rotti
30 posts
Feb 03, 2005
4:37 AM
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Wow. I joined the roller community about a year ago. It seemed like a great group of people. They were all interested in the same thing I was. Rollers. Not colors, not genetics, not pedigrees. Just putting up birds and let the chips fall where they fall. Now it seems it's all about color. Who did this, who did that,to get this rare color. So as a newbie I would like to say; I really don't give a F*&^ about color. I don't give a F*&^ if you think you have the best birds in the world. I am interested in birds that perform. That's it. I don't care if it was crossed with a fantail. If it flys and rolls and kicks ass that's what I want. All those breeders out there impressed with pedigrees. Hell I can right one tommorow. I can put an NBRC band on a pouter and call it a roller. You all claim to be the hardcore roller fans. Well you are the ones killing the sport. Feather merchants may take my money but you all are the ones killing the spirit. I for one will keep breeding and hopefully this year compete. But as for the question is it a roller or not? Put it in the air. If it don't roll? Flour it and fry it. Makes a mighty tasty pigeon nugget. Don
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
204 posts
Feb 03, 2005
5:39 AM
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Don, I want to apologise for those who may have disallusioned you to the sport/hobby. It appears this color "tornado" finds its way to other sites as well and alienates good people like you and others from participating.
I have heard now from both sides to this color debate and see that it leads nowhere constructive.
Once the person who got me started told that that his goal was the roll and that if a d@#m seagull would roll with the right velocity and style he would raise them too. lol
Those that sell pigeons will not be allowed to use these forums as a method to get customers. This is my site and as such am the only breeder permitted to do so. lol
Thanks for your comments. FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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viper
28 posts
Feb 03, 2005
6:50 PM
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100% agree with you both and its about time thanks
Blake
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benlc1962
1 post
Feb 03, 2005
9:48 PM
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Don, Funny how fads come and go. The hoola hoop,the pet rock
, the color debate, you name it. You are right about the attitude of the hard core anti color and the pro color factions. You must give them credit for the passion they feel about their respective opinions. It is a complex debate...On one hand you could ponder,what if man never propogated the roller pigeon to begin with....And where and when did the first pure Birmingham rollers appear? Where'd they come from? To me the color thing is just an extention mans nature to tinker with animals in an attempt to "
make them better". question to the anti color faction, Do you consider the "show pen rollers" to be Birmingham Rollers
? By this I mean are they "ok"? To you pro color folk out there, If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck is it still a duck? One other thing I thought is so ironic,....
mongrel opposed to mongrels....lol You guys keep it civil,
I love debate but hate to see someone get rude or out of control over a difference of opinion. AT times I could swear I was reading pro life and pro choice bickering on abortion....I Challege all to sell thier ideals with the best of salesmanship and dignity."Love thy enemy as thy self"!!!!!Ben
Last Edited by benlc1962 on Feb 03, 2005 9:51 PM
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rotti
31 posts
Feb 04, 2005
3:42 AM
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No need to apologise Tony. I'm not disillusioned. Just trying to understand why the ruckus. If colored birds are no good why are they being bred? If only hard colored birds roll,why are there colored birds out there? If only the roll matters, what difference does coclor make? It would seem that no matter what side of the color fence you sit on, if you believe colors play a part in the ability to roll, then you are both in agreement. You may disagree as to which colors roll best but you agree color makes the roller. How absurd. No wonder this argument goes on forever. It makes no sense. If you think rare colors can't roll then obviously you think roll is connected to color. If this were so all rollers would look the same. How boring. My loft has birds ranging from a blue bar to solid white. Does this mean because of color I have no rollers? I hope not. Because I have seen some of them actually roll. Just my two cents Tony. Don't apoligize for things you didn't do. You have a great sight here and I try to visit daily. I don't become disillusioned that easily. I just thought some of the people here needed to remember what the sport was about. Raising the best rollers they can. No matter what color.I've heard the stories of Pensom seeing a bird rolling and going to find if he could buy it. My question is;did he stop to wonder what color it was? Did he ask to see the pedigree? Or did he just see an exceptional roller with something to add to his own stock and went for it? Damn thing could have been a mongrel crossbred for color for all he knew. Unlike some of us he knew a good roller when he saw it. Color didn't matter. Breeding didn't matter. But the performance did. I think I'll follow that example and breed my birds to roll. Whatever color they are. Don
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Mother lode lofts
482 posts
Feb 04, 2005
7:33 AM
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Dan I have to tell you that when you wrote that first post you wrote something like " Feather merchants may take my money but they take the the spirit away" to be honest with you Dan that one kind of floored me and made me really question whether such topics should be talked about or just swept under the rug. I still believe that it is to important to the breed not to just make it some dirty little secret to hide from the new guys.
On your last post you asked a question on whether Pensom would care what color a bird is ? I would say "no" but that is kind of the "point" isn't it ? You kinda bulked all colors including the standard stuff into one group away from the hard colors,not sure why. Dan I'm going to tell you here that I have enjoyed your posts,that doesn't mean that I agree with you on everything but I still enjoy them.
Ben I enjoyed your post, you asked if the birds in show cages are Birmingham Rollers, I am assuming that you are referring to show birds and if so that question would be a "no", they are pushing to class it as it's own breed and is no longer the same bird.
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rotti
32 posts
Feb 05, 2005
3:57 AM
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Hi Scot. First things first. It's D"o"n. Not D"a"n. Just razzing you. Anyways what I meant in my first post was. Feather merchants may cheat me out of my money but the bickering and infighting among those in the sport are ruining it for the others. I don't believe you can be on either side of the color issue without claiming you breed for color. If you breed for the roll only the color doesn't matter. If it's pink and looks like a fantail but spins 40' tight, fast, and clean is it a roller? If it's a blue check that flipped once and only raises non spinners is it a roller? I don't agree with someone selling birds they have never flown. If they don't compete to prove they have quality birds they should say so. But on the other hand if you can cross in something and get a new color that can roll with the best why not? I am glad you enjoy my posts. Like I said I'm new to this and learning as I go. I just don't understand where color fits in. This is a performing breed. Not for showpens. It all happens in the air. Everything we do is to get a better performance in the air. Nothing else should matter. Someday one of us may progress to the point we can tell a good roller by just seeing it in a loft. Til then... We can only judge them in the air. By the way never sweep any subject under the rug. It helps everyone here to hear differing opinions. It just seems this one gets rehashed to often and pits breeder against breeder. We're all in this for the same reason. To raise the best rollers we can. Don
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Mother lode lofts
485 posts
Feb 05, 2005
7:50 AM
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Don/Dan I was going to reply back but then we would be back to square one LOL, You asked is a " bluecheck that flips still a roller " That would be a cull Don, why are you useing a blue check as an example ? why not use a an oddside ? The color thing and how it related to the breed is a little (lot) more complex than your post.
Your right though the bickering gets senceless and does nothing but goes around in circles making hard feelings between people when there should be none. No matter what you do with the birds it is just us and the dog in the backyard 98 0/0 of the time,some want to breed stricktly for what the breed has to offer and some get excited to see what is popping ut of the nest for them. So in the end I guess that it is all good and people are going to go the direction that suits them. But also there was a whole lot of good info in those posts that needs to be out there for the new guys. Dan no matter what you breed just follow the roll with a color blind eye and your birds go where they go, when you breed stricly for roll you learn to find the beauty within the bird itself and the color means nothing. Don there is a funny thing about a truelly first class bird,and that is they don't vary that much from loft to loft. And one look into a stock loft can tell you a whole lot and color has nothing to do with it.
Last Edited by Mother lode lofts on Feb 05, 2005 8:43 AM
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benlc1962
2 posts
Feb 05, 2005
1:05 PM
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AMEN BROTHER MOTHER LOAD!
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STARFIRE
100 posts
Feb 05, 2005
4:47 PM
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Hey you guys:
Are you forgetting my Crested ROLLERS?They have nice colors too.hahahahahaha.=Stan Arnold=
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rotti
33 posts
Feb 05, 2005
8:27 PM
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Hi Scot. I used the blue check because it seemed a pretty basic color. I think your last post was a perfect ending to the color debate. Thanks. Don
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spintight
46 posts
Feb 05, 2005
9:08 PM
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I know this stuff has been hashed many times but if you know that your birds are not pure rollers, like them Show Rollers, then you need to tell these guys.
Performance birds are not the same as show breeds.
The old show birds are big but these new show rollers are part modena or king I think?
How can they justify calling them a roller at all?
They should've never even allowed them to call these show rollers and simply MADE them call them something else?
There as you know is NO way that these show birds are down from flying rollers and these show guys have been trying to claim over ther years they are down from Pensoms stuff which is way out of line.
I heard that Pensom near the end feared that if he passed and a show roller guy in the PRC got ahold of his record book they would have all the records they could ever want to fabricate a huge cover up with these show rollers.
Guys need to be honest and tell anyone who wants or inquiries to buy "rollers" that they are not 100% roller and that several generations another breed was crossed in there.
This would save a lot of guys a LOT of pain and and wasted time.
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Phantom1
94 posts
Feb 06, 2005
7:55 AM
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Spin - I used to be a competitive breeder and exhibitor of Show Rollers. I was lucky if one of these birds could get off the grond and fly up to a perch. Someone purchasing a true Show Roller - with the hopes to fly it - would have to use some common sense. It would be like me buying some Modenas to fly on my race team. It just wouldn't be a logical decision.
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