Richard A.
19 posts
Jun 21, 2005
9:49 PM
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Have you tried creating yellows??
I started doing it and it has been real time consuming.
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
307 posts
Jun 22, 2005
3:43 AM
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Richard.Most everything in rollers is time consuming.LOL.There is some shortcuts to making Yellow but they will fall apart on you.
I find it best to breed from a cock carrying dilute to get good strong young. Its a longer process but you maintain the roll better.David
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Slobberknocker
14 posts
Jun 22, 2005
6:21 PM
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Richard,
Making Yellows in itself, whether Recessive Yellow or Ash Yellow, is not too time consuming. What does take time is getting them to the quality you want. A good understanding of how Dilute (Yellow) works genetically will save you a lot of time and work in the long run.
Bob
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www.slobberknockerlofts.com
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Velo99
20 posts
Jun 22, 2005
7:31 PM
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I have a color question. How does a red check w/f cock, and a rec red w/f hen make a blue bar chick? They lost me on that one.
(:
v99
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Richard A.
20 posts
Jun 22, 2005
8:54 PM
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V99, what does w/f mean?
Bob, what I've done so far is:
I had a Dilute Almond and I mated him to a red hen which produced a Red badge cock that carried dilute. Then I used that cock on a red hen which produced yellow hens. Now I have (3) different Red cocks that are carrying dilute, so I will mate them to the yellow hens that I made and I will then get the cocks and hens.That seems like a long time for me but, I'm probably just impatient. But thanks!!
Before I did this, I was using Dun hens (dilutes of black)mated to red Cocks trying to get it, but it just happened this other way.
Richard
v99, both birds have to carry bar in order to produce bar, but I dont believe that a recessive bird can carry bar. are you sure that it is recessive? or maybe just messing around??
Last Edited by Richard A. on Jun 22, 2005 8:55 PM
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Richard A.
21 posts
Jun 22, 2005
9:09 PM
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Bob I just saw the color chart that you are putting together. Great!!!! Job!!!!
Richard
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motherlodelofts
108 posts
Jun 22, 2005
9:43 PM
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Get a can of yellow spray paint, problem solved
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
31 posts
Jun 22, 2005
10:35 PM
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(V99 wrote) I have a color question. How does a red check w/f cock, and a rec red w/f hen make a blue bar chick? They lost me on that one.
V, The cock carries bar and the R/R hen is either bar underneath or carries bar as well. To get a bar (or any standard pattern) requires two pattern genes, one from each parent. Your cock is also split for blue (carries blue) which is why you got a blue hen. Its a sex linked mating in that regards.
Richard, W/F generally means White Flighted (ie, Red Check White Flight)
And, a recessive red bird is a pattern and color underneath (ie, A recessive red can be a black self over bar/bar) as well as possibly carrying patterns as well. Recessive red is just a coat over the true color and marking of the bird.
In the mating you described, was the original red hen a RR or ash red? Keep in mind that you also have the 50/50 chance of your cocks also carrying the almond gene.
Brian.
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Richard A.
24 posts
Jun 23, 2005
7:05 PM
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If the hen is white flighted, she is ash red, out of bald head. People always confuse these with recessives because they are so dark. Just a while back I was called about the same type of mating that done by one of the well known flyers and had produced an ash red bird and it confused everyone.
Richard
Last Edited by Richard A. on Jun 23, 2005 7:10 PM
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Richard A.
25 posts
Jun 23, 2005
8:09 PM
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The Recessive gene is down at the bottom of the genetic totum pole. Other patterns , actually just about anything can carry recessive, but recessive does not carry any pattern. My guess is that your hen is a barred bird, but difficult to see.
Richard
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
37 posts
Jun 24, 2005
12:29 AM
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Richard, you can have a white flighted bird in any color. The white flight marking is independent of color. He can have an ash red or recessive red hen with white flights. I have several. Recessive red is a coat covering a color and marking.
Brian.
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birdman
27 posts
Jun 24, 2005
6:43 AM
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Brian, how does the dilute gene affect a heavily bronzed bird? Thanks!
Russ
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Slobberknocker
18 posts
Jun 24, 2005
9:22 AM
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Richard, thank you for the comment about my color chart. It is designed to help those who have a question about the color of their birds.
Brian is right in that a Blue can come from two Reds. However, cock birds cannot carry Almond. They either are Almond or they are not. This is a big misconception reagrding colors in that people think that a bird can carry any and all colors. Some colors can be carried, but some simply cannot.
As far as Dilute affecting a heavily Bronzed bird, it would depend on what the Bronzed bird is. If it is like many Rollers just a Blue Check that shows some bronzing or sometimes called Kite (probably carrying Recessive Red), then Dilute would give you a true Silver with orange-ish coloration where the bronze is now. Sometimes you may even see a gold coloring in the breast on a Dilute Kite bird.
I hope this helps and I do appreciate this forum remaining civil.
Bob
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www.slobberknockerlofts.com
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Alan Bliven
185 posts
Jun 24, 2005
10:34 AM
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Can yellows be created by breeding rec red to rec red?
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Alan
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rollerpigeon1963
20 posts
Jun 24, 2005
11:02 AM
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Alan,
Rec red is a masking factor. It covers any color that the parents may be. If the cock is carring dilute and he is a rec red then you will have some yellow hens. If the hen is carring dilute and she is a rec red and the cock dosen't. Then you won't get any yellows from this mating just young carring the dilute gene. Its a little harder to understand but in time it is rather easy once you know a little genetics.
Brian
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Slobberknocker
19 posts
Jun 24, 2005
12:22 PM
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Alan,
Recesssive Red is, like Brian said, a masking factor. You would get some Yellow hens from a Recessive red cock carrying Dilute. However, hens cannot carry Dilute. They either are or are not Dilute. If the hen is Recessive Red Dilute, then she is Yellow. Only the young cocks from a Dilute hen will also carry Dilute.
Also, Recessive Red does not mask Dilute. Recessve Red can mask Blue, Ash Red, or Brown, but not Dilute. There is a difference between masking and carrying.
For example, if a Recessive Red cock is masking Blue, the bird is genetically a Blue bird that is covered up by the Recessive Red. If a Recessive Red cock carries Dilute, it is no different than any other cock bird carrying Dilute and will produce some Dilutes. There are some basic rules on the color chart of my website.
Bob
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www.slobberknockerlofts.com
Last Edited by Slobberknocker on Jun 24, 2005 12:23 PM
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rollerpigeon1963
21 posts
Jun 24, 2005
1:53 PM
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Alan,
Hey Bob,
So rec red cant mask yellow? I'm not a genetics person but I was thinking that rec red could cover everything. So if you have a hen that is rec red that is out of a pair of yellow. The hen wont carry yellow but just be a rec red? But wont she still be a dilute? Or is this term called rec yellows? I'm not to familiar with yellows but I do like the Rec Red gene. Like I said I'm learning something here and would really like to know.
Thanks Brian
Recesssive Red is, like Brian said, a masking factor. You would get some Yellow hens from a Recessive red cock carrying Dilute. However, hens cannot carry Dilute. They either are or are not Dilute. If the hen is Recessive Red Dilute, then she is Yellow. Only the young cocks from a
For example, if a Recessive Red cock is masking Blue, the bird is genetically a Blue bird that is covered up by the Recessive Red. If a Recessive Red cock carries Dilute, it is no different than any other cock bird carrying Dilute and will produce some Dilutes. There are some basic rules on the color chart of my website.
Bob
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Alan Bliven
186 posts
Jun 24, 2005
2:42 PM
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I don't know what the parents are of the rec red cock but the rec red hen's parents are both solid black.
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Alan
Last Edited by Alan Bliven on Jun 24, 2005 2:46 PM
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Slobberknocker
20 posts
Jun 24, 2005
2:47 PM
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Hi Brian,
Recessive Red does not mask everything. Two Yellows will only produce Dilutes (most likely Yellows). So you cannot get a Recessive Red hen from two Yellows. She would be Yellow and Recessive Yellow is Dilute Recessive Red.
Alan, you are right that your Recessive Red from the Black pair is masking Black. It also means that both Blacks carry Recessive Red. Recessive Red must be on both sides of a mating (either visual or carried) in order to reproduce it.
Bob
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www.slobberknockerlofts.com
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Alan Bliven
187 posts
Jun 24, 2005
8:20 PM
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Bob, if the cock bird carries dilute could this pairing produce yellows?
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Alan
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highroller
31 posts
Jun 24, 2005
8:23 PM
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Alan,
You would get some yellows, all of them would be hens.
Dan
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Slobberknocker
22 posts
Jun 25, 2005
8:13 AM
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Alan,
Dan is absolutely right. The percentage is like 50% of the young hens will be Dilute of some kind.
Bob
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www.slobberknockerlofts.com
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Richard A.
27 posts
Jun 25, 2005
11:10 AM
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Thank you Brian. I have bred recessives for alot of years and have never seen one that was different, but that sure does'nt mean that they dont exist. I have never thrown any color or pattern from a recessive bird, but have thrown other colors and patterns from Ash reds all of the time. There was a time that I had barless birds (not rollers) that carried recessive. I gave up on them though! Breeding different colors can be challenging. Some of my Original stock goes back to Baldheads and I breed with a few red, white flighted ones that are out of Baldheads and they are very dark red and quite a few people confuse them with recessives. Genetics ae confusing though, especially to me.
Thanks,
Richard
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
326 posts
Jun 25, 2005
11:26 AM
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Richard.I never knew anything about genetics untill I met Bob.I got the book he wrote and finally with Bob teaching me I have come to understand some of it.I still get confused and have to call Bob to straighten me out.LOL.I find it very rewarding and is something you can learn and try in your loft in the winter time when things get boring.I would reccomend Bob's book to anyone who wants to study the Genetic side of rollers.Bob wrote it so it was easy to understand.David
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Richard A.
28 posts
Jun 25, 2005
8:21 PM
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Where is your book available Bob??
I really would like to have one!!!
Richard
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Slobberknocker
23 posts
Jun 26, 2005
5:28 AM
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Hi Richard,
Please email me at mcguan@charter.net or go to my website for info and I will get you one.
Thank you,
Bob
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www.slobberknockerlofts.com
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nicksiders
153 posts
Jun 26, 2005
10:04 PM
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If your looking for some good performing yellows Bob Hord in Illinois has them. He got them going as a strain of his own when there once was a time when many breeders felt that yellows couldn't perform..........he did it to prove that they could.
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
43 posts
Jun 26, 2005
10:27 PM
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Nick, I don't believe it is a question of whether or not a yellow can perform. Every one I have seen in the air performed. The question many face is whether or not they can hold up.
Eddie Verdugo has been working with yellows too. He has a nice kit of all yellows that roll all over the place. Pretty sight to see on a nice blue sky day. One day he flew a kit that was half recessive red and half recessive yellow. It was a trip to see the kit flying around above the yard with only two bold colors like that. I'll never forget it.
Brian.
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Richard A.
34 posts
Jun 27, 2005
2:48 PM
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Iv'e known Eddie for at least 30 years. Almost as long as Iv'e raised rollers. Eddie loves the recessives, while I am raising Ash Red and Ash Yellows. I agree with Brian. Whether or not the recessives will hold up. Eddie's blacks came from me. He says that recessives will last in the air and is determined to prove that his will. I hope that he is sucessfull. So far so good.
Richard
Last Edited by Richard A. on Jun 27, 2005 2:50 PM
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big al
30 posts
Jul 02, 2005
2:30 PM
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Hey!
Why not just dye them!! Who's gonna' know?!! LOL! Hmmm...
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Big Al
"High Plains Spinner Loft"
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Richard A.
42 posts
Jul 06, 2005
7:04 PM
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That's the best suggestion so far. Thanks AL!!!
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fhtfire
158 posts
Jul 06, 2005
7:33 PM
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I had the opportunity to see Eddie Verdugo's yellows fly as well as a couple other kits. They looked pretty good from what I saw. I agree with Brian..it is a site to see...yellows in the blue sky. Tony Chavarria and Sal Estrada took me over to see Eddies birds. Eddie is a real nice guy and has a real nice and clean set up. It was a pleasure to meet Eddie...It seems to me that he is heading in the right direction with his Yellows...some were hitting some real nice rolls. I think Eddie should send Scott Campbell a couple pair..>LOL
rock and ROLL
Paul
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big al
36 posts
Jul 13, 2005
7:02 PM
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Hey Guys,
Since we're talking color. How does one get a solid rich colored lavender. Also the dunn.
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Big Al
"High Plains Spinner Loft"
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Richard A.
57 posts
Jul 18, 2005
7:18 PM
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Mate Light Ash reds to Blacks
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