rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
246 posts
Mar 27, 2005
9:40 AM
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Hello, I recently started breeding my Fireballs I received from Chris Johnson (Bullfrog). I hope to put a 10-12 bird kit up by late summer. I will be using the same breeding methods to build my own strain of Fireballs that I used for my Ruby Rollers.
Right now I have 2 pairs breeding and will be putting some more together in the next few weeks. I will be creating a Fireball Photo Gallery to display what I have to start with and what I am producing.
I read that true Fireballs have either pearl color or bulleyes. Most of mine do, but some have an orangish and yellow color as well. Anyone have any information they can add on eye color? FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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BULLFROG
72 posts
Mar 28, 2005
6:01 AM
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hey tony nice looking birds on the home page you know where i can get some like that?? lol. is that pair already laying?? remember in cntrast with your rubys these birds take a long time to develop the roll but even the tail glides are nice when they are young. just keep a E.M.T. handy when they break hard for the first time. lol chris
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
249 posts
Mar 29, 2005
7:02 AM
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Hey Chris, thanks for the birds, I really like those grizzles, very striking! The whole lot reminds me of the birds I bought as a kid from a man named Travis. I swear they take me back to my youth! LOL
I did put a couple pairs together and will put some more in a week or two as my Rubys complete a couple settings.
I plan to use the 5 Primary Traits as my model for developing this line of Fireballs. I hope to go as deep as possible with them and shorten them up at the point where I see velocity begin to diminish and work on them to pull out clean.
As far as that EMT, these birds are out of luck if they bounce. Anything beyond a mere accident will be culled. This is a project that could take a few years to get what I am looking for out of them. We'll see though.
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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BULLFROG
76 posts
Mar 30, 2005
5:40 PM
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tony i ment a E.M.T. for you !!! when those birds begin to break after all the time of just slop it is a heart stopping sight and the desire to grab a net and catch them is huge :) chris
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bantieman
6 posts
Mar 30, 2005
7:42 PM
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How long does it take the average bird out of this family to take on the roll?
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BULLFROG
77 posts
Mar 31, 2005
6:25 AM
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i have seen fireballs come in at 8 months but i have seen some that at a year were just starting to show any inclination to roll. many will do long tail glides and short loose spins when young but the deep breaks are a long wait. chris
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BULLFROG
83 posts
Apr 05, 2005
6:21 PM
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for the gentelman that asked me for it my email is cbullfrog69@aol.com thanks chris
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
253 posts
Apr 05, 2005
10:37 PM
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Hey Chris, I'll look forward to seeing some very deep rollers from this group of Fireballs. Got a couple pair going now and some eggs. I kinda already picked my favorites from the bunch and will focus on them. I like their type and expression. Well see what they can produce.
Should I have my wife learn CPR to save the EMT's a trip? hehehehe Tony
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BULLFROG
84 posts
Apr 06, 2005
2:54 PM
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hi tony the cpr thing might not be a bad idea. good luck on the breeding i know they are prolific breeders. chris
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Alan Bliven
99 posts
Apr 08, 2005
10:01 PM
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I see another guy has Fireballs. He's at
http://www.slobberknockerlofts.com/outhouse_lofts/
Does anyone here know about his Fireballs?
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Alan
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Alan Bliven
100 posts
Apr 08, 2005
10:26 PM
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What's the main differences between the Fireball and the Pensom rollers?
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Alan
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BULLFROG
86 posts
Apr 09, 2005
8:55 AM
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the three magor diffrences between the two strains are size - the fireballs are a bigger bird, kitting, the fireballs dont kit near as tight as the pensoms, and the roll is much deeper than most (not all strains) pensoms as well as not as tight.
the fireball strain was named as such because of a foundation cock bird named fireball. the funny thing is that the origional cock was lost and the strain was built from a son of fireball :) chris
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Alan Bliven
101 posts
Apr 09, 2005
11:55 AM
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Does the Fireball have other breeds added in along the line like the American Roller and the North American Highflying Roller? Or is it a straight Birmingham? For that matter, is it the same breed as the North American Highflying Roller?
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Alan
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BULLFROG
87 posts
Apr 09, 2005
8:00 PM
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to the best of my knowledge the true fireballs were breed from whittinghams an english birmingham roller imported by mcavee. my info on this is scetchy as the memory of my source is failing but i hope to continue my conversations about the line and will post all usefull info i come across. thanks chris
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Alan Bliven
102 posts
Apr 09, 2005
10:30 PM
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Here's some info I found on this site: http://www.roller-pigeon.com/articles/article/862632/7196.htm
JAMES E. GRAHAM; Kirkland Lake, Ontario, Canada (? -1982)
As we already know, the Rev. James E. Graham was a student of J.V. McAree of Toronto, Canada. In 1916, Graham
purchased some Whittinghams from McAree. For nearly 60 years, Graham maintained a pure family of Whittinghams.
In 1931, Graham published "Acrobats of the Air". It was the first book upon Rollers written by a North American fancier, but since Graham had only had Rollers for 15 years and considered himself still a novice; he enlisted the aid of not only McAree, but also E.R.B. Chapman of MA, Ray E. Gilbert of Salt Lake City, UT, and Ken L. Payne and Wm. H. Pensom both of Birmingham, England.
The book was an instant success, and Graham became rather famous. Within the book's pages was a striking photo of a fabulous Red Brooch cock with jet black eyes that had established himself as a favorite in Graham's loft.
Graham chose the name "FIREBALL" to add a flavorful touch. Inquiries from everywhere poured in about the bird, including one offer for $50, an unheard of figure in those days. Of course, he was not for sale, but Graham sold many of his young and other birds. From then on, the entire strain was known as "The Fireballs".
The first Fireballs sent to the U.S. were sent to a teen aged fancier named Tom Butler, by way of train in early 1932. Incidentally, I spoke to Mr. Butler during the summer of 1992. He was residing in Deer, AR and still had some Fireballs.
It was an interesting conversation that I will always remember. I am sorry to report that I was informed that Mr. Butler passed away on Sept. 29th, 1992.
By 1940, the Fireball strain became so widespread that the Fireball Roller Club was formed. Among its charter members were Dr. C.A. Nordland of Portland, OR and Samuel Saunders of Maine. Both became the club's workhorses and each held several terms in the office of President.
Graham was often fond of saying that his entire strain descended from "The Fireball", while this is true; "the Fireball" was not the foundation pigeon. 1933, found Graham relocating to Northern Ontario. Since he had just moved and it was winter, Graham housed his birds temporarily in a small woodshed.
Upon the second day, "Fireball" escaped; he took several rolls and was never seen again. A blizzard struck only hours later, and temperatures plummeted far below zero. Fireball no doubt perished. Graham did have one son of "Fireball", a Red Beard; and it was this bird that founded the entire strain.
In 1956, Graham moved next door to McAree, and purchased all of his birds. They were kept in McAree's barn. Graham then selected his ten best pair, and McAree's ten best pair as breeding stock. The rest of all the birds he sold off. Upon McAree's death that same year, 1956; Graham again relocated this time to Wisconsin where he stayed until 1972.
At this point, all the birds were sold and Graham moved to retire in Bradenton, Florida in 1980, Graham released the 3rd revision of "Acrobats of the Air" which was anything but successful. 1981 finds the Fireball Roller Club bankrupt due to its Sec/Treas. having stolen the funds and leaving for parts still unknown with a woman other than his wife. Here ends a major chapter in North American Roller history.
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Alan
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
263 posts
Apr 10, 2005
7:41 AM
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Hello Chris, I will have 8 of the Rubys for you in about a week to 2 weeks, I have a couple small orders to fill and you will have the rest in early about 2 to 3 weeks after that.
As I said in another post, I have 2 pair of Fireballs going and will be putting another pair together this afternoon. Of the 2 pairs together, 1 laid about a week ago and the other ( a pair of grizzles) not as of yet, the hen likes to set in the nest bowl though and protects it but no eggs.
Anyone have any suggestions to get them more active? I have not seen the cock driving her as I guess he’s fine with things as long as she is in the nest bowl? Lol Both are in good health otherwise. FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
264 posts
Apr 10, 2005
7:49 AM
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Hello Alan, slobberknocker has some nice looking birds from the pictures he posts on his site and I have heard others remark that he is real helpful with information. I have heard nothing negative except by those who don’t like other guys selling rollers. But my bell gets rung by some of those guys too. LOL
I am taking reservations/orders for young bird Fireballs as well as the Rubys, so if you wanted to order, now is a good time as I don’t have them up on my shopping cart yet. Once I arrive at the new location, I will have about 5 to 8 pairs working. I will be keeping some and letting some go. If you want some let me know.
Email me: Order Fireballs
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Last Edited by rollerpigeon on Apr 10, 2005 7:51 AM
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
14 posts
Apr 10, 2005
12:09 PM
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Tony.When I get a hen that wants to sit and not lay any eggs I will make her raise a round from another pair.This usually will get them going.Changing lofts I have seen is usually the most problem when this happens.They just don,t seem comfortable to lay in the new loft.Sometimes they will leave the eggs before they hatch so don,t put your best eggs under her to start with.And then the dreaded thing; sometimes they never will lay.David
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Alohazona
2 posts
Apr 10, 2005
3:49 PM
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Hello Tony,like David said,a new setting might make the hen a little insecure,they should get over this soon.I have had this problem with my parlor rollers,as they are not prolific breeders to begin with,more often than not you will get productive pairs,but sometimes you will get a pair that your lucky if they 3or 4 eggs in a breeding season.Somethings I have tried in the past that worked sucessfully is,if there is only a nest bowl in the corner of the breeding pen,build a surround or an actual nest box that will fit in thru the breeding pen door,and big enough to set the nest bowl into it,if theres enough room around the side of the interior for the nestbowl and the mate or a squeaker the better,but small,cozy and secure is the key.Also with the grit you provide a little calcimineral sprinkled on the grit insures egg forming vitamins are provided,they will take what they need,I also put a couple of drops of aniseseed extract on the grit,to send them running forit,and last provide a supply of nest building material in the pen for activity.
There are health problems that keep a pigeon from laying but these tend to be rare and I'm sure the hen will come around.Hope this helps,ALOHA,Todd
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Alan Bliven
103 posts
Apr 12, 2005
9:27 PM
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Are any of you Fireballers flying them right now?
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Alan
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Alan Bliven
104 posts
Apr 13, 2005
8:20 PM
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The website that's offering the Fireballs isn't Bob the owner of Slobberknocker Lofts. Bob sponsers the site. The guy's name is Phil Schultz from WI (Outhouse Lofts). The site is here: http://www.slobberknockerlofts.com/outhouse_lofts/
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Alan
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
265 posts
Apr 16, 2005
1:08 PM
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Hey David, I will give your suggestion a try. This particular pair seems on the nervous side and doesn’t like to be handled. When I look at them they have that look that says I DARE you to catch me. Lol I’ll just wait some more and see what happens.
Hey Todd, yes, it is just a nest bowl in the corner of the compartment. I could place a small piece of wood next to it so as to box it in. This should make it more cozy I would think…good suggestion, I will try it. I will also put in some pine needles, so they can go through the nest building process, I use wood shavings normally.
As far as grit, I provide both the red type and the oyster shell. They take to both equally well. As far as health, they both look in excellent health, although the hen will present you with a huge dump. I know setting hens will do this. Like David said, maybe placing some eggs under her will jump start her.
Alan, I am not flying as I just got mine and will be using this group to breed only. I will fly out the youngsters. Those Fireballs sure look nice on that website. They sure look different than my Ruby Rollers. FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
908 posts
Dec 08, 2006
6:00 AM
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Tony.How is your Fireballs coming along.Do you still have them.I am working with a few pair and was wondering how yours turned out? David
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parlorfancier916
179 posts
Dec 08, 2006
8:39 PM
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so are fireball rollers a breed to or a standard? haha, Fireball rollers are pretty amazing, but to risky to fly, can you guys give me more details on breeding these suckers? Its pretty hard for me now a days to breed out a fireball that doesn't end up killing itself or worse crippled.
Last Edited by on Dec 08, 2006 8:43 PM
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
910 posts
Dec 09, 2006
4:39 AM
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Can't help you much there Parlor. I am just getting back into them myself finally.Had 2 cocks but could never find any hens for them but finally did and was able to locate a few more from a different family.Hopefully these 2 familys do good together.
They were pretty common here back in the 50's and 60's but not anymore.
How long have you had yours and where did you get them?Chances are they are from the same family I just got mine from.Not many of them around anymore that I can find. David
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
909 posts
Dec 09, 2006
7:37 AM
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Hey David, I have gotten out of the Fireballs as a part of my business. Most went to some good people. I did keep a couple to use as fosters. I also kept 2 that flew in my Fall Fly team. A dark check and recessive red cock (nestmates).
These two are very VERY good rollers and kit birds! I will breed them later just for the fun and see how they stack up against my Rubys.
The Fall Fly judge wanted to see the red one. I thought that was cool.
Mostly what I got was very deep and a few bounced. Tend to be larger birds. I love the grizzles and torts, very beautiful birds.
Did you get some from Chris Johnson aka Bullfrog? I tried to email him recently but his email address was no good. I though he was ill last I heard. Know anything?
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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parlorfancier916
181 posts
Dec 09, 2006
5:45 PM
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I got them from my brother's friend, Lee Vong Lor from Merced C.A.
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