Siddiqir
170 posts
Feb 04, 2005
10:13 AM
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Very interesting and must read article on Rollers Stain
Put your comments. I am surprise to read how rollers got crossed with Tippler and Asiatic (Orental) Rollers in 1800's.
Thanks, -Rauf
Last Edited by Siddiqir on Feb 07, 2005 5:14 PM
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nicksiders
98 posts
Feb 13, 2005
12:02 AM
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Very interesting...............I am always awstruck by the deep role (tight and controled, of course)over all the other aspects. That is probably because I am old and the first rollers I saw and had were more like individual performers that were very deep spinners and not the tight kitting and short spin drops of the current desirable birds.
If you get too many real deep rollers they roll less oftem per time spread and have a harder time keeping kitted. We would have never kept a 10 or 15 foot spinner, but they are common and desired now.
I don't know what is best for the bread and I will not argue over it, but for myself I still like the deeper roll above all else.
Last Edited by nicksiders on Feb 13, 2005 12:04 AM
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Mother lode lofts
495 posts
Feb 13, 2005
7:19 AM
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Nick who desires 10 - 15 footers ? I don't know of anyone that desires a ten ft bird. Personally I find them pretty boreing and sure don't beed for them or fly them in the team,unless Iam really scraping the bottom of the barrel plus in a good team they will cause your deeper birds to hold back and roll shorter
Just my opinion
Last Edited by Mother lode lofts on Feb 13, 2005 11:19 AM
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Siddiqir
185 posts
Feb 13, 2005
3:00 PM
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I prefer deep rollers and personally do not care if they are stiff. I think frequency is inversely proportion to depth and since for competition frequency is very important we are sadly moving away from deep rollers.
Short & frequent rollers are every where which do not give any pleasure watching and kitting would not be blame for it. To get more frequency we are staying away from deep rollers and it is now very difficult to find deep rollers for example "The Fireballs" in this world class competition era.
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Mother lode lofts
498 posts
Feb 13, 2005
3:51 PM
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Rauf I don't know of anyone not trying to breed "Good" deep birds, I think that "good" being the key word here. The biggest problem with deep birds is getting good ones that can hold up and do it right. I see a lot of deep birds out there, the problem is to many of them are culls. There are good one's out there also though, just in smaller numbers, the reason being obvious. Frequency is a funny thing, to much is not a good thing as the birds don't want to setup and you loose both qaulity and depth. Stiffs suck also for me as the last thing that I want to see is a kit of birds flying like Homers. Somewhere in the middle is where we want to be with just enough frequency for the birds to setup for qaulity and depth and yet aren't flying around in circles like Homers. A good team should easily have the juice to go once a minute with qaulity and depth.
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Mount Airy Lofts
47 posts
Feb 15, 2005
10:37 PM
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I personally don't like short performers myself. Who does? The goal is to get them as deep as possible and stable as a rock. Kitting is equally important. No one wants to fly tumblers!
I have had birds rolling fast in the 40-80 feet range but couldn't kit for s-h-i-*
Most of the deep birds I have bred are way to frequent and would bust one as they join the kit. Once they do, they seem to be lost and fly all over the sky trying to regain their senses. The rest seem to lack quality in the roll or are Mad bumpers, Wing switchers etc... Altho I have laid out a breeding plan to get what I am looking for and hope to accomplish it in acouple of years... Line breeding!
I know there are deep birds out there who can do the job. I have seen a few. I can attest to one that was just a overall dandy bred by a buddy of mine. This bird would fliip over - 5 footer while hovering low, 10-20 footers while flying in the 50 feet and bust it's butt in the 100 plus foot range while up high (200 plus feet). I remember on one of my visits (to my buddy's place) when this bird and another bird started flying behind the kit and started rolling against one another. It's rival was one of the best bird in the kit that I had bred for him the year before. Anywho, the rival would spin of a 20 footer. The champion would do one too. Then the rival would go again in the 20 foot range. The Champion would rip a 40 foot one. This went on for a couple of mins until all you saw was 100 footers done by the Champion. The rival just called it quits because all it could do was 20 footers and rejoined the kit. After the Champion joined the kit, man it was on. One of the best shows I have ever witnessed in my whole time of visiting other peoples lofts. This bird had to have done atleast 7 back to back 100 foot rolls during this flight. Everytime, rejoining the kit right away. I watched this bird over a summers period and saw it perform 100 footers withoud breaking a sweat. This bird was bred off of some second generaton Plona stuff and didn't perform until it was well over 16 months old. Can you believe my buddy was going to 'cull' it at 8 months old because it hadn't even flipped over once - lucky for it, it had remarkable type and was just a dandy on the ground so I told my buddy to fly it out. He evently did but gave it to his little brother. Boy did he ever regret it 8 months later. And to date, I have never seen such a stable - deep - quality roller in my life.
To what I have bred and to what I saw at my buddy's place of that Champion, if you want deep, stable, rollers... they have to be late developers. All my deep ones would come in before 6 months. It can be done. It just takes patience and constant culling until you find that gem.
Thor
P.S. Don't people breed alot of Roll downs from the Fireball strain?
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Fonzy
6 posts
Feb 17, 2005
5:44 AM
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What ive experienced with some of my deep birds is when coming fully in to the roll they wont kit at all. this might take 2 months of them not kitting and flying every where. As long as they are stable and not rolling down or bumping i will show patience towards them. The depth usually decreases in that time and the bird learns how to handle it.
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Mother lode lofts
505 posts
Feb 17, 2005
6:34 AM
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Fonzy that is generally what I see here also, they will kit but it wil be kinda in and out, but there may be a period of avoiding it also. The very deep ones are flown in secondary kits until the get a handle on it. Here such birds are usually also dangerous coming down , they either get a handle on it or kill themselfs coming in. Generally here such birds tend to shorten up to 30 - 40 once they mature with the roll (as long as they live through it), the speed and qaulity allways picks up once they hit this stage also and once they get a handle on it they can be real hotshots in the team. I consider these birds running the edge a little to close as I can get birds giving me the same thing without the problems. They just don't have to go through the "getting a handle on it" phase, or at least not to that extream.
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