motherlodelofts
387 posts
Oct 23, 2005
5:24 PM
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Darin wrote :
Something comes to mind. Maybe it won't ever happen. However, with all of the tempers flaring and comments being made does it concern any of you that at some point, one of you might be judging the other person's birds in a competition. KGB, I don't know if you judge now but you obviously have the knowledge to be able to do so in the future if employment or something like that prevents it now. If you were assigned to the area where one of these color breeders live and you had to judge them, would you do it?
Darin a good bird can't be denied unless you are a bozo or can't reconize a good bird. I have done quite a bit of judging (three regions) and Calif. State fly plus local and have never been accused of not judging birds due their color , although there have only been a few that have these type of birds that flew in competition out of these hundred plus kits , not including local kits that I have judged.
In fact I gave a second place qaulifying spot to a guy that had Andulutions in his team in one of the regions.
Also JoeBob (W/C winner)asked me to judge the NBRC finals year before last when he was running it , and yes he does know my position on these birds.
When you are standing under a team of birds there is nothing but you and that team of birds , if you allow anything else to play in than you have no busisness judging anything anytime.
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Oct 23, 2005 8:05 PM
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Double D
49 posts
Oct 23, 2005
8:45 PM
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Scott,
Thank you for the insight. I would assume you judge every kit equally but if I were a fancier who had color birds and I had been reading here and knew how you felt about it and you were my judge, I would think it would range from me feeling a little uncomfortable all the way to accusing you of not giving my birds a fair shake if the score wasn't what I felt it ought to be. Just a risk that you take I suppose.
I'm sure you are always the consumate professional when judging and I would image quite often it's not only the judge and the fancier in the backyard but a number of other people as well which would certainly require a certain level of objectivity.
In any event, thanks again for your reply.
Darin
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motherlodelofts
388 posts
Oct 23, 2005
9:31 PM
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Darin they would have to get in line with everyone else,the only ones happy are the winners, when the kit is in the air I have no friends and no enemies , it is just me and the birds "nothing" else matters.
When I judge it is because I am asked to judge, for me it is a job and nothing else.
One thing that I can guarantee is that the top kits will be in the right order no matter what,also it is rare that everyone in attendance will not agree on which were the best teams of the fly.
Also Darin there are so few guys flying this type of bird in competition that it is really a non issue.
With the guys that are that are competitive you almost wouldn't even know it unless you looked close.
A prime example of this is this years W/C winner whose name these guys like to throw around , he had only one that showed the "rare" color.
The same for Brian Mc here on this forum , He only has a few on the property that show strange blood.
The bulk of the guys that sound off here breed for it and it is obvious if you visit their websites, these type of guys you rarely run accross out judging , it may different in the S. East where these things were largly developed , but that is a small segmant compared to the rest of the roller world.
Like I said it is really just a non issue when you are out judging.
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Oct 23, 2005 11:41 PM
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
532 posts
Oct 24, 2005
3:16 AM
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Scott.First let me say I would trust you completly to judge any of my rollers.LOL.
You said:Like I said it is really just a non issue when you are out judging.
Scott
If this be true: Why is it such a big issue on the Roller Forums? Why can,t it be accepted here just as it would be if someone was judging them? David
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Ballrollers
110 posts
Oct 24, 2005
8:07 AM
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KGB, No, I do not have any Milky or Toy Stencil birds in my family of rollers; primarily Indigo, Andalusian, and reduced. I do have one Dominant Opal cock, as well. This is a good example of the kind of sweeping generalizations that you tend to make that make your arguments invalid.
You also challenged my statement that any side projects of breed outcrosses by Turner and Jay are irrelevant. How can they be relevant to the blood in the family if Jay and James culled all the progeny from those side projects? If you will read and atttempt to understand what is being said by those that oppose you, before you go off, we can avoid a lot of repitition in these discussions.
Finally you keep challenging my 50-75 year time frame. Let me explain. James started in rollers in the early 60s. That's 45 years ago. The rollers he used, had been a work in progress for 25 to 35 years by other men who were experts in genetics. So it is simple addition. It varies with the particular color modifier. He refined most of the performance of the rollers with color modifiers in the early eighties and had them up to performance quality winning regional competitions in the late eighties and early 90s. I can only speak for this family of birds, not any others. Are there breed outcrosses still going on today, by other men? Possibly. But you cannot compare and equate those families just because both have color genes any more than we can equate your Pensom derivatives and the stiff non-spinning Pensom birds that I got burned with. It would be just as rediculous for us to generalize, based on my experience, that all Pensom birds must be crap. The families are completely different in both cases. The sweeping generalizations are invalid in both cirumstances. YITS Cliff
Last Edited by Ballrollers on Oct 24, 2005 8:14 AM
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Ballrollers
111 posts
Oct 24, 2005
12:47 PM
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Regarding KGB being "overlooked" in the judging, show me anywhere in the fly rules/By-laws where it is written that the FF judge (20 or 11) is to be considered for the next FF judge. The rules state that the FF judge should be the best judge the NBRC can find. Besides, Alex put an article in the bulletin asking for anyone who felt qualified to judge the FF, to please contact him an KGB apparently did not do so. So why the sour grapes at this point and in relation to the color topic???? Hmmmmmmmmmm YITS Cliff
Last Edited by Ballrollers on Oct 24, 2005 12:48 PM
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Ballrollers
112 posts
Oct 24, 2005
1:01 PM
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Shaun, If all the accomplishments of James Turner, in the development of this family, were so dastardly and have brought untold ruination upon the breed, why do you think he was voted in as the NBRC president and why was he voted into the NBRC Hall of Fame? While a few men may disagree with his putting color into quality performing rollers, this small minority obviously does not speak for the NBRC or the majority of its members. So in your evaluation of the genius of the man and his contribution to the organization and to the breed, you are free to believe the rantings of a few disgruntled men, or to look at the record of the man, James Turner, and what the NBRC membership thought of him and his accomplishments in their recognition of both. YITS Cliff
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motherlodelofts
389 posts
Oct 24, 2005
1:58 PM
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Cliff you are 100 0/0 correct,we do "NOT" speak for the NBRC , in fact "nobody" does, it is governed strictly by the bylaws.
Elected officials and the "Hall Of Fame" has nothing to do with the pigeons they raise.
It evolves around their service to the club.
The "Master Flier" award is what is in place to reconize the accomplishments of flyers and their birds.
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Oct 24, 2005 2:31 PM
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spinnerpigeon
47 posts
Oct 24, 2005
3:30 PM
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("Elected officials and the "Hall Of Fame" has nothing to do with the pigeons they raise.")
LOL!
Below is a qoute from the NBRC bylaws....
"The Hall of Fame Award is established to recognize those individuals that have made substantial contributions to the breeding, flying, and judging of Birmingham Rollers" (quote from NBRC Bylaws)
It don't get any clearer than that... Scott
...All I can say is that you are truely one of the
Birmingham Rollers' finest adherants....
Caleb
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motherlodelofts
391 posts
Oct 24, 2005
4:52 PM
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Caleb, this has been hashed over with several hall of Fame members in an open forum regarding several people and why they have not been voted in and the reasons why . According to "them" they look at those that have gone above the call of duty as far as service to the NBRC.
When the by laws were brought up about particular peoples birds and what they had done with them as far as breeding and fly records , their answer was.
"that is why the master flier award was put into place and that takes care of that aspect and rewards such members " .
The bottom line Caleb is they look at the service rendered by the people nominated, there are more than a few in there who have absoulutly no reputation as far as there birds go and no fly record , James Turner is known for both his service and birds.
But he is in there due to the service that he provided to the NBRC.
Caleb you bring up a good point and I assume that was written prior to the master flier award system being put into place.
The master flier award is pretty self explanitary and covers all the above in your post except for the judgeing which falls under service.
All I am doing here is passing on information that was passed on to us by some HOF members on what they look at when considering nominations.
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Oct 24, 2005 6:45 PM
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Phantom1
58 posts
Oct 25, 2005
6:40 AM
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Kenny,
Sorry - just getting back to your reply in this thread. Thank you for the reply. I will definitely look you up if I'm ever in Utah - long way from Texas LOL! But who knows. I'm very pleased with the way things are progressing for the folks on each side of this fence. We each have our own goals and ideals about how things should go, but we all should be able to get along and learn from one another along the way.
Eric
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Ballrollers
114 posts
Oct 25, 2005
10:57 AM
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Scott and others on the list,
Quote from the Sept.-Oct. NBRC bulletin by Juan Navarro-Vice President. "...there are a few actions that all (HOF) nominees share in common:
They have been involved with the NBRC over a period of time
They have supported activities in their local area.
They have supported national activities.
They have helped many fanciers start out with rollers and learn about our hobby.
They have flown quality birds.
Some (but not all) have traveled and judged throughout the country and the world.
They have sustained their high level of participitation in the hobby over a long period of time."
So you see breeding, flying and disseminating quality birds, is, indeed, an integral part of being voted to become a member of the Hall of Fame. YITS, Cliff
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motherlodelofts
395 posts
Oct 25, 2005
11:47 AM
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Cliff I was just relaying what we were told by some HOF members.
The "must fly qaulity birds" is pretty open ended don't you think ? I can't imagine someone that has given years of service told that they didn't make HOF because they have crappy pigeons , can you ?
Where the master flyer award isn't open ended as it is on a point system based on what a flier does as far as "major" fly accomplishments , it used to take in also local fly and state fly but no more , only "major fly accomplishments are used.
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Oct 25, 2005 12:33 PM
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
534 posts
Oct 25, 2005
12:00 PM
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Scott.They tell me I have earned my First Master Flyer Points.There sure has been a lot of Firsts for Region 1C this year.LOL. David
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motherlodelofts
396 posts
Oct 25, 2005
12:31 PM
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Yes you did Dave , Congrads !!!!!
Scott
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Ballrollers
115 posts
Oct 25, 2005
12:43 PM
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Scott,
"Has flown quality birds", means just what it says...quality birds! If the NBRC and its members believed that some dastardly crime against the breed had been committed, certainly they would have refused to acknowledge his contributions and he would not have been voted into the Hall of Fame. I can't really believe that you insist on belaboring the point and challenging the fact. The NBRC has programs in place that recognize great flyers, as well as programs that recogninze those rare individuals that are true ambassadors for the fancy and the breed. Both have their place and both groups of men have shown their worth within the NBRC, and are acknowledged for it. That was my point with Turner. I might add that without the platform of the NBRC (or some other club/fly affiliation in the past) there would be no master flyers. YITS Cliff
Last Edited by Ballrollers on Oct 25, 2005 12:55 PM
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motherlodelofts
397 posts
Oct 25, 2005
4:03 PM
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Cliff I don't think that we are on the same page here, you have Turner on the brain and this has nothing to do with Turner.
Cliff I passed on info that was passed on to us and this doesn't even have anything to do with Turner !!!!! ,I don't know what else to tell ya.
The HOF is for the service of people that have been the "rocks" of the club.
Without many of these people the club would not be what it is today.
A good example of this is Turner getting the treasury of the NBRC into the open which it never had and was a major issue , and then to pull the NBRC through a very very tough time.
What Turner did for the NBRC goes far beyond the birds and for what he endured he earned the respect of many, and the same holds true for more than a few others in there.
There are more than a few that wouldn't be in their if the birds actually played in, without such people where would we be ?
The HOF is to honor these people for the hard work of a mostly thankless job that they have done for the club, no club can survive without such members , and like I mentioned earlier "it goes far beyond the birds".
And the fact is Cliff other than friends most around the country could give a rats ass about someone elses birds .
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Oct 26, 2005 6:39 AM
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Mongrel Lofts
60 posts
Oct 26, 2005
6:02 PM
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Scott,
You have got to just give it up man. Arguing with these guys, is like arguing with the handicapped Mongoloid at McDonalds when he takes your food tray with your food on it. You can't get the point across your not done with the food. He throws your food in the garbage and is just happy you paid attention to him.. Give it up Scott!!! LOL Mongrel Lofts
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knaylor
4 posts
Oct 26, 2005
6:28 PM
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Kenny, very well said. LOL Kevin
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nicksiders
260 posts
Oct 27, 2005
12:44 AM
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The HOF being heavily based on service to the NBRC explains why people like Mr. Norwood is not in it. I don't think he ever served in any capacity in the NBRC other than just a membership here and there. That is probably true with many others not in the HOF.
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siddiqir
110 posts
Dec 07, 2005
1:00 PM
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My original question did not get answered. Any input?
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
287 posts
Dec 07, 2005
1:43 PM
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Sid, I believe your question was answered.
If you mean, what sexes will the babies be? There is no way to tell as both parents are blue, therefore, the mating is not sex-linked. It doesn't matter if the hen is grizzle and the cock is not. They are both blue based birds, therefore, all young will be blue/black. The white is irrelevant. In other words, you will have to wait until they lay eggs or coo like a rooster before you will know with any certainty.
Brian.
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