siddiqir
2 posts
May 09, 2005
12:59 PM
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Which breeding method produce high % of culls?
In, Line, Outcross
Or
Breed for Colors
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
195 posts
May 09, 2005
3:42 PM
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Sid.Inbreeding is the quickest way to bring out any faults in whatever you are breeding so I would say inbreeding produces a higher percentage of culls for awhile.But inbreeding is just a tool and you have to be careful even with it or you can go to far.
Linebreeding etc is also a tool and you have to learn when and what works best with the family you are working with.If your family has a high percentage of culls to start with you will have a high percentage of culls no matter what you do untill you get to where you can work all the methods of Inbreeding,Linebreeding etc. I have been Inbreeding & Linebreeding dogs for 55+ years.I find Rollers a bit harder to work with.Maybe because of the way they are genetically made.I don't know.My opinion.David
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nicksiders
109 posts
May 09, 2005
6:23 PM
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Sister to brother has been the worst breeding results for me. They have too much of the same in thier genes causing more often the worse of traits. Daughter to father; son to mother seems to have been most sucessfull line.
I am sure everyone will have different opinions and results.
I have heard that half brother to half sister has worked positively. I would just listen to your responses and see what is the majority of the information and go for it.
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Alohazona
7 posts
May 10, 2005
12:39 AM
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Sid,I bred rollers in all the ways you mentioned,and without a dought ,for me,breeding for color tops the list for culls ,by a longshot.If you think about it your breeding for colors of feathers and tip toeing around lethal genes,etc,a cull is a non-performer,and putting birds together strictly because of feather color,has given me the highest % of junk.Backing up on that alittle, color balancing has served me well,but is not a forsure.Inbreeding half brother/half sister,nephew/aunt,full brother/sister,have been excellent,I have not done father/dau.or mother/son but will be trying it this breeding season.I have also outcrossed deep performers into shorter more frequent performers with mixed but favorable result,a few culls[start out hot but become flyers after a couple bumps].Sid,if you dont try it,you'll never know what works,one thing I know for sure each year I see improvement,and my selection more intense.Linebreeding is a good tool,to bring in what you need,within the same basic family of birds that are distantly related,without mixing up the genepool to much.Still learning and figuring this all out,trying to come up with the right combination's.I've ordered Tony's book,just waiting for it to arrive.ALOHA,Todd
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
197 posts
May 10, 2005
3:08 AM
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Good Post Todd.If you ever get it all figured out let me know.LOL.
Get started on that father/daughter & mother/son matings.I have yet to do any good with Bro/Sister matings in rollers.The gene pool is just to big in rollers I think.It sure is a lot of fun trying tho.LOL.David
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highroller
3 posts
May 10, 2005
4:56 AM
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I'm hoping the mother/son and father/daughter matings pan out for me this year. I have a pair who gave me a great spinning son and daughter some years ago and I mated this son/daughter together for a few seassons and got so-so results, nothing quite as good as themselves in the air. This year I put the father and daughter together and the son and mother together. My only problem is all of the young look so much alike, it will be hard telling who is who in the air. I'll have to mark them somehow or fly only certain ones at a time. Never a dull moment!
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
290 posts
May 13, 2005
7:53 AM
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Hello Sid, breeding in general is going to produce culls. The quantity of culls depends on how high the standards of the fancier and what the goals of the breeding program are.
In producing my family of Rubys, (I did line-breeding and in-breeding) I had more culls in the beginning years as I narrowed my focus on the best birds and their offspring.
Now I have fewer culls than ever as I see more birds exhibiting the traits I am looking for: Roll-Velocity-Depth-Control and Type.
If I were to now begin breeding them for some specific color, I would have a lot of culls as I began selecting my breeders in this direction. After a few generations, I would have fewer and fewer.
If I add an outcross, I run the risk that this bird would have a negative impact on 1 or more of the 5 Primary Traits that I look for. In this case, they would ALL be culls. If a successful outcross is introduced then I might get an improvement in 1 or more traits that I look for and have fewer culls.
As a rule of thumb, you will have more culls in the beginning of a breeding program and fewer over time until new goals and or standards are introduced.
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
293 posts
May 13, 2005
8:30 AM
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BTW, if you start with the wrong birds, they are ALL culls! LOL FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Rick Mee
21 posts
May 17, 2005
7:22 PM
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Rauf, the breeding method I know of that produces the highest number of culls, is the (don't fly out all of the breeders) and (pedigree) breeding method. If you want good birds, just fly out all of your young that your produce, only selecting the very best to put back in to the breeding program. Breeding from a roller for any other reason than what it did in the air, well lets just say that is a step backward. Rick
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Alan Bliven
144 posts
May 18, 2005
9:06 PM
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Rick,
Thanks for that! I'm so glad to hear a voice of reason and common sense.
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Alan
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spade_drain
12 posts
Jul 20, 2005
10:03 PM
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yea ....sorrie but im a beginner wats do u mean when u say "culls" no idea...sorriee plz dont think im dumb..
jef
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bluebar
4 posts
Jul 21, 2005
12:29 AM
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Cull simply means to "select". As used by most pigeon breeders, it means those birds that are NOT going to be used in their breeding program or maybe not in their loft at all. It doesn't always designate a bird to be killed, though most of us do tend to use it that way.
For example: I could cull out 15 birds from my loft because they don't fit into my breeding program for next year. The reasons may vary. Let's say eight of them might just be bad birds; non-flyers, bad body proportions; too wild (That's a REAL no-no for me personally); born with half a rump and only 8 tail feathers (I actually had one like that years ago) or they may simply be no good at all in the air or not at all representative of the breed (whatever breed we're talking about). These are birds that I'd humanely destroy since I consider them of no use to anyone and to sell or give birds like this away would be an actual disservice to someone.
On the other hand, maybe seven of the birds I'm culling out might have been good enough even for me to breed from two years ago. In fact, they might be of such quality that I'd have cheerfully paid $50 or $100 bucks for them nine years ago. They might even be the parents or siblings of some of the stuff I'm keeping.
Assume, I had birds two years ago that performed like these do now but since then I've managed to improve my performances overall - that could be my show, flying, whatever. Whatever your criterion for having birds in your loft is. These birds though are now not as good as I want today. I'd want them to go rather than have them bring my present loft quality down. Still, these might be outstandingly good pigeons. They could even be of much higher quality than many other breeders/flyers have. These birds would be up for sale or for giving away as gifts to people I liked.
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
370 posts
Jul 21, 2005
2:48 AM
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Frank.Thanks for clearing up what a Cull is.So many times some think that what we call a Cull is a bird that is killed.Sometimes what one culls will help someone else along in their breeding program.
Tony.I would like to see somewhere on your site a list of Roller Words and their meanings.Such as Cull,Wingswitching,etc.etc.
I have a list in my book with a bunch of them that I copied from somewhere.Maybe it was even Franks(bluebar)website.LOL.
Anyway it would be nice for many newcomers to look up a word when the ones of us that uses words that are everyday common to us.Just a suggestion. David
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spade_drain
13 posts
Jul 21, 2005
3:27 PM
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yea got it....thanx
jef
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spinnerpigeon
32 posts
Jul 21, 2005
3:35 PM
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David,
That is a good idea, Tony, do you think you could make something like this?
Thanks,
Caleb
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big al
59 posts
Jul 21, 2005
9:03 PM
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Bluebar, Great post on culls!!
David, great suggestions regarding terms and definitions!
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Big Al
"High Plains Spinner Loft"
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