warbie
5 posts
Dec 07, 2004
2:49 PM
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I have a question. How many people out there have been ripped off or taken advantage of when it comes to pigeons?
Anything no matter how big or small. Paid to much, were sold crummy birds, sold sick birds etc. Anything at all.
Please post where it happened. i.e. country, or state. Thanks
Roll On!!
Warbie
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K.Naylor
75 posts
Dec 07, 2004
3:13 PM
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Warbie, I know this is not the answer you were looking for but I have never been ripped before. The rollers have contacted me to some of the best people I know. I have gained some great friendships thru pigeons.
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Cliff
7 posts
Dec 07, 2004
3:42 PM
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I am embarassed to say how many hundreds of dollars I paid for six pair of birds, supposedly with Plona and Pensom 5l4 bloodlines, sight unseen, taking a guy in KC, Missouri at his word that they would produce spinners. I never flew them, raised about 70 birds from them and not one spinner; in fact nothing more than six feet. They are now the most expensive fosters in the country!
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warbie
6 posts
Dec 07, 2004
3:42 PM
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Naylor it doesn't even have to be in obtaining birds. Maybe someone who tried to scam birds from yo or the like.
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J_Star
103 posts
Dec 07, 2004
7:21 PM
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Always buyer be ware. When people start buying birds and other things without seeing and feeling what you are buying, 90% of the time you will be had. Unless they are buying from good freinds. I was not ripped off when I bought my rollers but I could have been... There are allot of feather merchants who claim to have the best of the best but always be ware!! The truth is these days you just can't take peoples' word anymore. I wish still is like the old days where a hand shake settled the deal.
In other things other than rollers, I was ripped off in many occasions, as we all say "You fool me once shame on you, you fool me twice, shame on me".
Jay
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Mother lode lofts
319 posts
Dec 07, 2004
8:22 PM
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Sorry Cliff but I hold the record for the most exspenive pair of fosters in the country, they came from Canada LOL LOL LOL oh man that's funny but true
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K.Naylor
76 posts
Dec 08, 2004
7:36 AM
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Warbie, I never sell birds to make a profit so it would be imposible for someone to scam me. I usually only give them away to help someone new out, i only sell them if they insist on paying. Kevin
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AD3
42 posts
Dec 08, 2004
10:40 PM
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Interesting Topic. Not sure if I got "ripped off" per se but I had buyers remorse the next morning I bought a pair. Serious money down the drain :( Many times as in my situation, it our fault. When one starts with rollers, the excitment coupled with being impatient makes you do silly things and buy even sillier birds. Good thing I only felt this once and learned my lesson. Least to say, if I wanted to sell this pair, I would sell it for 1/10 (of less) of the price I paid for it, if that! Strictly used as feeders now.
PS: Guy I bought the pair from has "good" birds and this one pair I bought doesn't clearly represent his loft, but for untested, unflown breeders (relying on paper) I feel I got a ripped off. He knew I was a newbie though ... didn't stop him from "hooking me up" as he said ... LOL
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Birmingham Rollers by AD3 Website
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fhtfire
75 posts
Dec 09, 2004
12:00 AM
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Well,
When I first started out I paid for some birds from Nevada. I was told these birds would roll...well I bred from them...and not a roll from one of the offspring...they sucked. Then I got some birds from Vacaville CA...I was told about how good this guys kits were...and how he won some comps...but I did not notice one kit box. Again ripped off. Then I met some real fanciers like Chuck Roe, Scott Campbell, Mort Emami and Bob Mcguan. Now...the birds I got from them...well...they roll and they were for the most part...FREE! I have found that the true roller guys...either give you the birds, let you pick from the air, or compete and do very well in the comps! But like every first time roller guy...you are so excited about getting birds and you really do not know what is out there or who is who in the roller world..part is my fault for not researching more and jumping the gun!...But I am happy now!
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Mongrel lofts
28 posts
Dec 09, 2004
9:10 AM
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Hey,
This topic brings back memories, and the reason for my handle on this forum.. When I was young, me and my girlfriend worked at my parents hamburger joint. We would take both our checks, and spend them on the best rollers money could buy, as good as they come as I was told so often.. We were paying from $50 dollars to $100 dollars a pair for the Bass pink laces, the opal white bars and toy stencil rollers.. Man, for a young guy, I thought I had rollers that rocked the world!! OH, except for one thing,, when I bred the birds and flew out the young,.. Some flipped and some rolled down, but rarely a bird that rolled well.. No one told me these birds were crossed up pigeons for colors and factors, and then called rollers.. They were always sold as Birmingham rollers, as good as they come.. And for good money!!
You can imagine the shock!!! When I seen my first kit of real Birmingham rollers? I will never forget the day,, I was stunned!! I new I would never be happy with the Mongrel crossed up for pretty feather birds I had been sold as Birmingham rollers.. I put an add in the news paper and sold the birds for 1/10 of the price I had paid for all 125 of them, and used the money to buy one pair of true rollers..
Was I ripped off, kind of.. I was told I was buying Birmingham rollers, as good as they get.. Should I have known better? Probably, cause none of these guys were flying their birds for me,, they all had an excuse, why they couldn't fly birds anymore.. Especially the ones I was buying,, LOL Did I know, the birds were not pure rollers, but crossed up pigeons of different breeds,, Hell No!! I would have never bought a bunch of Mongrel bred pigeons as Birmingham rollers, if I had any idea, people were mixing breeds to get pretty feathers!! So I spent a few grand and worked a couple years in a hamburger stand to learn a lesson.. There are lots of Mongrels out there, being sold as rollers, buyer beware!! Thats my story, Mongrel Lofts
Last Edited by Mongrel lofts on Dec 09, 2004 4:32 PM
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Alan Bliven
37 posts
Dec 09, 2004
4:03 PM
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These are some entertaining stories! Better than the late night cop shows.
I have only been ripped off by people breaking into my lofts and stealing birds. But I don't worry about that now with 5 German Shepherd Police dogs patrolling the area.
Also, some frustrated hunters came by once and blew away a whole kit with shotguns right in my front yard.
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Alan
Last Edited by Alan Bliven on Dec 09, 2004 4:06 PM
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J_Star
105 posts
Dec 09, 2004
6:37 PM
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In regard to Alan's comments, I been hearing and reading that there are allot of kit theft out in CA. Is that True? I also read that people when they compete and others start to notice their excellent rollers that the theives start watching the flyers house to scope around and steal the birds. Thus some flyers opt out from competions. Is that true also?
Around here where I live nobody saw a roller b4, and people are more amazed by the pigeons finding their way home and come back to their kit box than rolling!! go figure..
Jay
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Mother lode lofts
320 posts
Dec 09, 2004
7:28 PM
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Jay like anywhere it depends on where you live. for most no problems
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Alan Bliven
38 posts
Dec 09, 2004
10:34 PM
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Jay,
I have three nice puppies that need a home. ;)
BTW... I spoke to Danny Horner tonight and ordered some birds. He says he knows Brian McCormick but has no idea who you are LOL. But thanks for the recommendation. We had a good talk.
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Alan
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J_Star
107 posts
Dec 10, 2004
4:40 AM
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Alan,
Now I have hurt feelings. He referes to me "Jay Alnimer from Ohio". The funny thing is he still remember the first batch of birds that I bought from him. By the way expect couple extra birds from him with your order. My second order from him, he gave me 8 extra birds. You will be happy with the birds.
Tell me what am I gonna do with them puppies??? I Have three kittens need a good home...(LOL) just kidding..
Jay
Last Edited by J_Star on Dec 10, 2004 4:57 AM
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J_Star
108 posts
Dec 10, 2004
5:32 AM
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About a month ago while my birds were in lock down, A stray pigeon came and landed on the top of the kit box wants in. I opened the kit door and went in using the same dril my birds use to get in the box. It is from a different breed, it has a very short peak, rounded head and eyes and saddle back, and have frill on its chest. The sear looks like a heart shape. It is a youngester. It is a white bird with silver saddle and bard. The bars are some kind of black and bronz. The leggs are muffed or groused covering all the toes. The tail is also white and there are couple of black feathers, one on each side. It is of show quality bird. I think it is an Oriental Frill. It is not banded. I put an ad in the paper for two weeks and got no calls or responces. Now I don't know what to do with it. It gets along very well with my rollers and a very timid bird and I think it is a hen. Any suggestion!!!
Jay
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J_Star
109 posts
Dec 10, 2004
7:03 AM
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Scott,
Funny (LOL). May be Stan would be interested...
Jay
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Steve S.
24 posts
Dec 10, 2004
11:11 AM
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Jay,
First thing you want to do is get it out and away from your birds.
If you don't know the loft it came from you may get some sickness you can't get rid of.
Bad Omen
Steve
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J_Star
110 posts
Dec 10, 2004
12:00 PM
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Steve, I did that and put it on worms medication for two days and then on antibiotics for a week. It is a very healthy bird and of show quality. The reason I kept it is to save it from the hawks around and I thought that somebody would miss it. Possible the owner does't read the newspaper (LOL).
By the way Alan, both shipments I received from Danny, all squeekers had worms. I suggest that you put them on wormer medication first thing when you get them. I used wormer gel from Foy's. You mix it in the water for two days only and repeat the process after a month to break the cycle.
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
342 posts
Dec 10, 2004
12:46 PM
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Jay, the last shipment of squeaks he sent me last month, a few of the younger ones seem to have worms. There getting straightend out now though. Good luck with those Horners.
Brian.
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Alan Bliven
39 posts
Dec 10, 2004
5:07 PM
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Thanks for that!
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Alan
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PR_rollers
551 posts
Feb 19, 2008
7:35 PM
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Reading your post cliff reminds me of when i first bought my rollers from a breeder in the NBRC in 1999,I pay $380.00 for 6 birds shipping and all with pedigree papers ,which said the parents to the birds i got were all champion,I saw so many champion i was in heaven then i was told don't fly the youngster but to breed the youngsters when they are 8 month old. something Bill Pensom wouldn't advise on.surprising to me now when i think about it since he was a student of Pensom ...
anyway i bred about 50 youngster and some only roll 5 feet others didn't roll at all...man for years i thought i was doing something wrong but i did every thing in the book from feed to rest to changing parents and nothing a bunch of culls.It made me almost quit flying rollers but I knew i was a good trainer from past experience with my tipplers and racing homers.that I said it can't be me.so i cross them with my Jacs after 5 years with keeping them pemson pure i had to cross them something i promise i would never do. and i got some roll into them but they started late 2 years.and even if you starve these birds they still were strong fly so high and for hours .so i let the hawk have his dinner until i was left with two,and i use these for training my young ones to trap .now these two roll,after 7,years.and that funny,I keep them because they will feed my young when i start breeding ,and they listen to me other wise they would have been gone a long time ago.not even the hawk want these black badges .but talk about being rip...pedigrees Ha,been there,done that.this is what hold me back for years since i couldn't go to different loft to see rollers guys here no one flys them here like i do... I had to get my birds from the States ...so many merchants out there...
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Ralph....
Last Edited by on Feb 20, 2008 2:50 PM
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Snake Doctor
212 posts
Feb 19, 2008
7:47 PM
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I guess I am really blessed, the folks I have dealt with have been very generous and willing to stand behind every claim, replace or refund. It doesn't get any better than that! By the way from the very first contact I made with Roller folk, to the man warned about the scam artists.
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"Semper Fi"
SD
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Scott
59 posts
Feb 19, 2008
7:50 PM
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Ralph, funny I know exactly who you are talking about, he has an inlaw in Texas doing the same thing, I saw one of those pedigrees up in Oregon, man looking at the Peds hows could anyone go wrong ,if only pedigrees could fly LOL
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Feb 19, 2008 8:22 PM
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birdman
491 posts
Feb 19, 2008
8:04 PM
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Yeah, and if you study the pedigrees you will notice lots of obvious illegitimate offspring too.
But man, all those Champions in the pedigrees are sure impressive for the un-informed...lol
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sippi
56 posts
Feb 19, 2008
8:13 PM
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I cant count the times I have paid good money for junk. The last one stands out the most. I bought some birds from a guy and asked all the right questions. Number one "do you fly your birds". Answer: Yes I fly them every chance I get. Next from me "I am looking for flyers not show birds"
Answer: You will be happy with these birds then because the fly very well.
I bought them and boy did they fly very well. They would fly for and hour or more but if you bunched them all in a wad there wasnt a roll between them. I finally have located good pigeon men now and those days are behind me now.
Sippi
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bantieman
23 posts
Feb 20, 2008
9:56 AM
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Glad I'm not the only who spent good money on birds that sucked. I finally have some birds that will actually roll.
I've thrown more money into dogs that aren't even very good potlickers lol. A few grand later I've finally found some good people that are willing to help out.
Of course I went against the rule of going to see what your getting before you hand over the cash. Not so hard to do with a show breed, but performance is another ball game.
Luke
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maxspin
185 posts
Feb 20, 2008
11:13 AM
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No rip offs here. Everyone that I have dealt with has been very helpful.
Keith
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luis
663 posts
Feb 20, 2008
12:11 PM
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I'm sure we have all been taken for a ride at some point!Ignorance and impatience is not a good combination.Also trusting people who don't have your best interest at heart can get you into trouble.
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Velo99
1584 posts
Feb 20, 2008
3:35 PM
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I have sold a few birds. My rule is this;I sell only squeakers for 5 bux a head. That probably doesnt cover feed and meds but it does place a value on the birds that the buyer takes into consideration when handling training and flying.
I try to "place" my culls with an experienced fancier willing to put a little work into them and see if there is anything there. Sometimes a different management style can bring the performance out in a bird.If that doesn`t work most guys can use a few more fosters.
yits
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V99
Keep the best. Eat the rest.
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MANN
38 posts
Jul 10, 2009
1:23 AM
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I think if a person speaks highly of ther birds and gives you free birds and they turn out to be junk you was ripped off.
Last Edited by on Jul 10, 2009 7:52 AM
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joelbanc
72 posts
Jul 10, 2009
3:56 AM
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Soon after buying a bird from a Feed Store/Pet Shop,
it turned sickly and died. I called the store owner
to see if he would replace it. He said no and I shouldn't have bought from anyone who had sick birds!
Yes but it was him that had sick birds and I could't believe what he had just told me. To say the least we had a heated argument and he used a four letter word starting with "F" which realy burned me up even more. Okay, I'll just go down the road and buy my feed from another Feed Store instead. I wanted to report him somehow but I decided the guy wasn't worth it.
Last Edited by on Jul 10, 2009 4:26 AM
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rookie from ct
65 posts
Jul 10, 2009
6:00 AM
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Like everyone else getting back into the hobby I was so in a hurry to get birds and had no one who would fly them for me so I bought 18 birds from 3 difrent people put them in a kit box and flew the heck out of them out of 18 there were 3 20 to30 footers and one 15 footer so i bread them together and fosterd the rest they were only $6 each not bad at all Rookie from ct
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3536 posts
Jul 10, 2009
7:52 AM
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The best thing to do is to give a guy squeekers and make him prove them. Don't say nothing, don't encourage them by talking up thier parents. It is not the sellers fault or the person who is breeding them's fault if what you bought or recieved turns out to be junk. It was your decision. I have seen perfectly good pigeons ruined by dumb asses who thought there would be no work involved in flying a good kit and didn't work them properly. They are quick to blame someone else for thier stupidity and lazyness.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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diamondrollers
324 posts
Jul 10, 2009
12:36 PM
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getting ripped off is to common in this hobbie. When you think about it is not the sellers fault but the buyers. When looking to get birds dont get them from the first breeder you meet,do your best to get around to see what rollers can really do. I belive that any one off us can buy birds right off the top breeders in the world to just be unhappy. Not all of them fast,deep,straight,and rolling right. Lets say you bought a kit of 20 birds off kgb and out of the 20 only 6 of them were any good. what would you do?
sal
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harrison
1020 posts
Jul 10, 2009
2:32 PM
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As a youngster god every bird I bought i was ript off.
I bought my stock birds from a recomended top flyer.
I whent to his house and he had his old bird kit out WOW that was it his birds were the once for me.
We got talking and he didnt have any birds for sale.
I askd if I could come and watch his birds when he was off work at weekends and he said yes.
A couple of weekends later he said look you seem like a nice lad and what I can see you realy like rollers.
I have a yearling kit there that hasnt been flown that much so I carnt guareente what is what.
But I can guarentee you will get your moneys worth.
So I bought the birds from him and to this day havent taken a single bird from any other loft.
I bought the birds without seaing them fly and no that
I was verry lucky to get the birds I did and I respeckt that.
We have now become good friends and I even get pairs bread for me from his best stok birds.
there is some nice people out there who are willing to help a newbie but then they are many who like to take advantage and dollers.
I no its a long answer to your question but I like talking about rollers and posting.
yours in roll harrison uk hull.
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gentle johnnie
61 posts
Jul 10, 2009
3:42 PM
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No rip off here! got my first kit from Dr. Cliff Ball he told me to fly them hard and cull even harder.Ferrell Bussing saw them during his visit to Amarillo told me to breed from them good stock never flew them breeding from them first young were flipping first time up, and have gotten better as they get older. also have a great friend in Kenny Hartman or Velo99 and Bruce Howery they answer any questions have and have given me much help with my rollers.
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Gentle Johnnie "Angels of the Sky Loft"
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jnyce
769 posts
Jul 10, 2009
6:18 PM
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i have been taking advantage of as a lot of fanciers have mainly when people start talking names and peds you can get caught up in the fast talking . i have some good birds atleast i like to think so but if someone expresses intrest in buying a bird i would give them some but i also charge 10 bucks a bird regaurdless of what the birds does and regraudless of what the blood line is thats just me
jerry t
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macsrollers
131 posts
Jul 11, 2009
11:30 AM
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The roller hobby is no different then any other thing in life. Whenever their is money involved there are peoople out to scam and rip off, and then the good people who are of integrity. I have bought birds(too many over the years!) out of lawn show auctions. Some have been outstanding, but more have been junk and I feel I got taken because they were so called reputable fliers birds and they even personally stated that they were right out of their # 1 team. But I guess they don't think anyone who buys them will take them home and fly them and realize that they got a cull. I try to support the shows, WC, and NBRC by buying some birds from the auctions. The birds I donate either do what I say they do in the air or they are squeakers out of proven pairs to enhance the chances of themselves being good birds. Don't understand why anyone would put their junk in an auction and personally put their name behind. I'm talking about birds they say are proven, not about squeakers as we know there is no garuantee on those. Another thing to consider before you bad mouth birds you bought. It could have been you that did not manage the birds right by how you bred them and how you fly them. Newcomers often bad mouth the birds they got when it is really them not knowing what they are doing with the birds. I have heard several guys tell me they are moving away from certain families of birds when they have only had them for one season or less. How can you move away from something that you haven't proven. There are too many reputable and good people out there to get quality birds from. Finding them is not alwasy easy, but use resources like Rollerpigeon.com and that should help eliminate your chances of getting ripped off. As you gain friends in this hobby you will find the best birds you get are free or cost you a bag of feed or 2!
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Scott
2345 posts
Jul 11, 2009
11:39 AM
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Like anything It is up to the buyers to do their homework, if you freely give your money to someone than you weren't ripped off, you may not have spent your money wisely , but ripped off , no.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
335 posts
Jul 11, 2009
11:42 AM
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Good point Scott.JDA
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3442 posts
Jul 11, 2009
12:14 PM
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There is some level of truth in this thread which is great, but, I also think, there is just as often, an unrealistic expectation by some buyers that a bird with a name or band number behind it guarantees out-of-the-box success or happiness in the roller pigeon hobby.
Listen up, breeding and flying good birds is NOT EASY! Maintaining them year after year is NOT EASY. You better have "stock sense" if you are gonna do well with a family or making your own, or you better get to chasing the latest World Cup winner.
Funny, I heard that recent WC Winner Richard Hayes could not GIVE birds away before he won the WC, now he can get hundreds of dollars for these same birds! LOL
Now when some guy who buys his birds doesn't do well with them because they sit in trees or fly for 10 minutes or didn't spin out of the shipping box, he gonna blame Richard?! LOL
I would say this: "seller beware" your customer may not have a clue how to raise pigeons. LOL
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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pat66
362 posts
Jul 11, 2009
12:23 PM
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Tony, Well said! SELLER BEWARE!
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Pat
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winwardrollers
269 posts
Jul 11, 2009
12:51 PM
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Tony
Great statement..."I would say this: "seller beware" your customer may not have a clue how to raise pigeons. LOL"
This is why I am selective of who gets birds from me..
More than.. likey.. most don't know how to fly the rollers.
We had a guy come and watch a fly as we were going around to differant places...he stated.. why do you just have a few birds rolling?...if you have twenty shouldn't all the birds be rolling?..lol... great expectations for a newbie...easier said than done...even if you have the best of stock.
Thinking about it.. maybe I got riped off... got birds for free in 1995 and... had to.. work on improving them ever since.
bwinward
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2009 1:01 PM
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916birds
44 posts
Jul 11, 2009
11:08 PM
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talk about getting ripped off!!! when i started the hobbie. i was ripped off. i spent a little bit of money on some birds not having a clue at all if his birds spun at all. and no they didnt spin, they just flipped. but then i did some research and i ended up here....
the worst rip-off is when a falcon or a hawk comes and rips off your best bird!!! like me, they'll leave you really speachless!
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gabe454
1595 posts
Jul 11, 2009
11:19 PM
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I got ripped off but it was my fault for trying to get deals on birds lost alot of money but met the right people and now im happy with what i got!
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GABE
454 LOFT
L.P.R.C
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j .wanless
856 posts
Jul 12, 2009
2:47 AM
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hi all
cant say ive ever really been ripped off or have i ever ripped any one off.but my advice to any one wanting birds is go + see them .never buy on ear say if you see them or thier parents + they impress you buy them .if they dont impress you keep your money + then you cant blame any one else but yourself.like macsrollers said when ever theres money involved theres always people that want it off you .
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3549 posts
Jul 12, 2009
12:05 PM
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Sell or give away squeekers.........that will save you from a lot of grief when dealing with the clueless
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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T-town-rollers
78 posts
Jul 13, 2009
7:02 AM
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I don't know if this is the kind of storys your looking but heres what happened to me. Theres a man in my town who raises rollers. But this guy is somewhat differant. He will buy every rolldown you have if they are still alive. He has bought probly 20 rolldowns over the past few yrs.. In fact he was sitting on my patio with me whatching one kit fly and a bird rolled down in my neighbors back yard. We hadn't even seen if the bird made it or not. And he said I want to buy that bird. I told hime let me wait and see if he lives thru this. And in a few days he came over and payed me $25.00 for it. Thats seams to be the going rate on rolldowns. Everytime he has bought one he pays me $25 dollars each. Sure helps on buying feed. I wish he would pay me what I have invested in them.
Lee-T-town-rollers
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J_Star
2012 posts
Jul 13, 2009
8:32 AM
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Now Lee, with all due respect, don't you think you are ripping this guy off! Just wondering...
Jay
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