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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
Compitition feeding
Compitition feeding
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SpinDoctor
4 posts
Sep 05, 2010
8:05 AM
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Competition fliers,
I have a question, and I am pretty sure someone out there has tried this. It seems that the goal would be to try and get every bird in the kit to the same level of conditition,
so that they perform as close as possible to each other, so, my queston is this. Instead of feeding a standard mix
when getting ready for a competition, Has anyone tried feeding the grains seperatley on different days? And if so, what were the results? Was there more uniformity in the kit, or did it make no difference at all? Any serious
input would be helpfull.
Thanks guys.
Last Edited by on Sep 05, 2010 8:10 AM
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donnie james
1158 posts
Sep 05, 2010
1:13 PM
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hay spin,
i always use a mix feed and they do good on it and i think using a good mix feed should do the birds good
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Donny James
"Fly The Best And Cull The Rest"
"Saying One Thing;Doing Its Another"
"Keep Your Head Planted In The Sky And Wings Spanned Wide"
1996 Piedmont Roller Club Lifetime Achievement Recipient
Portsmouth Roller Club Participation Award System Recipient 1994 '96 '97 And 2000
2001 Limestone,Ohio Sportsman's Club Lifetime Member Recipient
2002Portsmouth Roller Club Certified Judge
2004Portsmouth Roller Club Lifetime Member Recipient
"Miss Portsmouth"NBRC/90/J311 Rusty Dun Check Self Hen First Bird To Get Certified In Portsmouth Roller Club History With A Score Of 53 Judge By Joe Roe The 1993 World Cup Winner And John Bender The 1994 World Cup Winner
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Rick Mee
73 posts
Sep 05, 2010
3:24 PM
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The way you write this it seems you already know the answer. LOL
Of course the only way of getting a kit to come in line, both physically and psychologically is to feed them the same grain prior to a competition. I know I am not the only one, but I get to the point where I am actually counting each individual seed and pushing peas down their throats at certain times during the prep process. In the last bulletin, or possibly the one prior I went it to detail about how I do it. Not saying it will work for everyone, it is only a beginning, a guide. Play with it through out the year, modify it to accomodate your work schedule and environment.
Feeding is a big part of achieving collectivity on fly day, breeding is a bigger part.
Remember, you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit! If you don't have 20 spinners which can kit tight, possess kit chemistry and as a family are capable of breaking in unison....well then you better enter the 11 bird fly.
Rick
There are no secrets in rollers, some guys want you to think there are for obvious reasons.
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SpinDoctor
5 posts
Sep 05, 2010
3:38 PM
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Hi Rick,
Thank you for your input, I do have the article you submitted to the NBRC, and I will keep it on hand for reference. By the way, when are you coming back home to live in Washinton?
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Rick Mee
74 posts
Sep 05, 2010
3:52 PM
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I would like to move out there after my son finishes his first two years of college and my daughter graduates from high school and joins the Air Force, that is our window of opportunity and if we don't do it then it may never happen. My wife just started a job and I am trying to get my homer operation up and running. If I feel I can make a living off of homers then moving will not be that big of a impact. If we can get everything paid off with the exception of the house then it will all that much easier. This house should sell real quick, even with this economy. Fort Hood is the largest military installation in the world and is right up the road, soldiers and their families always looking for a home. My friend built a home in the part of the Yakima valley that I would like to move. If he don't get tore up too bad by the BOPs then I will probably be his neighbor. LOL I lost 2 birds in two years flying out there two days in a row to a migrating falcon....not bad.
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wishiwon2
355 posts
Sep 05, 2010
9:30 PM
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I always feed individual grains, not just for prepping before a competition. I have always done this ever since I began with rollers, for the exact reason you identified. I want all the members of a team to be on the same page all the time. Also I can buy individual grains cheaper than a mix. If I want the benefit of a blend, I feed pellets.
Im not pushing for top performance daily or all the time. But, I want to know who can hold up and who can not under the same conditions. All my birds are always "on trial". After a couple yrs if they mess up I usually look at myself first because they have been consistent til then, but I try to never fall in love with one so much I cant move it out if it isnt doing its job or needs babying to get it right.
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Jon
If it were easy, everybody would do it
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wishiwon2
358 posts
Sep 08, 2010
12:10 AM
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Steve, yes and no.
I feed mainly wheat, hard red. I also feed peas, milo, safflower and sometimes millet or barley. I have experimented with each grain, being fed for a period of time (1 week to a month) and noted how the birds reacted or changed with each different grain, over several years. My basic feed for kit birds is 1/3 milo and 2/3 red wheat. If I see they need peas I add some. I substitute 50% of the milo with safflower during the molt and occasionally use it as a treat too, adding an extra handful here or there. It has approx the same effect on flying/performance as milo for the short term (2-5 days). I use barley as a control grain to limit flying speed and height. Different grains absolutely have different affects on flying/performing. I want all the team to be on the same page as the rest. I believe if I gave them a mix, some would prefer/select different grains over others and each bird would eat a different composition of grains, therefore not all them reacting to the same management.
Yes I feed one type of grain, followed by another and so on. I typically feed the staple grain (wheat) first and then which ever others I am giving them following. It takes maybe 5 minutes more to do so than feeding once with a mix. It allows me a chance to pull any fast eaters or birds that are becoming too strong at the time when I feed the 2nd, 3rd ... grains. I dont have a prescription for what grains and what specific amounts I use because it varies depending on what I am seeing in the air. I am not as OCD as Mee feeding 1 or 2 peas individually to individual birds, but I want more control than mass feeding them a mix of grains. I also havent won nearly as many flys as he has, maybe I should pay more close attention .... Nah, they're still just pigeons, LOL.
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Jon
If it were easy, everybody would do it
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Rick Mee
81 posts
Sep 08, 2010
6:14 AM
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Jon, I only do it right before a competition feeding peas individually. For the most part, my A kit is fed a mix year round, only before a comp do I start feeding different grains separately. Only feeding grains separately only before competitions I believe points them out, as the chicken fighters like to call it. I think if you feed grain separately all the time then it is harder to "point" them when it is desired.
I was thinking you would be at the convention, sorry you couldn't make it.
Rick
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SpinDoctor
6 posts
Sep 08, 2010
7:19 AM
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Hey Rick,
would you be willing to explain for us rookies, how the different types of grains affect the flying habits
of Rollers, and what we should be looking for in order to know when to feed more, or less, of one type of grain?
Thanks Rick.
1. Red Wheat
2. Milo
3. Barley
4. Millet
5. Austrian peas
6. Safflower
Last Edited by on Sep 08, 2010 7:20 AM
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wishiwon2
359 posts
Sep 08, 2010
10:44 PM
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Mee,
I suspected thats how you do it, only in prepping for a fly. Just teasing with you a little about feeding 1 or 2 peas per individual bird.
Actually feeding them individual grains all the time makes it easier, I think. They are always in a predictable condition or can easily be brought to one, to begin prepping from. I want there to be little range in the stongest to weakest members within my kits. I can control that by not allowing them feed selection of their own. Those that dont fit get pulled.
One of these years I hope to make it to a convention. I simply cant afford it. 5 kids at home, 1 preparing to enter college, my cash is planned out ahead of time for me. No room for spendy extras like a hotel vacation to a pigeon party. I would love to get to meet more of the guys around the country, I guess I'll just have to judge more to get to do that.
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Jon
If it were easy, everybody would do it
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J_Star
2330 posts
Sep 09, 2010
4:44 AM
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This is starting to sound like a full time job not a hobby! It is the collective effort of the team that performance is exhibited. Mature rollers will perform similar in the team if fed from the same batch of feed. I don't think all those successful flyers and competitors are shoving feed down their birds’ through one grain at a time. Just speaking out loud...
Jay
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Rick Mee
87 posts
Sep 09, 2010
6:09 AM
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Jay, converse with the successful fliers, most are doing it very similarly.
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Rick Mee
88 posts
Sep 09, 2010
6:10 AM
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Oh and Spin Doctor, I did not forget. Man, this can take quite awhile to respond to. LOL
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J_Star
2334 posts
Sep 09, 2010
6:36 AM
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I have conversed with them and I hear you. But that is not the way I would want to do it. Maybe that is part of why I am not successful and also I am not taking competition as seariously as others. But I would want the team to respond to the feed as a team rather than individuals. That is my way of thinking.
Jay
Last Edited by on Sep 09, 2010 6:37 AM
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Rick Mee
90 posts
Sep 09, 2010
9:13 AM
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Jay, if you want to have a "team" you need to get them physically, as well as psychologically on the same playing field. If you are feeding them mix you will not create "evenness" through out your team. To obtain maximum teamwork you must have them all thinking the same, eating the same, housed the same. Breeding for team workers is the biggest part of it, however knowing how, what and when to feed, when and when not to rest, etc, is what brings the "team" in to form when they can give your maximum effort. If you become quite good at bringing your "team" in to form when you want to using all these tools you will may get lucky and have them perform to 50% or better of their maximum capabilities, this is usually enough to get you to place well if you have a good "team" assembled.
PS: Had two Cooper attacks today and a falcon yesterday.
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
970 posts
Sep 09, 2010
11:28 AM
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Rick... I have noticed that a lot of fliers refer to a (kit)as a team,what is up with that? Pensom referred to a (kit) as just that a (kit).I grew up in So,Cal in the 50's through the 70's and all the fly's that we attended all over So,Cal thy where always called what they were,a (kit). Only through the late 80's have I noticed that some people are using team rather than kit.I myself thank that this is wrong.Yes it my be petty but if it has been good enough for the likes of Bill Pensom,Bill Patrick,Danny Mckenzie,Lester Lemyer,John Walters and so many other pioneers of roller pigeon flying in America,Why change it? Any other old school roller folk notice this?
Last Edited by on Sep 09, 2010 11:30 AM
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Rick Mee
92 posts
Sep 09, 2010
11:55 AM
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Simple explanation.
With rollers, at least in my own backyard, I refer to my non developed birds, or developing "teams" as mere kits. My "teams" are made up of birds which have been selected for competition purposes which exibit teamwork...thus the term "team".
Very rarely do I refer to my top kit as my A kit, then B kit, and so on. My top kit is my competition team. Where you and others may call your second stringers as your B team, I call them my back ups.
To me, an old bird kit whose members have all been identified as having the necessary ingredients to make my top 20 are deserving of the term "team". After all, what are we trying to build, a team, or merely a kit?
Remember, Bill Pensom basically said that a roller is defined by it's performance, not because of it's lineage. If a roller rolled to his standard then it was deserving of the title Birmingham Roller, all those who fell short were mere tumblers.
To me, there are a lot of kits being flown out there, but there are few "teams" being flown whereas every bird in the kit is a high quality Birmingham Roller.
The word "team" to me denotes togetherness, a cooperative unit whose goal is the same.
Nearly anything I have ever written, or will continue to write regarding this breed of pigeon you will see the word "team" within the text. To me, building a "team" of Birmingham Rollers is one of the most difficult, arduous tasks I have ever set out to accomplish. I
IMHO, the difference between a team and a kit is substantial.
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
971 posts
Sep 09, 2010
12:12 PM
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Rick.....Your opine is so noted,and thanks for the comeback.
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wannaroll
230 posts
Sep 09, 2010
3:46 PM
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I agree with you Rick. I have 5 kits but only two teams. I think the sport has progressed and new ideas and terms are vogue. I'm flying 1 team in the Fall Fly on Sunday for the first time in comp. Mrs.Falcon has been visiting in the mornings hopefully she stays away Sunday morning.
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Dave - Hesperia, CA.
(San Bernardino Mountain Spinners)
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