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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
Why not fly ?
Why not fly ?
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George Ruiz
30 posts
Jun 06, 2005
3:28 PM
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Im just curious as to why guys that think they got good rollers dont ever fly in any competitions and let the roller world see how good the birds and thier training are.
If someone claims they breed for perfomance then why not "PUT THEM UP"
Its like building a house and not letting anyone live in it or like building a race car and letting it sit in the garage.or breeding a racehorse and sending it to the pasture instead of the racetrack.
Maybe someone can help me understand
Last Edited by George Ruiz on Jun 06, 2005 3:37 PM
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Alan Bliven
169 posts
Jun 06, 2005
4:41 PM
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Maybe some are hermits?
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Alan
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spinnerpigeon
13 posts
Jun 06, 2005
4:57 PM
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George,
I think that some people just like to enjoy this hobby from their own backyards.They like to just keep the birds from a hobby stand point.And you have some that make it their life goal to win the W/C.I personally dont think that either way is wrong.Its just a matter of personal preference.
As for myself I might compete someday, but for now I am just going to enjoy the birds in my backyard. Just my 2 cents.
Caleb
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Velo99
7 posts
Jun 06, 2005
6:02 PM
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The reason I keep pigeons is;I like birds.
These birds will fly their guts out for me. Likewise I would do anything for my birds. I choose to compete for more than one reason. If I am to spend all of this time keeping records,breeding,building,and balancing my kit, I feel I should at LEAST be up to the breed standard. I don`t want to win the w/c (yeah right), I just want to be running on all 8 cylinders. With the help of the NBRC and its judges, I can make it happen.
The other reason I choose to compete is the comraderie of this elite group,these rollermen, some of who are dedicated enough to the sport to give large chunks of their lives to keep a finger on the pulse of the breed. This is the reason I would compete. To be one of these elite men,dedicated to the breed as well as my friends in the sport.
mtc/yits
v99
Last Edited by Velo99 on Jun 06, 2005 6:03 PM
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
233 posts
Jun 07, 2005
1:14 PM
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George.There is places that are just to far apart for fellows to compete.Here in my region it is common to be 100 miles from the next roller flyer.There is not enough flyers that compete to meet the 10 kit requirement to qualify.Then there is the cost of competing.Sometimes its just not worth the bother. David
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Mongrel Lofts
5 posts
Jun 07, 2005
2:03 PM
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Hi George,
There are a few fanciers who are so remotely placed that flying is almost impossible for them.. Few is the key word, the majority of guys who don't fly in Competition are excuse makers.. If they have a hang nail they can't fly a kit in comp.. You will usually hear these guys saying things like,, the judge won't give me a fair shake. Old so and so gets to fly early and I would have to fly 3 hours after he does, and it isn't fair! Hey, they give that guy 200 pts before he turns a kit up, I can't beat him..
Most non competitions flyers are whiners and excuse makers. Bottom Line.. Thats my opinion.. They don't put the work into the birds to fly good kits. They blame everyone and anything but them selves for their lack of effort.. usually, the non comp guys doesn't have the quality of birds in numbers because he is off chasing color or paper work and he just won't face the fact, this is not how you breed high quality rollers.. Not to mention, if they put the birds in the air to be judged, they can't bull shit people anymore about how much better their birds are because they are of certain color or off certain pedigreed birds.. Once you put a kit up for a crowd and the judge is putting them on the record,, all the BS is out the window..
You know, the old, I have pure Pensom birds,, they have the real quality spin, not this competition junk you see today. Thats easy to say, but then when a comp guy flys a bunch of good rollers and you fly a bunch of rags or stiffs,. People know you are full of shit, and your BS is dried up under the bright light of truth.. So most like to get on these list, talk about how good their birds are, and how they can fly a kit of yellows as good as the best out there.. Talk is cheap!!! Being a back yard flyer who talks about flying the great ones, rather than putting the great ones up on fly day to be judged and recorded, Is the cowards way out in most, not all cases George.. Just my opinion.. Mongrel
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
234 posts
Jun 07, 2005
3:19 PM
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KGB.It would be nice if NBRC would lower the 10 kit minimum before they could qualify a region.Especially here in the East.I see they changed the rules for flying.If it was lower maybe some of us could fly.LOL.
How is your birds looking for this year? David
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justjunk
1 post
Jun 07, 2005
6:25 PM
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I don't normally say much about comments made on websites
but the statement made about most people who do not compete
in the big ones are just cowards or BS artist is not always the fact. I have had rollers now for about 25 years. Have never claimed to have the best around. But myself and a number of others in the state of Florida do compete. Why because we enjoy it. Yea we all want to see how good our birds are stacked up to each other and want to win, but the main reason we get together and compete is the fellowship. Before some says "yea you guys don't want to play with the big boys", here is a taste of our fly rules. Locally we fly 12 birds. No out bird is allowed. There is no mutiplers. If the birds do not roll 15 feet or better they do not get scored. Rolling means just that, no plate rolling, wing switching or fipping and flapping. The quality and style must be there. If you score 100 hundred points your birds have done something that day. Yea, we compete hard against each other but we enjoy it. When asked, "How are your birds going to do" I say don't know but I am going to have a good time no matter what. When asked how is your birds doing, I say they are just junk but I have won my fair share of flys down here. We do have state flys and most of us have competed with the other South Eastern states.
To make a blanket statement that we are all cowards and BS artist is incorrect and BS.
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birdman
19 posts
Jun 07, 2005
7:02 PM
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I've found that the people who make such comments need to feel that they are a cut above the rest and it seems to elevate them when they can be-little others.
Mongrel, if it will make you feel good about yourself then I think that you are the best and smartest roller guy I've ever heard of! Man, I know that your legacy will live on for decades after you're gone. And thank GOD that you are smart enough to divide roller keepers into two camps. What would the hobby be without you?
Maybe all the cowards, whiners, and excuse makers should cancell their NBRC memberships?
George, not all roller keepers are competition driven. If they want to compete they will. If that doesn't interest them they wont.
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Jimmy
2 posts
Jun 07, 2005
7:44 PM
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Birdman - Good post.
I fly everyday and anybody can drop by and watch them. I don't compete because that requires me to be somewhere at some stated time on some stated day. I am not a coward and I don't whine that much. I enjoyed your sarcastic humor, but you got your point across as well.
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nicksiders
125 posts
Jun 07, 2005
8:07 PM
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There are those whose health doeas not allow them, but I know they have birds that are better than some who do compete...they are not shying away from those who do compete as any one of them can drop by his home to watch his birds fly. There are others who have never had a drive to compete and it was not thier intention to compete, but who do have some darn fine rollers and should brag about them.
I also know there are people competing who are flying junk and I hear them whine about the judge; about the weather; about the hawks; the time of the day they had to fly; on and on.
There was a time when there was really no competition. How often did Bill Pensom compete? The rollers he put in the air are legendary. Many others had rollors that breeders today still talk about that did not compete.
Not everybody is positive about the competition we have today is rally that benefitual to the breed; in fact may be having a negetive affect on the breed..........I don't know because I have never been that smart (I was a jock at a state university LOL), but many smarter then myself are throwing out some sincere questions about what our kind of competition may be doing to the breed AND THE HOBBY.
I guess we will find out one of these days.
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motherlodelofts
45 posts
Jun 07, 2005
8:55 PM
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ALL good posts !!!! True not all are going to have the drive to compete , and certainly not all that compete have good birds or even know what a truelly good bird is, but if they expect to go anywhere they better learn but not all can take the truth.
Why has competition been such a good thing for the breed ? Because it is all about pure performance, absoulutly nothing else can play in if you expect to climb towards the top, no shows, no color breeding,no pedigree breeding, it is strickly about putting the birds in the air and nothing else, if you find that your birds can't cut the mustard then you either find some birds that can or just stay home.
As for local competition, I want it to be fun, too serious of competition can take the fun out of it over time, The major flys for me is when it is time to get serious.
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Jun 07, 2005 10:34 PM
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motherlodelofts
46 posts
Jun 07, 2005
9:07 PM
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Birdman when it comes to these birds ,trust me when I tell you that he is far more than a cut above all of us here , and there is a whole lot of truth to his post. Just a fact buddy
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Jun 07, 2005 9:31 PM
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J_Star
7 posts
Jun 08, 2005
5:10 AM
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Scott & Ken
Maybe there is some truth to the comments Ken made in reference to the people that you guys deal with in and around competition or the Net. I know that Ken was commenting about the people who brag about their birds without any substantial evidence that they are as good birds as the best around. But Ken, you grouped all the people who don’t compete in one area that I totally disagree with your remark. Taking a hard stand about every aspect in the rollers from none competition groups to color breading and everything in between will not win you allot of friends and will tarnish the perception that we all work hard on developing. Your remarks are not any different than the people who claim their birds are the best without proof. Your comments are just as bad.
I also think that people should, if they can, compete once or twice in the big league so that they can truly see where their birds fit in the scale from worst to excellent in regards to competition flying. This way they will strive on working to maximize the birds potential and develop the best of what they got.
Jay
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Mongrel Lofts
6 posts
Jun 08, 2005
1:15 PM
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Hi Jay,
I was trying not to lump all guys who don't fly in Competition together. That is why I said most. I figure those that have a legit reason like to far out, to old to fly rollers, or you pick your legit reason would not have a problem with my post.. Those guys that are the excuse makers, will whine like a baby cause truth cuts to the bone.. If you don't fly, because you think the comp birds are not of quality, or at least thats the excuse you have come up with. Then your full of it.. If you breed for Toy stencil and you think the judge won't judge your birds fairly, then thats your poor excuse and your full of it!!
If you say you just like to fly and relax with the birds,, fine but don't tell others how the comp guys don't fly high quality roll.. Flying competition is no different than what we do most days, fly kits of rollers. Just it gives a judge and a group of men a chance to evaluate the quality of what your flying. Flying comp, cutts out the loud mouth bragging and boasting.. It makes one have to put up the rollers. Not talk about how great a roller they put up.. I fear if some of the guys I read from on these list had to actually put up a good team of rollers or shut up, their heads would explode from trying to keep the BS in!!
So Bottom line Jay, from what I have seen.. Most guys not flying in the NBRC and WC flys, like to sit back and talk about how competition is ruining the breed and how they don't fly because of many excuses.. When in most cases the truth is, they like to talk, not fly real rollers..
Does that make me a hard nose? I don't think so. I think it makes me a realist. I hope those guys who set out the flys for some of these poor excuses but fly good rollers, will read this and want to kick my ass in the next NBRC fly or WC.. I know the sport and the flying men would welcome any and all to join in the fun of trying to fly great teams of rollers. We know how hard it is to fly great teams on fly day and anyone trying to get it done and willing to put them up, gets our respect. Talkers don't..
Jay, I have just heard and read to much BS from back yard roller breeders to believe a word of it.. If you want to run down the competition's and tell people about how you fly the real deal not comp tumblers that score.. Fly them in the big flys, show us those 1.8 to 2.0 multipliers for blur spinners.. I dare the talkers to jump in the ring and expose the competition guys lack of quality by showing us they have faster rollers.. Jay, they don't! The best rollers, for quality, style, speed, velocity, depth, breaking in numbers, kiting and all the rest, will always be found in the guys lofts that fly competition.. They work hard at it and they know they are going to be flying for the record and for the sport to see.. They put kits of rollers up for the world to judge. They have earned respect from their peers by putting them up. The talkers, they want the respect of the flyers without flying. Its like wanting the respect of a fireman, without fighting fires. its not going to happen. LOL
Jay, in the fly guy world, a roller man earns respect by flying good rollers and having the balls to put them up, good or bad for the sport to judge..
We tend to look down our noses at those who don't compete but like to flap their gums about how good their rollers are and how they fly quality rollers not comp rollers. The time for big talk about pedigrees and how many champions are in the back ground have long gone.. In 2005, you either fly good rollers and we all know it, or you breed for pedigrees and colored birds and we all know that also.. You can breed either of these and still be a fly guy. You know what separates a gum flapping know it all ped or colored breeder from a ped fly guy, or a colored fly guy? Yep, sure enough you guessed it, Does he fly the rollers in competition and compare his rollers to the best in the world..
If he does this, he is a fly guy and he earns our respect. If he sets back and talks crap and doesn't fly competition to show us he has quality rollers. He don't have anything coming.. Talk is cheap, anyone can talk about flying hard balls with small holes in the side rollers.. None I have met can. Can they do it when the judge is under them and the yard is full of roller men? Of course not, thats why they don't fly competition..Cold hard facts.. Mongrel
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Velo99
9 posts
Jun 08, 2005
5:50 PM
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I see the flys as an opportunity to have your kit rated by the judge of the standard established by the organizing body of the fly. This is what we can see in a tangible light. Real numbers and judges comments.
Rather that a put up or shut up that some believe is the point of the thread,it is more akin the NFL axiom "On Any Given Sunday".
I have hear from way too many flyers that weather is the major factor in the results of the fly. It is 2/3 luck and 1/3 preparation. I was talking to a flyer. He told me he won a regional fly with 63 or so points due to declining weather conditions. It is not always the best kit that wins just the luckiest.
In closing I would like to add that these guys who do not compete in the major flys,but on a local level are still worthy of being"fly guys". We are the rollermen looking to improve the breed by adhering to the breed standard no matter who judges.
mtc/yits
v99
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motherlodelofts
52 posts
Jun 08, 2005
6:30 PM
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Luck no doubt plays in , but a good flyer can also do a lot to make his own luck.
A junk or medioce kit won't make it to the top final wise no matter how lucky they are
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fhtfire
146 posts
Jun 08, 2005
7:59 PM
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I myself do not think that backyard fliers have crap and only the ones that compete have the good birds. I have seen some bad kits that compete and I have seen some good kits that do not compete. I just think that competing lets you see some other birds...and lets you have the oppurtunity so see a Champion bird with your own eyes. It also lets you learn a few new things...Things are changing all the time. IF you do not get out of your back yard, you have nothing to compare to. It is true that you could have the best kit in the world and on fly day...it may suck....A lot is luck a lot is having the moons all lined up! Or you could screw your kit up by making a mistake...ask Scott...he has some of the best birds that I have seen and he DQ on W/C day. SHit just happens...Look at Rick Mee...He quit competing for years...does that mean that his birds all of a sudden suck....nope...Competing just bring out the competitive spirits and help you strive to be better...or breed better. If you do not compete...you could still have good birds..I myself think that new fanciers should compete just to have the old salty dogs come to your house and give you some pointers...and let you know what birds that you have are the good ones or bad ones....Just my two cents...it DOES NOT MAKE A DIFFERENCE if you compete or do not compete...but if you compete...it does help earn some respect....but respect does not mean your birds are good
rock and ROLL
Paul Fullerton
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