parlorfancier916
100 posts
Jul 09, 2006
9:46 AM
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When I woke up this morning to check upon my loft, we'll let's just say I did not see anybirds in the holdover pens, the young kit, the breeding cage, and breeding loft.. I don't know anyone that has visited my loft besides a few of my friends I've been with since elementary to highschool.. can't even trust them no more.. Man! I'm pissed, 1 year of working with my proven birds and 40 of the parlor rollers. The theif must be fast or something, he stole 42 pairs of parlor rollers, 1 pair of fireballrollers, 23 young parlor rollers(still in flight)... shoot! I need a bigger locker.. well anyways I guess I won't be breeding for a while (need to save money to build from scratch), well this sucks big time! well I'll still be here though
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nicksiders
701 posts
Jul 09, 2006
10:02 AM
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Something is rotten in Denmark.
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Snicker Rollers
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thong
17 posts
Jul 09, 2006
10:59 AM
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Get up, shake it off, and start over. Thats all you can do.
thong
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RED_DEVIL
6 posts
Jul 09, 2006
2:09 PM
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Paul your right....sometime i help new people get into the hobbeis by giving a pair for them to start it off...will i have some of my birds stolen before but not alot about 15 birds where stolen...all you can do is start all over!
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Heyyou
9 posts
Jul 09, 2006
3:32 PM
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YOu will no doubt get some of them back due to the fact that most of those sob's don't know enough to train them. Put out some feelers to the neighborhood kids with small "incentives" if they come across someone with pigeons and let you know and back track to all those that have visited you and let them know you will get the thieves and go snooping around their hoods. It is hard to keep a theft that large quiet. Bill
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nicksiders
702 posts
Jul 09, 2006
3:33 PM
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Padlocks; large ugly dog; and lights does wonders in keeping the scum away.
RED DEVIL you need to giving Kenny his information, if you haven't already.
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Snicker Rollers
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parlorfancier916
101 posts
Jul 09, 2006
4:13 PM
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I should've checked my loft when the pet bulls were barking, urg pisses me off.. now my entire families are gone. urg.. I need to do something to forget about it..
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RED_DEVIL
8 posts
Jul 09, 2006
5:40 PM
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parlorfancier916...i will like to help you get back into the hobbie but you will have to wait until next year when i start breeding my birds again...now i seperate the hens and the cocks...if you can't wait that long then sorry, plus if you do want the birds you will have to contact me cause i only breed enough for myself to fly...(thats about 30 birds a year only)...need to save on feeds
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katyroller
36 posts
Jul 09, 2006
6:09 PM
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Sorry, to hear about your loss. Over the years I have learned a few lessons that I think have helped keep my birds secure.
1)get a dog and good locks
2)beware of strangers showing up at your door asking about birds- this sucks because I have met alot of folks by following a kit home. I grew up in NYC and rooftop fliers would rarely let you on the roof unless you were referred by a friend or until they got to know you.
3)don't get into pissing contests with other flyers- this includes the internet because you may not be as anonymous as you think.
Your loss could be a gift in disguise. Pick up the pieces and push on. Good Luck,
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C.J.
394 posts
Jul 09, 2006
7:17 PM
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Red if you are truly serious and want to help the guy out it is still early enough in the season to breed him a kit.
Don't offer and then tell him to wait til next year. It is like asking your kid if they want a bike then saying but you will have to wait until next christmas. It just isn't fair.
C.J.
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Planet_Rock_Lofts
55 posts
Jul 09, 2006
9:46 PM
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Parlorfancier916
It sucks when someone takes something of yours and you put so much work into it. I think someone said to put feelers out about birds being sold in one of the posts. However, you might want to play it by ear first and be observant about your neighborhood or ANYONE who has visited your loft. This includes any adults or kids. People let things slip during conversations and by you playing it close to the vest or even like nothing ever happened may be to your advantage. What is the old saying; "Be smart as a serpent and as wise an owl."
Anyways good luck and I'm sorry for your misfortune.
Planet Rock Lofts
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parlorfancier916
105 posts
Jul 09, 2006
11:22 PM
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welp thnkx for the offer you guys, but I guess I'm not raising any flying rollers no more, maybe only as fosters. I don't want anybody else to know I have birds in my back yard, no more kits for me, unless if it is a parlor roller kit.. well anyways thanks for caring, from this day on, I guess I am going to breed only parlor rollers. I can enjoy watching some family fly their birds.. Welp thanks for the concerns, this sucks big time, I don't have bands for the birds as well... um.. maybe I should join a club or something...urgh!! I am still pissed off, and thanx for the offer red, but I guess I am not going to be flying a kit for a long time, maybe until I move out..
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AIREDALE
21 posts
Jul 10, 2006
2:51 AM
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PARLORFANCIER,
Sorry to hear about your loss.It seems pigeon thieves today are much more selective and know exactly what they want.It sounds like they were more interested in your Parlors than the Birminghams.It's really hard when you put in so much work and then it vanishes.I talked to Charlie Hubbs a couple of weeks ago.Charlie is 85 yrs old and been in rollers since he was a kid.He told me someone broke into his loft and took 44 of his best birds.It broke my heart to hear that a lifetime of work went down the drain.Charlie is a real class guy as anyone will tell you.He is rebuilding now through the help of friends that he has helped in the past.I hope you will continue in both parlors and flyers.your posts on this forum have been helpful and I would hate to see you get out of Pigeons.Thieves of today seem to be highly organized and selective. Hope you get your birds back. best of luck.
John
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Mr.JX
13 posts
Jul 10, 2006
8:52 AM
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Don't let something like that stop you from raising birds. I have been through the same situation. It might not be your friends, maybe a neighbor that just watchs from a distance.
For me I got sick and tired of them taking birds. I bought some motion alarm and hid them around my house pointing towards my kit box. I then bought some birds train them in and flew them late in the afternoon so that the neighborhood kids could notice them. The second day someone came and tried to steal them. I just stared out of my window and dailed 911. The police took along time because I said that it was pigeons. They chaised him, but couldn't catch him. It did stop for now.
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Alohazona
171 posts
Jul 10, 2006
10:23 AM
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Parlor,
Let me suggest a Private Investigater.Before you laugh or shootit down,let me tell you it can work very effectivly.For about $1000 dollars you can find these guys and move toward a felony conviction,jueville or not.The best case scenario is you get a majority of your stock back and send a message to theives they can be tracked down.I would get the ball rolling before the trail gets cold.They will probably get a slap on the wrist,but you will know who they are and get some expert advise on how to deal with this in the future.It's alot of money,but weigh it against the time you have in to it,its a drop in the bucket.
For the guys who suggested bodily harm,Big Dawgs or weaponry the Laws are not condusive for these actions in regards to pigeons being stolen, period.It can also be a life changing event,theives and thugs are not the types to be caught in the act and are prepared if they are,pigeons aside.Let it be a wake up call and be careful out there.Being a practioner of martial arts for 24 years,lets just say you can get yourself in a situation real quick by letting your emotions take over.I'm not aware of anyone that dodge a bullet and I have met some amazing individuals."Sometimes you get the Bear and sometimes the Bear gets you",and for what pigeons???...Think about it!!!.....Aloha,Todd
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RB&R
22 posts
Jul 10, 2006
12:16 PM
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when i was still live in modesto, cali. i have some jac's birds that would roll 30 ft. every birds in the kit roll. it's take me couple years to reach that and one day two couple guys came to my house. they were wore baging jean and long hairs. they knock my door and ask if i have any birds for sale. i told them that i don't have any, but i will give them couple cull birds. they wait at front door, than i went to backyard and grab couple cull birds for those guys. i saw they drove a WHITE HONDA CIVIC HATCHBACK. on that day i let my best birds fly, than i saw that honda car park across the street, when i look closely i saw those guys again watching my birds fly. by that time i knew they'll gotta come and steal my birds. i went to store and buy couple alarm set around my kit box, i also called the police make sure they keep eye on my area. nothing happen for couple weeks, then it happen, the alarm went off at 3 am in the morning i get up from my bed and grab a long stick went outside while three same guys still catch my birds from my #1 kit. i hit one guys on his forehead so hard he almost KO. then i saw the other guys pull out a knife, as soon i see that i run into my house and called police right away. then i went outside again they already left, but i know one guys got a cut on his forehead....big cut... i lost 10 birds...but i don't kare at least he got that ugly cut on his face. Now i live down south of cali.
Andrew
Last Edited by on Jun 04, 2007 9:05 AM
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RED_DEVIL
9 posts
Jul 10, 2006
1:01 PM
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Andrew i know how you felt...everyone that raise roller have been in that situation...i start raise rollers in 2001 and within that time my birds got stole 3 time...i was soo close of giving up the roller hobby..i know the people that stole my birds it was two guy...(i saw them in my breeding loft)..i know that they're after my breeders...when i saw them catching my birds i went home and grab my BB gun...(during that time i have only BB gun)..LOL...so i shoot and it hit one of the guy in the back and he yeild out loud...they look around and saw me...i got scare i call the police. It took the police about 15min to get to my home by that time the thevies have enough time to stole my breeders and left me with eggs and culls..everything in my old breeding loft was gone...if my birds get stolen again then im gonna quite the hobby and retire...
Last Edited by on Jun 04, 2007 9:06 AM
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
642 posts
Jul 10, 2006
1:18 PM
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Reminds me of when I was in high school, some fools broke into our house, when we were there asleep. Dad wakes up, grabs the gauge and chases the dudes out of the house where one falls in the pool first. They jump into this old Monte Carlo then Dad unloads on the car. They were caught about a mile away after we called the police. Cops told my old man, "we can't condone that kind of action, but I would have done the same thing".
A thief in these parts better plan on getting shot or shot at. Just the way the game is played.
Plan on punkin' someone? You better plan on getting punked in the process!
Brian.
Last Edited by MCCORMICKLOFTS on Jul 10, 2006 1:20 PM
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3757
63 posts
Jul 10, 2006
3:00 PM
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Brian - Ditto!!!
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lil_jess
6 posts
Jul 10, 2006
8:51 PM
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Hey Parlor 916 called me when you got a chance!!!!! I want you to have some young rollers for free to get back on your feet. I ran out of bands so they were all 06 youngs.
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parlorfancier916
107 posts
Jul 10, 2006
9:47 PM
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no it's okay jess and red I have acquired a few birds to rebuild my family, but I haven't seen them fly...
Last Edited by parlorfancier916 on Jul 10, 2006 11:23 PM
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J_Star
504 posts
Jul 11, 2006
4:45 AM
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You know, the whole thing of stealing birds really disgusts me. Low life people are all over and no matter what class they come from. I read allot about this crap happening throughout. Sometimes I feel blessed that in my area, rollers are not popular and not too many people have them. In my city, there are only two other household who have them, a father and his grown son. Only racing homers are most popular. Even so, how can you protect your birds while they are housed in the backyard? Maybe 6’ privacy fence all the way around? Having a dog, a gun or an alarm makes no difference. If someone is going to steal them, believe me, they will be stolen. You and your family go out and away for a few hours sometimes and for thieves, they will do it during daylight if they have to with no problem.
So, how would you protect your birds when that time comes? I know tough talk we all do, but let’s face reality and discuss this issue constructively and hopefully new idea(s) will come up. Thanks.
Jay
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Santandercol
176 posts
Jul 11, 2006
6:47 AM
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Right on Jay,
Guns don't work asit always comes down to who shoots faster!!Personnally,I couldn't live with having shot someone.And if someone shot me,,,,is it worth it??Some of the pics I've seen of guys lofts look like bank vaults in the Southern Cal. area.I think that is the only way to go to combat them damn crack heads.Them buggers will steal anything
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Kelly
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RED_DEVIL
10 posts
Jul 11, 2006
3:56 PM
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RB&R if you still remember how that white honda hatchback looks like then please alert everyone that has rollers, so that your situation don't happen to others...i have a similiar issue almost like yours that happen to me, but my birds didn't get stolen. it was couple month ago that i was flying my birds (about 16 of my birds) and some (Edited By Moderator: See Posting policy) was looking at my bird from the outside of my front house..one of the (Edited By Moderator: See Posting Policy) kid came and look if there's anyone in the backyard so he saw me and asked me "are they flippers" and i say "NO..they're ROLLERS"...so the kids asked me if i can sell him couples? but i try not to be rude i responded back in a respectful manner say "sorry i don't have enough birds and plus if you wanted some birds you either tell me in advance or wait til the year is over then i can sell it"...the (Edited By Moderator: See Posting Policy) kid walked away...i didn't real think that of him stealing my birds..but later on it was about 8pm him and his friend came back..they jumped into my backyard and start going towards my loft...my neighbor dog was barking so i decided to come and see whats going on...i see those same (Edited By Moderator: See Posting Policy) kids and they where still trying to open my loft so i yeild out "You OUT OF MY YARD"...so they start to run away....after that day on everytime i hear my neighbor dog barks i come and take a look at my loft"....will just to let everyone knows
Last Edited by Tony Chavarria on Jul 11, 2006 6:45 PM
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C.J.
401 posts
Jul 11, 2006
5:12 PM
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Red Devil you need to edit your post. The language used in you post is not necessary or accepted on this site. Please refrain from the use of such profanity.
Thank You
C.J.
Site Moderator
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dave
127 posts
Jul 11, 2006
5:45 PM
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Red Devil,
if you got (Edited By Moderator: See Posting Policy) kids coming to you then that means you are in the central valley and not navada like you said, lol. If you really like that sammy william stuff then Ken Billings can tell you alot more about them. He probably knows more about them than anyone else besides Sammy. I believe Sammy and Kenny were real good friends.
Last Edited by Tony Chavarria on Jul 11, 2006 6:48 PM
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RED_DEVIL
11 posts
Jul 11, 2006
5:47 PM
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dave im pretty sure that kenny knows alot about those birds cause i heard that he use to have that hen...
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dave
128 posts
Jul 11, 2006
5:58 PM
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Well, did you contact him to get info as you wanted to know more about them. Who are those(Edited by moderator;see posting policy) kids you got them from? Maybe some here might know them and can help you out to see if you got ripped off.
Last Edited by Santandercol on Jul 11, 2006 9:03 PM
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RED_DEVIL
12 posts
Jul 11, 2006
6:16 PM
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Dave i don't need to know anymore about the birds now!...as long as i know that Kenny use to have the hen then im pretty sure that its a good bird
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
717 posts
Jul 11, 2006
6:47 PM
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Hey Fellas, enough with the ethnicity references. Not neceesary to add that to tell your story.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Velo99
538 posts
Jul 12, 2006
1:15 PM
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Hey Tony,
Since when is it not suitable to be ethnic? I am German you are Latino, and Fhtfire is Brit I think. The term, Asian, was being used as a description of theiving little shits be they Inuit. I didn`t see where it was being used as an invective or deroggatory terms. Why the censor? I thought you were just gonna edit when the posts got voliatile and out of control. Who`s complaining? I didn`t see anything wrong. When you put that message edited deal on,it makes me think, "Damn! What did I miss?" The MF was out of line although a quote lol
C`mon,ease up buddy. Don`t go CNN on me.
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
Last Edited by Velo99 on Jul 12, 2006 1:25 PM
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knaylor
261 posts
Jul 12, 2006
1:20 PM
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Hey RED, until you give it up about where you got the birds, I concider you just as bad as the theives!! Kenny said he had both and he left them at Jacks. we all know that Jack has been ripped a few times over the past year. You want respect DO THE RIGHT THING!!!!!!!!!!!! Kevin
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RED_DEVIL
14 posts
Jul 12, 2006
2:18 PM
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Kevin Gaylor you should read all my post before asking or saying something that is stupid to me...
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RED_DEVIL
15 posts
Jul 12, 2006
2:19 PM
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Kevin Gaylor you should read all my post before asking or saying something that is stupid to me...
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RED_DEVIL
16 posts
Jul 12, 2006
2:19 PM
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Kevin Gaylor you should read all my post before asking or saying something that is stupid to me...
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fhtfire
531 posts
Jul 12, 2006
2:41 PM
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Tony,
I agree with Velo...If they are mexican, asian, white, black or whatever nationality...if they are kids stealing your birds and I say those white boys were in my loft...or there were three black a white and a mexican running from my house with my pigeons..or peaking over my fence...I would like to..know..especially if I live in ther area...then I can keep my eye out...As long as it is not a direct his on a certain ethnic background..it should be allowed....you even chopped up Daves post and I believe Dave is David Vang...He has been to my house and we have talked many many times and he is a good friend...and he is as asian..Hey..I am 1/4 Cherokee indiand and if someone said there three indian kids from the local reservation stealing pigeons...I would not feel bad about saying that they were indian...anyway
Kenny...I am Irish and Cherokee indian....I will get drunk and skalp you..LOL!! I think Chavarria is Italian...Anyway....I did not know you were German...my wife is Half German. Anyway...just my thoughts...
rock and ROLL
Paul
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nicksiders
706 posts
Jul 12, 2006
3:19 PM
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Well, I am all of them(Greek, African, Scottish, Indian - from India). I look like a white guy who tans well(LOL).
I raise Birmingham Rollers and that is the important thing and the only thing we should be discussing except that RED has to give Kenny some information so we can help Jack. And if we CULL some thieves in the meantime that would be OK too.
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Snicker Rollers
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birdman
193 posts
Jul 12, 2006
3:19 PM
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Tony, I agree with Paul and Velo, this political correctness crap is a bit much. I am a mixture of Native American, Irish, and German, and find no offense in pointing out the truth, regardless of anyone's race.
In my opion, this political correctness Bull S--t is a tool of a certain political persuasion to silence any free-thinking individual from expressing his/her individual opinion and does not need to be implemented on this website.
TRUTH IS TRUTH! Don't call the ACLU, just Deal with it!!!
Russ
Last Edited by birdman on Jul 12, 2006 3:27 PM
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
645 posts
Jul 12, 2006
3:29 PM
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I'm pretty much an American Mongrel, spawned by the indulging loins of most likely drunken redneck forefathers and swamp donkey brothel whores who were sons and daughters of a some people I never met that probably came over here on a boat from some place else like Ireland. I even discovered the spelling of my last name has changed several times in the last couple of hundred years, only adding to the confusion that manifests in my mongrel cranium. The only term I find derrogatory is when someone calls me a Honkie. My horn hasn't worked in years.
Brian.
Last Edited by MCCORMICKLOFTS on Jul 12, 2006 3:30 PM
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Heyyou
13 posts
Jul 12, 2006
4:32 PM
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My mom called me a redneck, does that count?
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
646 posts
Jul 12, 2006
5:09 PM
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That's nothing Hey, for the first ten years of my life I thought my name was Lil' Mutha F#&*%@r...lol.
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
724 posts
Jul 12, 2006
5:17 PM
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Okay, I am not talking about being politically correct, I am talking about smearing a whole group of people based on what some "asian" kid did or might have done.
By constantly referring to this or that "asian" kid in the context of stolen property, a thought process is projected that everyone needs to be aware of "asian" kids who might be lurking around waiting the chance to rip you off.
So let me be more specific for those that think this is funny and a point to be debated: STOP using the "asian" in the negative sense as it relates to stolen property.
I guess perhaps some might better see the point if they lived in asia and were in the minority and had some or many referencing their ethinic group as being the ones that were involved with stealing property.
I am not so sure you would want yourself included with that group by being painted with such a broad brush.
I think more thinking needs to go into some opinions being expressed here, because some ignorance is showing...?
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
725 posts
Jul 12, 2006
5:25 PM
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Hey Russ, I am a conservative christian who has voted for republicans my whole adult life except when I voted for Perot, because Bush the elder raised taxes.
I believe the government is given its authority by the people and for the people. I believe in little or no taxes, just enouygh to provide for a good military and infrastructure.
Political correctness is a blight on the American way of life and will destroy this country if allowed to continue. Multi-culturalism is dividing this country and the more we use hyphens in front of American, the more we weaken this country and its historical roots. If this continues we are headed to the trashheap of history.
Okay, now, I am NOT politically correct, but I still know that using "asian" in the context of this thread is not right.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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dave
129 posts
Jul 12, 2006
6:18 PM
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Tony,
I'm asian and I don't take offence. It is only offensive if you are asian and steal birds. I want to find out who these kids are so that I can pass it on in my community so that they will not be able to show their face ever again so they can crawl back under a rock where they belong and never see sunlight again.
Red Devil, no need to be calling Kevin names. You hear that Kenny had your bird so it is ok with you? What if it was a nobody like me that that the birds would that be ok? Just because Kenny had it does not mean it is a good bird. People are trying to help you out but at the same time it looks like you are trying to protect those kids. Did you ever think that maybe they did steal them from Jack? Don't you want to find out the truth? Red Devil, I think I know who you are and if you are that person than you are not a bad guy and have nothing to hide as I don't think you are they type that will steal birds.
Last Edited by dave on Jul 12, 2006 6:18 PM
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C.J.
423 posts
Jul 12, 2006
6:33 PM
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Red I agree with Dave. Man if you have birds that were purchased underhanded like, then don't you think you owe it to the guy to help him out. It may be alright now but what happens when they decide to steal your life's work? Will it still be o.k.? You come on here looking for assistance now you are getting all quiet, you are making me nervous again.
C.J.
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fhtfire
532 posts
Jul 12, 2006
6:35 PM
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Tony,
I am not sure if I see what you are seeing. It is hard to read the post since it has been edited...but to me it seem that some Asian kids were looking over his fence...and some Asian kids may have stole his pigeons. I do not think that means that all Asian kids steal pigeons..he is just saying a fact that the kid was asian. How else would you say it...a tan skinned, with slanted eyes, Black haired kid possibly deceding somewhere in the orient was looking over my fence at my pigeons...I am considered American Indian and I am registered in the East Band tribe of S.C....but If someone said there is a little american indian kid looking over my fence and may have stole my pigeons..how else would you say it...a red skinned, black haired kid, with a feather in his hair carrying some arrows was looking over my fence and he took off riding bare back on a painted horse....I am not being a smart ass by any means....but I think a person is just saying what decent that person looks like he comes from. I mean if "Slang" terms were used like "savages", or Blanket asses...(all indian slang)..now that is not right...I mean..if you wintnesed some Oriental decent individuals steal a car...and you were taking a report for the police...you would say that they were "asian"...I agree with you 100% that saying that all Asians are theives is dead wrong....just like saying all mexicans drive low riders...or all blacks are in gangs...and all Indians are alcoholics...anyway..I just do not think that it was used that way....I see that many people who post on this site are Asian...are they offended? We live in a very diverse society in America and I think everyone on this page is very respectful about race. Some of my best friends are Asian and I do not think that they would be offended. Anyway...I did not read the post that way... I just hate when race becomes an issue with anything....I think some race stuff has been clouded by the extemists that pull the race card at the drop of a hat....maybe I just fee this way...because I was raised Indian by my mother and Grandfather..I have been in a sweat house and had my vision as a teen...I have danced at Pow-Wows and I have been taught to not get offended by everything...Hell...half the sports teams in america use a native american as a mascot..we are a people not a mascot.....But most would say I am going to an indians game....How many indians are playing...LOL...anyway...My point is..that we can't pick and choose....if we can't say Asian, then we can't say Irishman, black dude, mexican, Italian guy.... East Indian...or I am going to a Indians game...it is in the context that it is said....Not the word.
Sometimes people ask me if I am Cherokee and I say...No that is a product of Jeep...LOL!!
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
726 posts
Jul 12, 2006
7:59 PM
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Hey Vel, I am complaining. I watch FOX news most nights, my favorites radio hosts are Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. I like Ann Coulter and think she's a FOX.
I am an American, no hyphen needed to distinguish myself from everyone else, I will let the fruit of my labor do that.
Let me take this from a different perspective:
1: Why is it neccessary to mention that this person is "asian"?
2: What does that have to do at all with telling the story of a theft?
3: How does knowing he is asian help my understanding of the story?
4: Who is this kid, is knowing he is asian somehow lend wieght and credibility to the story?
5: Why must I be asian to not like how it is being used?
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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RED_DEVIL
17 posts
Jul 12, 2006
8:05 PM
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Last Edited by RED_DEVIL on Jul 12, 2006 8:16 PM
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RED_DEVIL
18 posts
Jul 12, 2006
8:10 PM
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Last Edited by RED_DEVIL on Jul 12, 2006 8:16 PM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
727 posts
Jul 12, 2006
8:15 PM
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Hey Paul, it's context. I see using "asian" in this context is only going to make others suspicous of asians (kids).
This context feeds into promoting prejudice against a group of people. I am thinking about the asian kid who goes over to someones house who has read this thread and "wonders" is this asian kid someone to be concerned about?
An otherwise innocent asian kid has been grouped with a small minority of thieves. I am of the opinion that this is wrong and a shame that I allowed that kind of thread to stay on this site.
I don't buy into anyone saying, "no, not me, I wouldn't do that". Human nature, being what it is puts the thought there.
But I understand that some are not offended by this, so what, it still does not make it right. Roman society martyed thousands of christians and I am sure they were not offended either.
If my comments seem harsh to some, it does not offend or bother me...
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Last Edited by Tony Chavarria on Jul 12, 2006 8:25 PM
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