Bluesman
180 posts
Jan 30, 2005
3:41 AM
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Scott.I am directing this question to you as a Judge;
How many times(approx) as a Judge have you seen where depth and the other Q part was a deciding factor in determining a winner?
How important are they for competition?
I heard or read that there is a limit to what can be given for these.
Have you ever given the max.allowed to a bird?
I have been invited to join a club about 150 mile east of me.The Chesapeake Roller Club.(CHRC).They have 8 or so flys a year.Thinking about getting my feet wet.I think they fly by NBRC rules.
See before I even start I am trying to get an edge.LOL.David
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Mother lode lofts
467 posts
Jan 30, 2005
6:43 AM
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Dave there is no one out there with the title of "judge" there are just those have done some, and there are those that have done more than some, and there are a few that have done so much that it would have me living in the loft if I did it.
Dave qaulity and depth are "major" factors. First the min must be met, for depth that is 10 feet. For qaulity min "I" want them rolling straight, with no deviation in the roll such as wing swithing, in other words fluid and "no" glitches in the roll,and they must come out of the roll at least fairly clean because I consider that part of the roll. and do it fast enough to not count the revs, if I can pick up axle wingers I wont score them either.
Judges can vary quite a bit from what is scored and what isn't. The above is the way I was taught and is how we do it here. If you look at the regional flys you will see big differances in the top scores from region to region, much of this has to do with differances in the judging.
The finals judge will give a much better perspetive and you will se this once the finals are flown
Now to answer your question the multipliers go 1.0 - 2.0 for depth
And 1.0 - 2.0 for qaulity
When you award them at the end of the fly you are averaging it all out as not all the birds in a break are not equel nor are all the breaks equel.
Basicly it comes down to an educated guess and overall impression as we aren't computers.
No I have never awarded a 2.0 as I consider that to the brass ring that can never be had. There isn't a kit out there that couldn't be better in some area.
The highest I have awarded is a 1.6 for qaulity and a 1.5 for depth.
To show you what qaulity and death will do for you I'll do a few numbers
say the raw score is a 100 points and you have a kit that is min depth and min qaulity which means 1.0 X 1.0 that equels 1.0 . times that by a 100 and you have 100 as your final score
Now take a decent kit with a raw score of 100 and qaulity and depth mulitipliers of say 1.4 and 1.4 multiply that and it is 1.96 now times that by the 100 point raw score and you end up with a total of 196
That is a 96 point difference between the two kits on the final score.
So how big of a difference does it make ? big difference.
Last Edited by Mother lode lofts on Jan 30, 2005 7:45 AM
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Bluesman
182 posts
Jan 30, 2005
8:24 AM
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Scott.I think I understand that.LOL. I am dumb about this so bear with me.
You say a raw score 0f 100.Which I thing is given to the birds that roll the min.
If the first kit had 500 raw score the 1.4 of the second kit wouldn,t help any would it?
One other thing I read and didn,t understand.
George Mason & a scorekeeper was judging a kit and the kit was so good that George told the scorekeeper to quit writing down scores because nobody would believe them.Why would he do this?? David
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Mother lode lofts
468 posts
Jan 30, 2005
1:05 PM
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Dave you have a scoreing system that takes in qaulity, frequency and depth. I put in qaulity first as without that the rest are meaningless. Yes a raw score of a 100 points with both multipliers ar 1.0 X 1.0 = 100 and yes if a kit with these multipliers with 500 raw could beat that other kit. And the point is ? that other kit with 260 raw with a 1.4 x 1.4 = 510 . If that same kit had 500 raw that would be 980 We are looking for the best all round kit here and not looking for an exscuse for a kit of stiffs winning. Who breeds for stiffs ? I certainly don't as they are about exciting as watching grass grow and the same holds true for a kit of ten footers. Check fly reports and see if thier are any kits winning with the min. as far as qaulity and depth. I've never seen them win anything.
As for the comment I would say he was joking would'nt you ?
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Bluesman
183 posts
Jan 30, 2005
1:53 PM
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Scott.Sometimes I think I breed for stiffs.LOL.DAvid
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Mother lode lofts
469 posts
Jan 30, 2005
2:07 PM
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What you think that your alone LOL You would'nt believe how many times I've set there under my team with a judge and I'm thinking "boy does this team look like dog crap today" Take my fly for the fall fly finals, it was raining pretty good when I kicked the team out, for six minutes they were scoreing well and then went on the left wing and flew like homers, after six minutes only two birds rolled once and that was all that she wrote. It is all just part of the game, you do what you can and then on fly day you open the door and cross your fingers.
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J_Star
196 posts
Jan 31, 2005
6:35 PM
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Sometimes flyers change a thing or two b4 the completion thinking that it will boost their performance. This sometimes backfires. If the kit is working at 90% or better, then don't change a thing. Sometimes the weather is not in your corner and possible that birds are tired. Have you notice that sometimes when you open the kit box for them to fly, some just sit in the box not interested in flying. Have you ever wondered why!! Just a thought...
Please, don't think I am being a smart ass because I don't compete just yet. There are lots of materials been written by good flyers who won completions in the past about how to prep your kit for comp. Check each one method by practicing it through your normal exercises and see what suit you and your birds the best. Just my thoughts...
Jay
Last Edited by J_Star on Jan 31, 2005 6:46 PM
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Mother lode lofts
479 posts
Jan 31, 2005
7:50 PM
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Dave it's all of the above. I don't wach the barometer but I do of watching the clouds as it can get real hectic up there as I'm backed up against the Sierra Nevada mountain range.
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