J_Star
722 posts
Dec 13, 2006
11:57 AM
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Scott, is that an appeasement to BMC's Andulutions.
Jay
Last Edited by on Dec 13, 2006 11:57 AM
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Hector Coya
25 posts
Dec 13, 2006
3:39 PM
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Knayler, Im saying my friend bred 3 mosaic in his loft out of the same family of birds i will send you a pic .if you dont believe you cant breed mosaic it just hapends call him his name is Charly Saldana.
Hector c
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Ballrollers
514 posts
Dec 13, 2006
4:15 PM
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Hector's right. I have known of guys that had a pair that threw a number of mosaics. Those pairs are in big demand by some, as you can imagine. Even though it occurs as a genetic accident of recombination, it has been hypothesized that is possible to have a particular gene code in a roller that is more susceptible to the occurrence of the "accident". So the mosaic trait itself is not a mutation that can be passed on to the progeny, but the genetic circumstances that open the door for it to develope, may be.
As Brian said, crests represent simply a double recessive trait that can be selected for, or selected out, in a strain, like webbed toes, the eyeless trait, etc. These recessive genes have been in rollers as long as they have been birds1 LOL!....Since the development of the breed, from its diverse genetic background...The existance of these traits does not mean a cross was necessary to bring it in, again, as Brian indicated. Some of you guys are so paranoid about crosses...you crack me up!! You can find the devil where ever you want to find him guys...or you can find God...your choice! LOL! If the shoe fits.....
YITS,
Cliff
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knaylor
354 posts
Dec 13, 2006
5:26 PM
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So now we are saying that you can breed for mosaics?? Never heard of this before. I even had a Mosaic cock a few years back that I bred out of for two years and never got one and the guy who had him before me never got one out of him.
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knaylor
355 posts
Dec 13, 2006
5:29 PM
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You can find the devil where ever you want to find him guys...or you can find God...your choice! LOL! If the shoe fits.....
YITS,
Cliff
You are one to talk??? Remember last w/c when you were talking all the garbage about us??? Plus you tried to stir a little up this year and it was squashed!!Did we say anything about how the FF ran this year this year?? No because we dont take it to a personnel level like you!!
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Hector Coya
26 posts
Dec 13, 2006
6:02 PM
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Knayler,the picture i sent you is one of 3 mosaics my friend bred,so there goes the theary that you cant breed mosaics.
Some people think they know it all,,,LOL
Hector C
Last Edited by on Dec 13, 2006 6:03 PM
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
872 posts
Dec 13, 2006
6:55 PM
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Hector, are you familiar with partial meosis?
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Hector Coya
27 posts
Dec 13, 2006
8:32 PM
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Brian ,no i havent.
Hector C
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JMUrbon
114 posts
Dec 13, 2006
8:39 PM
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Hector breeding for mosaic is not possible but breeding mosaics happens all the time. You just never know when they will happen. I have a cock bird that has thrown 2 and his father threw one. Still the same they are a genetic freak( if you will). You cannot put two birds together to intentionally get them. At least that is my perception of them. I am not a geneticist but that is what I am told. Joe
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Hector Coya
28 posts
Dec 13, 2006
8:46 PM
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Joe ,I understand ,my friend never put the pair together to breed mosaics neather parents are,
all i said was he bred 3 out of the same family,wich i thought was prety strange itself.
Hector C
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knaylor
358 posts
Dec 13, 2006
10:07 PM
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Hector, I am not following your post. Yes people do breed mosaics but are you saying that your friend has a pair that breeds them on a regular basis??
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
874 posts
Dec 13, 2006
11:00 PM
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Hector, my understanding of partial meiosis is when the cells are dividing and to keep this simple, the formulations of the chromosomes are assembling to create what we will eventually see, in some areas this development experiences an alternation of the intended method of development and consequently the expression in a particular area will be different than what it is supposed to be. A classic example of this is the blue pigeon with a recessive red spot. Most of these are birds which actually carry recessive red and basically because of a cell division snafu, the unintended recessive red color which should not be allowed to show itself, does.
Mosaicism is different. Though the dual expressions are similar, mosaics are said to possess more than the genetically intended group of cells which basically co-exist within the same organism. Obviously for some families of pigeons where inbreeding is popular there has been established a tendency for this "extra group of cells and information" to manifest itself.
The reason Mosaics are not reproducible is because if bred, the dominant of the two "packages" will most likely be the genetic package that is delievered to the embryo or sperm. Hence the bird possessing both can't deliever both.
There was a very cool mosaic picture posted on the genetics forum recently of a Capuchine that if memory serves me correctly was said to be a hen. It was red mottle on one side and yellow mottle on the other side. Truly unique, yet not reproducible.
Last Edited by on Dec 13, 2006 11:01 PM
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Ballrollers
515 posts
Dec 14, 2006
8:16 AM
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Exactly.....not reproduceable.....and cannot be bred for on a regular basis....yet some pairs are known to throw higher percentages of them than others....and for other pairs it's a once-in-a-lifetime occurrence.
YITS,
Cliff
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centralvalleylofts
47 posts
Dec 14, 2006
1:41 PM
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stan ive read with great interest your post. but like a few people have said put up and shut up. look man we are only here
for a small moment when we go to those pearly gates.will our
birds be kept. or will all those years invested be just a waist of time because the way we present ourselfs will also
speak of our birds.no hard feelings.
just a thought steve.
ps:when pensom died people were lined up to get his birds will
they line up to get yours or will they say who the f!!! was that. or will they end up at a dog trainers. shoot for sport instead of roll.
Last Edited by on Dec 14, 2006 1:46 PM
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STARFIRE
102 posts
Dec 14, 2006
5:26 PM
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hi C.J:
You know Wayne Lindsay?Hes had my birds for a number of years.He seems to be quite happy with them.The last time I talked to him he was telling me about a red marked white
cock off my Almonds that he got from me a few years ago.He says he can mate it with anything,and most of the young spin great,and deep.Do you know Colin Crow up there?He says he only keeps my family.He's very happy with them.
Dont forget to pick up them Barret birds.
STARFIRE
Last Edited by on Dec 14, 2006 5:44 PM
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STARFIRE
104 posts
Dec 15, 2006
11:58 AM
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--Hi Steve:
Your last post about the dog trainers,put me in mind of something that happened almost 40 years ago.There was a guy here in Ontario that imported a few pair of Red checks from Pensom himself.When he went out of birds in Around 1968,he took all the birds to a dealer in Toronto.That dealer could not sell very many of those Red Checks.The reason=Noboby liked Red Checks.He brought almost a hundred birds ,some in the original boxes that Pensom used to ship them.I seen them at the time.Pensoms name was on the boxes.I didnt know he went out of birds and by the time I found out they were all sold for meat Except for a few that were sold to the odd guy.I managed to get one pair of these and could not find any more.All the red checks in my loft come down from that one pair,because all the Sallinger Pensoms I started out with were barred birds.Boy that was really sad that nobody had gotten some of those birds and kept them pure.These birds were the foundation of my family of birds and I have never brought
in any birds unless they were Sallinger Pensoms since 1968
STARFIRE
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