there opinion.And you right,there are crested and plain headed birds in different breeds.In the birmingham roller ther are Plain headed birds (like all you guys got)and crested birds( like I got).Have any of you guys got any like I got?LOL =Stan Arnold=
Last Edited by STARFIRE on Nov 16, 2004 5:54 PM
|
STARFIRE
82 posts
Nov 16, 2004
6:26 PM
|
Hey K.N;
You are still doing it.Trivializing my score at this time.I was highest in the world at that time and had I got into the finals I had a good shot at the W.C title.I had a score of 230.4 I.5 Q-1.6 D for a 15 minute fly.I had 1 outbird(so they said).Rod Fomby won it that year with 288 points.You say it doesn't matter what the score was.It sure as hell mattered to me at the time.And it would have to you too,if it would have happened to you.Its very irresponsible of you to talk this way,Considering what position you hold in the The W.C executive.What good is complaining if thats the attitude,you take.A friend of mine called Steve Clayton about this some time ago I think and there was some talk of trying to split the flyers into 2 groups (Two clubs) so that we wouldn't have to deal with these guys.
I don't think there are enough flyers to do that now,as two of the guys have passed away.==Stan Arnold==
|
STARFIRE
83 posts
Nov 16, 2004
6:46 PM
|
Hey fhtfire;
Dont be talking about the good birds you got,and nameing big names, Your bragging.Don't you know you can't say things like "good birds" "new breed" "30-40 ft." "he's got good birds"And heaven forbid you mention "Scores" and "videos" and the biggest one "CHEATING"Not on this site anyway.I'm sorry to say I can't believe anything you say.It might be construed as the truth.LOL=Stan Arnold=
Last Edited by STARFIRE on Nov 16, 2004 6:47 PM
|
STARFIRE
84 posts
Nov 16, 2004
7:02 PM
|
Hey Scott;
Thanks for that.I cant believe it.You saying things like that?Amazing.This might turn into a decent friendly site after all.
=LOL= Stan Arnold=
|
Mother lode lofts
298 posts
Nov 16, 2004
7:17 PM
|
Stan I think that we all did our fair share at banging heads here. Time for us all to shake hands and move on to something more productive such as why are all of us RollerHeads such handsome Bastards except for Keven? LOL LOL
|
Birdman
24 posts
Nov 16, 2004
7:56 PM
|
Stan, hopefully you will get things organized up in your area so we can all see some scores from you next year. After reading all the posts, you have convinced me that you really do have thick skin or you would'nt be coming back for more. I will say though, that some of what you say seems contradictory due to the fact that you are claiming your crest are a new breed when actually I think you meant that they are a strain. No big deal, most of us know the difference. Bottom line is that you pay the feed bill and are entitled to do whatever you like with the birds just as the rest of us. In the end it's the performance that talks the loudest. Good luck!
Russ
|
K.Naylor
61 posts
Nov 17, 2004
7:50 AM
|
Stan, what did I say that was wrong. I simply said that what you score in the qualifier has nothing to do with the finals. All the flyers start over int the finals and their qualifier score has nothing to do with it. Plus you have a different judge for the finals. Look in the past, how many people that had the highest score in the qualifiers ended up winning the finals?. I did ask who you protested to at the time? You answered by saying that a friend called Steve a short time ago. How many years ago did this happen? I also believe that you have a new RD now.
Last Edited by K.Naylor on Nov 17, 2004 9:08 AM
|
MCCORMICKLOFTS
327 posts
Nov 17, 2004
10:53 AM
|
Might as well give up Kev, its either his way or the highway.
|
STARFIRE
85 posts
Nov 17, 2004
12:23 PM
|
K.N:
You don't make any sense.How can you get in the finals if the qualifying score dosen't mean anything.Thats what gets you to the finals from your area.I would have been in the finals that year,with that score if I hadn't been screwed over.That was 8 years ago.The W.C.was won with 265 pts this year.Do you realize if I had that score in this fly this year I woud have been in second place? Doesnt matter B.S.
=Stan Arnold =You are right though,It doesnt matter NOW.Thats water under the bridge.=Stan Arnold=
|
K.Naylor
62 posts
Nov 18, 2004
7:06 AM
|
Stan, you have no idea how the w/c is ran. Just because the qualifier judge gave you that score does not mean that the finals judge would give you the same score or that your birds would perform the same in the finals fly. Once everyone qualifies they start out at 0 in the finals. You have to fly again and then the finals judge gives you a score on that fly, therefore what you scored in the qualifier has nothing to do with the finals score. also you are right it happened so long ago why are you still saying that the guys would cheat you, and that the w/c is croocked?
|
STARFIRE
86 posts
Nov 18, 2004
6:00 PM
|
K.N;
I know how the W.C. works.I know you start from O.But you cant start at all if you don't Qualify for the finals.Thats what im talking about.They stopped me from getting to the
finals.You don't understand the situation down here.There is only one club that flys on a regular basis.There are no others,only the C.R.C.Which is a show club.They have a few competitions but not on a regular basis.The T.F.R.C. is only interested in flying birds from their members.There are only a handful of guys that fly in that club.They have had 3 members in the last 2 years pass away.They have always entered ghost kits to meet the flyer requirements.
One guy on this list said to move.I'd have to move to B.C.
to join another club.I can tell you horror stories about the flys I've been on,but there is no sense,you wouldn't believe me. 2 other guys and myself, Started that TFRC club in about 1970.It used to be a good club until they imported
those Barrat & Brown Birds and then every body seemed to lose thier minds.All they did was fight about who was to get these birds.I was the only one that passed on those birds.I was secretary at the time and I quit the club because of all the fighting,in about 1978-9.=Stan Arnold=
Last Edited by STARFIRE on Nov 18, 2004 6:04 PM
|
K.Naylor
66 posts
Nov 19, 2004
7:51 AM
|
Stan, I really do not know what else to say. All i know is that the W/C is NOT associated with any club in the world. It is an organization all by its self. Your region has to get a judge and the judges score is final. The W/C is alot different now each region is closely monitored, no more ghost kits. If I were you I would fly and if anything fishy happened contact either me or Ron Duncan. If you choose not to fly that is yur choice. I do not think that it is right to bad mouth the W/C since you have not flown in it for some time.
|
STARFIRE
90 posts
Nov 21, 2004
1:00 PM
|
K.N;
IF I were to fly again,and something was fishy,and I let you know about it,how would the reaction be any different now than it would have been then.You don't beleive any thing I told you so far.You see thats what these crooks rely on.They know the reaction will be exactly what happened here.Sore loser -crybaby-he's lying.This couldn't happen.I said what happened to me in Canada.I never said anything about anything that goes on in the states.I'm not trying to badmouth the W.C.as a whole.That was not my intention.You guys blew it all out of proportion.I was not attacking the W.C.at all.Only a few bad apples here.
=Stan Arnold= Wheres that e.mail address for the guy with all those crested birds in Cali.?
Last Edited by STARFIRE on Nov 21, 2004 1:04 PM
|
K.Naylor
71 posts
Nov 22, 2004
10:47 AM
|
Stan, you have said tha tthe world fly is a bunch of BS and you even talked about scores from other areas. How could you Comment on a score on a fly that you did not see for yourself??? you have made up you mind that you will not fly again because you will be treated unfairly and that I would not do anything about it. If you would like to discuss this anyfuther contact me at my personal email. Knaylor35@yahoo.com.
|
C.J.
1 post
Nov 25, 2004
11:12 AM
|
O.k. here goes I have sat quietly by for the past several months listening to Stan shoot his mouth off. I thought it was a personal grudge between Mother lode and he so I sat quietly. Now it has gone too far. I am tired of his constant trashing of other breeders here in Ontario Canada. Mr. Stan I just happen to live in Ontario and as god would have it in a city about an hour from you. A little back ground about myself. I have been raising birds for the past thirty years and suspect that if I could look to past lives it has been much longer. I am a third generation bird man and have never sold a bird for $100. My heart is not in it for the money but for the love. I must admit I have given quite a few away to people mostly kids who seriously wanted to get into this hobby. If you enter my coop and something doesn’t seem right the birds don’t go anywhere. These birds have my name and number on the band so they can easily be traced back to me. I do not want some quick buck artist using my name to promote his birds. As I am sure that Pensom would be concerned with if he were still alive today. It seems everyone tries to justify their breeding methods by tracing their birds back to Pensom. I don’t care if someone offered me $1000 I wouldn’t sell. Mr. Stan says that everyone around here is a crook. Well Mr. Stan at this I must take exception. I am not a crook or what I call a feather merchant ( a feather merchant is a guy who raises or sells birds just for the money. The birds are kept in poor conditions and unsuspecting breeders names are used to promote the birds.) (These feather merchants or what I affectionately like to call them weasels can show up at your loft or on your answering machine at any time. They like to show up mostly when you are not home. Then birds go missing mysteriously.) I must say that quite a few guys that I know in this area would be insulted by your comments. As for the little crest on the back of the head being created by Mr. Stan I must say that it was not. He may be breeding for this throw back but it was not created by him. I had a hen and cock bird that when paired together would consistently throw young with this tuff. If you bred them to other birds it never surfaced in the young. It was just a gene that came when they were bred to one another. I must say that they were interesting to look at and they did roll but they didn’t stay in my loft. I am not breeding for defects or throw backs. It is a throw back from way, way back. It is like humans we all have something in the closet that we don’t know about. I do agree that if it roll then it is a roller but I think that we have to be careful what we are promoting as Birmingham rollers. I also wouldn’t be suprised that the bird that started it all was a Pensom or had Pensom attached to it. Pensom himself may even had one born into his loft but one of the great differences between Pensom and Stan are Pensom saw it as a default and got rid of the bird Stan sees it as a way to make money. He even goes as far to promote it as his breed. I must say I am not sure if Mr. Stan even knows this but there is a guy in a small town who bought a bunch of birds from Stan. He is promoting the birds as rare and using Stans name. They are small like a normal roller they just have this stupid tuff on the back of the head. The birds this guy bought weren’t anything special in the air. They didn’t kit well and didn’t roll very deep. This is also part of this guys fault because they weren’t conditioned well or trained I suspect. He also had about a hundred them. There were pens everywhere. I feel that if Stan’s birds didn’t do well it wasn’t the judges fault but rather a bad day or poor conditioning . I feel it is the easy way out to call the judges crookes. What would they have to gain from seeing you loose. Other than maybe you have pissed them off with your rude comments. I think Stan should apologize to all of his fellow Canadians for calling us all crooks. Especially when he does not know all of us. I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to all our American brothers for Stan’s rude behaviour. This is just my two cents. C.J.
Last Edited by C.J. on Nov 27, 2004 9:56 AM
|
JUrbon
34 posts
Nov 25, 2004
12:49 PM
|
C.J I dont think you could have thaught that out any better. I will tell you that I have not taken one dam thing that stan has said to heart nor do you owe me or anybody else an apology for his comments. This is an open forum so he is free to write anything he pleases, And he probably still will. Your post was very well written and I admire you for standing up for yourself and your fellow countrymen. I would be interested in hearing more from you though as I get the impression that you have a bit of knowledge that could be shared on this forum. We have alot of new fliers on this list as well as alot of us OLD TIMERS.Your never to old to learn something so jump on board bud. Joe Urbon
|
redneckhippie15
78 posts
Nov 26, 2004
5:30 AM
|
Well said C.J. and welcome. I also would like to hear more from you . You seem to be well spoken and knowlegable of the breed.
----------
Never watch you birds fly with your mouth open!
redneckhippie*blue dot lofts*
|
J_Star
171 posts
Jan 27, 2005
7:48 PM
|
I just thought to bring this post to the front page just to beat this dead horse some more back again. As might as well, this is so funny (LOL).
Jay
Last Edited by J_Star on Jan 27, 2005 7:48 PM
|
Mount Airy Lofts
40 posts
Jan 27, 2005
10:10 PM
|
Hey Scott C.,
Roller talk wouldn't be fun with out the B.S. (grin)
Heck I had moments when there was dead silence for 30 secs. and boy did it felt uncomfortable in a room filled with 7 veteran rollermen. Just hate how all of a sudden, the whole group stops talking in about the same time...
Heck, B.S. goes hand in hand I think. Keeps it interesting!
Heck, if this open forum didn't have the B.S. in now and then, it would be dead in no time. (sorry but true)
Good luck in this years World Cup Scott! March is just around in the corner for Region 4 here.
Thor
|
Bluesman
151 posts
Jan 28, 2005
3:56 AM
|
Jay & Thor.Glad you brought the post back to the front again.The fact is it really isn,t a dead horse anymore.Some B.S. but in reality this whole color thing is alive and well.
Here is how I feel:
The Purist breeders are here to stay.
The Color breeders are here to stay.
This hobby is growing faster than we will be able to keep up with.
We can,t stop talking and debating about color.
I feel we have to meet in the middle and try to debate whatever is being talked about.
None of us know everything.
We can all learn from each other.
The roller is a complicated rolling bird and will never be fully understood why.
If every time a question comes up and a color of a bird comes up or a Purist says something either side junps in and "Stirs the Pot" so to speak it always winds up going over the edge.
I think we can meet in the middle and discuss,debate whatever you want to call it and do it without the Words "Crossbred Color Mongrels" being used.I think these 3 words have caused more disention among us than any thing ever written or said on these forums.
I am reminded of the saying "Together we stand Divided we Fall".
Bottom line is we are all here wanting the same thing and that is to breed our birds to the best of our ability and to preserve this great hobby for all generations to follow.The only way to preserve it is to keep the Roll in our birds no matter if they are whatever color their is in a rainbow.
I hope this is written and taken the way I feel.I don,t have a way with words and have a hard time saying what I mean.David
|
DeepSpinLofts
3 posts
Jan 31, 2007
9:38 PM
|
Reading the posts here and was having a ball laughing about those crested rollers. I'm not really into crests, frills, feather-foots, bells, muffs, fantails, hoods and stuff like that. Like my birds fast, deep, (balled up tight like a tennis ball) and kitting close together like grapes on a vine.
Color breeding can be a tricky thing if performance is your ultimate goal. Back in 83' I tried a color experiment with my cousin who bred & trained roller pigeons with me. Paired up a Lavender Jaconette cock (Ray Perkins family) and a Tortoise Shell hen (Fireball) sent to me in a kit of 19 birds via Ohio from Harry Ashcraft. She was a bad dam! 30FT to 80FT in the air.... I kid you not! She wouldn't kit all that well but was a real strong high-flyer.
QUESTION: Anybody out there know if Harry Ashcraft of Akron Ohio still doing the roller man thing? The man bred the deepest stuff I ever saw in the air.
Well anyway.... the experience with the Jaconettes & Fireballs back then was unbelievable because before I had these type of rollers.... I just had birds that flipped & flopped (no spin).
NOTE: Only one round was bred from the Lavender Jaconette Cock & Fireball Tort hen. Now the colors of their squeakers were kind of weird looking to me back in those days and I thought I stumbled across something new in regards to color. One of the squeakers that looked like a whitish pink hue rolled down from about 40FT and busted its head wide open on my grandmother's rear roof in the the back yard. I said wholly shi_ and fetched a ladder and scraped the dead bird off the roof. I dammed near cried.... 18 years old and that was my first suicide roller I bred. The other squeaker was a white with black mottling. Came out to be okay. 15FT to 25FT and very frequent.
I'm going to end this by telling you all about the Lavender Jaconette Cock. I plucked the cocks left wing (to home him to my loft) because I wanted to fly the bird. I already knew what his mate (Fireball tort was about). After his flight feathers grew back and he was up flying with a young bird kit for a few weeks... I didn't see that bird roll, flip.... or even do a freakin setback. Nada! But, after a few months or so all the neighborhood kids was coming over to my grandmothers house to see my birds fly. Up goes my Lavender Jaconette with the kit (which up to that day was a major disappointment in the air). I'm looking up and out of no-where there's this light colored bird roughly 100FT in the air rolling, rolling, rolling, rolling, rolling, rolling and rolled down to the ground in the middle of a busy street (Cedar Street in Berkeley, Calif) a half block away. When me and my neighborhood friends arrived to the Lavender Jaconette in the street.... there he was lying on the ground flat as a pancake. I almost threw up!
So... it goes to show you that color can be a tricky thing when it comes to roll. You may think there's roll and there might not be none.... or you might think the roll is weak and it could be just too dominant (recessive rolldown gene). You just never know when it comes to color birds because like I said; "it's a tricky thing."
{P.S.} Richard Jaconette shipped that Lavender cock to me along with a White cock, Black hen and Black Hen Wht/Flights and I picked'em up at SFO Airport in 83'
Gotta roll out, getting tired now.
Marcus ===> deepspinners@usa.com
Last Edited by on Feb 17, 2007 6:33 PM
|
AIREDALE
61 posts
Feb 01, 2007
2:57 AM
|
Alan, To get back to your question, The United Oiental Roller Association lists a Master breeder Teddy Hull. Mr. Hull was known for his Birmingham Rollers(Whittingham/Hull strain?)on a show basis. This was back in the fifties,when flying and show types were similar.I recently found out he was renowned for Orientals.His birds had such rich color that I think he might have used Oriental rollers for the color factors.The problem is the dropped wings and the additional tail feathers.Teddy was a master at genetics, and probably bred forward to eliminate these factors.You should note that you will probably lose performance in the the process.The rap on Hull's birds was "all show and no roll".Some of his birds did roll,but when you breed a couple hundred a year,your bound to get a few.As far as combining the spin qualities of today with the color of that era, you have an awesome task ahead of you. Hope this helps. John
|
nicksiders
1313 posts
Feb 01, 2007
5:06 PM
|
Marcus,
You last name wouldn't happen to be Booker would it?
Nick
----------
Snicker Rollers
|
DeepSpinLofts
8 posts
Feb 17, 2007
6:29 PM
|
Nope... my last name isn't Booker.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
|
centralvalleylofts
62 posts
Feb 17, 2007
8:43 PM
|
stan
well here we go again this is funny stuff when you catch someone lying but heck we all heve lied about our birds every now and then like that bird rolled 50 feet when in reality the bird went no more than maybe 20 to 30 feet such a lie is called a white lie but when you lie stan you take the cake. stan dont get me wrong. perphaps you are saying the truth but not the hole thruth so i will let some of your own words speak for themself
My Crested birds came from a line of Pensom birds and they have the SPIN.(I never bred anything into these birds) to get the Crest on them.That was probably done in Englnd 80-90 years ago.These birds spin as well as any top notch Pensom bird alive today.
(never heard of pensom having any crested or almond birds.)
do you guys follow.
another thing that struck a cord 45 pairs i sure hope you breed at least one or two good birds shoot thats a lot of
shit to go throu for a back yard flyer that only breeds for himself and not propaganda.my opinion just tell the truth and the truth shall set you free.
steve
Last Edited by on Feb 17, 2007 9:14 PM
|
Hector Coya
127 posts
Feb 17, 2007
9:19 PM
|
Steve
did you hapen to see the Auction last month from England on the NBRC website,there was a bird donated that had a crest,that was in England,so if they have crest why cant anyone els,
I have a few crest and mine really roll fast and deep,people that come over are amazed at the roll.
hectore Coya
Last Edited by on Feb 17, 2007 9:22 PM
|
DeepSpinLofts
9 posts
Feb 17, 2007
9:33 PM
|
Hey Hector... don't you have a picture of those crested rollers on your website?
What family of rollers are they? Oriental?
Marcus
Deep Spin LOfts
|
Hector Coya
128 posts
Feb 17, 2007
10:15 PM
|
Frankly i dont know what family they are .
But they sure roll deep and fast ,thats all that matters to me.Hector C
|
Frankie
107 posts
Feb 17, 2007
11:33 PM
|
I agree with you Hector. I wouldn't care what family they were from as long as they did what they were suppose to do and you enjoy them... that's all that matters. Frankie
|
Ramiro
5 posts
Jul 01, 2008
12:11 PM
|
Is it possible to keep homers and roller in the same loft? I currently have some modenas and old german owls in it, but I'm in the process of acquiring some nice white racers because I would like to keep something that I am able to release and watch fly around. I'd also like to keep something that will fly around the loft and not go very far. I am not sure of what kind of roller to get, though. Is it possible to keep them both in the same loft? Will the rollers fly far away with the racers and get lost? Will I have to let them out at separate times? Thanks for the help.
|
Electric-man
1777 posts
Jul 01, 2008
2:23 PM
|
I tried it a few years ago, and it was a disaster! My rollers were to busy trying to keep up with the homers to roll!
When I had them in the same breeder pen, the homers would bully the rollers around and wouldn't let them nest or anything!
I would keep them seperate! JMO
----------
Val
"Site Moderator"
|
Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
604 posts
Jan 21, 2010
9:50 AM
|
Tony,
This Starfire guy sounds like he might be related to RK "the master", LMAO.
----------
Keep em Spinning
Joe
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3854 posts
Jan 21, 2010
10:34 AM
|
LOL, I'll leave it at that. ;-)
----------
FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria
Your Own Custom Telephone # Bands
|
rookie from ct
GOLD MEMBER
214 posts
Jan 21, 2010
10:55 AM
|
I hear you there Sunflower,LOL,not the same person but yes related. Dennis
|