nicksiders
1084 posts
Dec 28, 2006
8:50 PM
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Hey Bird,
I noticed that these posts are your first two on this site. Welcome aboard. There are many who believe and have kept the faith(LOL).
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by on Dec 28, 2006 8:51 PM
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
991 posts
Dec 28, 2006
8:56 PM
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Bird, I don't care about all of that mumbo-jumbo. What I want to know is, have you been to my lofts?
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Bird
3 posts
Dec 29, 2006
4:47 PM
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Mr Mccormick
Don't need to go to your house, anyone who thinks those ice Rollers were bred out of pure Birmingham Rollers, doesn't deserve a visit. Usually when someone believes that B.S, it can only mean one thing. They have more than one breed of pigeons, and 99% of their other breeds are of the rare colors, usually show birds. When your breeding show birds color doesn't really matter, unless your showing Nuns, Bald head west of englands, Helmets, ect ect. You can't cross a common pigeon with a Racing Homer, and expect to win a race, and you can't cross an Ice pigeon with a Birmingham Roller (that's what those crosses look like) and believe you can maintain the true Aerial Quality of the Birmingham Roller. It's not going to happen.
All you guy's out there preaching that their rare colored whatever they are, are pure Birmingham Rollers. Watch out it won't be long before someone comes up with the pigeon DNA tests. Then the truth shall be told.
Bird
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Bird
4 posts
Dec 29, 2006
5:02 PM
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Ballroller
Start the list. Oh, by the way make sure there's more than one Ice Roller in the kit. Seem's like there's alot of breeders out their defending the Roller crosses. If I'm to believe those Ice Rollers were bred out of pure Birmingham Rollers. If you were to start out with one pair of Blue Bars, one pair of Dark Checks, one pair of red checks, one pair of rec reds, one pair of self whites, one pair of red bars, basically all your standard colors. Do you believe you could produce those Ice Rollers? just like to know.
Bird
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sac_spinners
29 posts
Dec 29, 2006
5:27 PM
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Not to offend none of you guys but this is what joe bob sent me about the birds i got from him, i have talk to him one the phone and through email and he never mention anything about any lace or rare color birds:
My birds mainly go back to James Turner of SC-they are from birds raised by Bill Pensom and shipped to SC in the early 60's prior to his death. These birds had alot of depth and were prone to hit coming in, the SC flyers crossed pure Lloyd Thompson's from British Columbia and got the type of bird that I have now. When I got em, they still had alot of kitting issues and control on landing issues-but the spin was the best I had seen in all my travels-Carl Hardesty founded his line on one of these SC birds-the Shooting Star Hen. I got em in 90 and crossed in a Rick Mee Cock, Tom Vandenbossche hen(Starley/Easley stuff), Roger Baker/Bill Schriber hen and a Clay Hoyle/Danny Horner hen. The crosses were done for control and kitting improvement then went back to the original SC birds throughout the years to where the majority are only carrying 1/64th to 1/4 of these other families now.
This might explain his birds and there back round
spin to win
chor
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
993 posts
Dec 29, 2006
7:32 PM
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Bird, you said...
"Anyone who believes you can produce that particular color out of pure bred Birmingham Rollers, without crossing to another breed is foolish."
The bird you refer to above is reduced, a genetic mutation that wasn't "developed" from a roller, it was "discovered" in a roller. Prior to that it didn't exist, to my knowledge, in ANY breed. It was a mutation. Like it or not, I really don't care. This is how the reduced gene was discovered.
"All you have to do is look at the top flyers. I haven't seen that color at Jerry Higgins, Norm Reeds, Frank Lavins, I don't rememder seeing any J Leroy Smith, or Bill Pensom birds that were that color"
Birdbrain (I'll use that name since you are hiding behind an alias), are those the only top fliers that you know? Or do none other compare to them? I could name a few guys who fly color and have done Extremely well, one is a Master Flyer. I guess he lucked into that huh?
"come to think of it, I haven't seen that color at any respected Roller breeders loft"
Then you don't get out enough. You make a blanket statement such as this, which is why I ask you if you have been to my house? I have reduced, milky, opal, indigo and on, and on in my other breeds...hence, if you would have been to my house, you would see that I have them in my loft which would answer whether or not you would see them in a respected roller breeder's loft. I won't ask for your respect because it really won't matter to me whether you do or not. I let my birds do the talking for their worthiness.
And for the record, I don't condone the crossing of rollers to other breeds and I don't fly Birmingham Rollers. I fly American Competition Rollers which excludes me from giving a rats tail about whether or not a roller is pure to some guys name or not.
Happy New Year Birdbrain.
Brian.
Last Edited by on Jun 02, 2007 6:09 PM
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Missouri-Flyer
66 posts
Dec 29, 2006
8:14 PM
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LMAO @ Brian.... to funny. Jerry
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Eat, sleep, Cowboys, Pigeons... The facts of life
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motherlodelofts
1231 posts
Dec 29, 2006
8:50 PM
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Those darn mutations sure pop up in the funniest places LOL , here is my question, what breed are those two pigeons at the beginning of this thread ? they are obviously crossbred something.
Scott
Last Edited by on Dec 29, 2006 8:55 PM
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birdman
279 posts
Dec 29, 2006
9:04 PM
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The original post never indicated what these birds were.
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Ballrollers
540 posts
Dec 29, 2006
9:28 PM
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Thanks, chor, for sharing that e-mail from Joe Bob, which basically supports the facts that I have been posting for a couple years, now. Unfortunately, there are a couple guys on this site who are not interested in the truth, if it does not support the distorted agenda they are trying to promote. As I said, Joe Bob doesn't make a big issue about the color of his birds. He is not a color breeder. He breeds for performance. I am sure he is well-aware that there are a few guys out there who would brand him as a color-breeder just because of the family of birds he flies. So he wisely down-plays the subject and lets this family of birds do the talking for him....as they have done consistantly. So there is the first one on the list for you birdbrain or birdman or whoever the hell you are! LOL! (not you chor).
YITS,
Cliff
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luis
73 posts
Dec 29, 2006
9:49 PM
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O.K guys cut the bull.... we know were every one sits regarding this color issue.If posting 1 pic gets all this response i think i'll post one every now and again just for the fun of it.You'll fall for it everytime !!
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birdman
280 posts
Dec 29, 2006
10:37 PM
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Bird, what's your name? Where you from? How long have you been flying? What family do you fly?
Russ
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motherlodelofts
1233 posts
Dec 29, 2006
10:48 PM
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Cliff I don't know of anyone that considers JoeBob a color breeder , not a one, what family is that that he's flying Cliff ? Why on earth do you keep dragging his name up for Cliff ? does he know that you are dragging him into this shit ?
Scott
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BR Rollers
60 posts
Dec 29, 2006
10:48 PM
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Hey Cliff.
Geez is this crap still going onabout the So. Carolina stuff? I may not know much but as far as I do know Joebob doesn't have any of Don's birds.
Education is a funny thing, you can lead the student to the class room but you can't make them listen, comprehend or remember! These are the simple steps to learning. Cliff you are just wasting your time here trying to share anything as far as the birds that originated in our regeon.
I don't fly this family now but after seeing your kit fly I am going to throw a couple of pairs together this year to try them out. Cliff it seems to me that if some of these guys were in your yard watching your birds perform they wouldn't tell anyone about it...lol
As far as sharing emails Cliff, don't waste your time. They are only good for those who intend to learn something from it. Riding shirt tails comment is a good one! The roller comunity in NC is a pretty tight group of guys. We all know each other fairly well. I concider myself a friend of Joebobs and I am sure you do to. But then aren't we all, Cliff, Jay, Clay, Toby, Joe, Don ect ect ect. Ya'all come down and see us sometime. We fly some gooduns here and have a great bunch of Roller guys to boot!
Last Edited by on Dec 29, 2006 10:56 PM
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knaylor
403 posts
Dec 30, 2006
1:41 AM
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Chor, that email does prove the fact that Cliff has been telling nothing but Crap for two years!!! Reread his posts and see where everything in that email supports his claims!!
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dave
253 posts
Dec 30, 2006
8:45 AM
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Here's what I got from the post Chor posted:
1st: the carolina birds had major issues
2nd: they needed outcrosses to straighten them out.
Now, maybe it is these outcrosses that are holding them together. Take them back too much to the carolina stuff and they start falling again and then they need an outcross again to hold them together?
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birdman
282 posts
Dec 30, 2006
9:10 AM
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The message stated that the PENSOM'S that were sent to the Carolina's in the early 60's already had control issues before AND after the Lloyd Thompson crosses.
So if there was already instability in the original Pensom birds shouldn't the original birds be to blame as well?
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Bird
5 posts
Dec 30, 2006
3:42 PM
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Mccormick
How do you find a MUTATE? Better yet why would you want to? You know it's funny the only people who find mutates, or produce rare colored birds already have rare colored birds on their property. No I don't know you, and I haven't been to your house. But, I bet you have more that one breed of pigeons that are of rare colors, or you have a second family of "so called" Rollers of rare colors. Look if you started out with Quality Birmingham Rollers of standard colors, such as; Red checks, Red bars, Blue checks, Blue bars, Grizzles, Blacks, Rec. Red, Torts, ect.ect. your not going to produce any Ice Rollers, White bars, Blue laces, ect. ect. until you introduce those colors, or factors into your birds, How? by cross breeding. Years ago Frank Lavin had old Roller books from the 1920's. There wasen't one Ice Roller in any of those books, there wasen't even any rare colored rollers in those books. That was 86 years ago. Now all of a sudden their everywhere, but you know where their not? The people who kept their pure Birmingham Rollers PURE, their not producing Ice Roller, or rare colored birds. Why is that? Simple, they haven't introduced that garbage into their birds. Their more than happy with the performance their PURE BIRMINGHAM ROLLERS produce. Explain something to me, how do you find a MUTATE? it must be real hard, it must take real talent. Do you see it in their eyes? their feet? or mabe in another breed. That's it, hell, that wasen't hard at all. If it look's like an Ice pigeon, walks like an Ice pigeon, It's sure not a Roller no matter you guy's think?
Bird
Last Edited by on Jun 02, 2007 6:15 PM
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motherlodelofts
1241 posts
Dec 30, 2006
8:22 PM
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Scott, THE BASE FAMILY OF JOE BOB'S FAMILY IS THE JAMES TURNER FAMILY!!!! DID YOU GET THAT YET?
YITS,
Cliff
Myth Masher
(Yea I got it myth basher , stick this in your hat.)
Scott
"Thanks for the pics attachment advice. My birds are mainly SC (Turner/Greene
via Don Simpson) based birds. I bought them at Backspin Convention auctions in the late 80's "
Last Edited by on Dec 30, 2006 8:28 PM
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
995 posts
Dec 30, 2006
9:40 PM
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Birdbrain, first of all, it is Mutation. Educate yourself on what a Mutation is first, then I will answer your question. You obviously have no clue based on your post.
Second of all, the bird above IS NOT ICE. Ice is a totally different gene. Think Damascene, that is the Ice gene. The bird you referenced is Reduced. Since you failed to get that through your skull previously, let me repeat it again....REDUCED!!!
As I said previously (once again which went undigested), I don't condone the crossing of breeds to rollers for colors, but I won't discredit a great roller because of its color.
Here's something for your viewing pleasure, from 1958...nearly 50 years ago.
Last Edited by on Dec 30, 2006 9:42 PM
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jammerlofts
46 posts
Dec 30, 2006
10:06 PM
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3.00 a pair for some nice pearl eye whites damm i will take all 4 pairs oh thats right that was the 50,s dont we all wish lol where did you find that ad damm must have been an old digest maybe? i love reading them oldies some good reading stuff there
jc
jammerlofts
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
998 posts
Dec 30, 2006
10:10 PM
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JC, I was fortunate to have the opportunity to pilfer through an older pigeon fancier's collection of pigeon magazines dating back to the very first issues of the APJ. I brought a bunch home, including some very old roller specials.
Here's another one JC
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knaylor
408 posts
Dec 30, 2006
10:15 PM
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Scott you wrote:"Thanks for the pics attachment advice. My birds are mainly SC (Turner/Greene
via Don Simpson) based birds. I bought them at Backspin Convention auctions in the late 80's "
Cant be true because Cliff says differntly!!! LMAO
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jammerlofts
47 posts
Dec 30, 2006
10:46 PM
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i love reading that old stuff if you happen to find the time to scan a few pages out of a few books please email me some my email is jammer1225@adelphia.net thanks it would be great
jc
jammerlofts
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motherlodelofts
1250 posts
Dec 30, 2006
10:48 PM
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Brian, pretty doubtful they are talking whitebars as we know them, color genetics techs they wren't, they called by sheer looks.
Rosewing is what they called what we refere to as R/R mottles, the English called oddsides barless and many called dark Torts Almonds.
My guess is what they are calling Whitebars are a heavy grizzle.
Scott
Last Edited by on Dec 31, 2006 8:31 AM
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Velo99
794 posts
Dec 31, 2006
7:06 AM
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Cool Stuff Brian. Post more plz
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
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Bird
6 posts
Dec 31, 2006
1:47 PM
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Boy's
Anyone out there ever been to George Gullas, or Andy Janeczko's place? I have. When Gulla started crossing to obtain the rare colors he had, he never flew another Quality kit. All I ever seen at Gullas place was average to below average quality birds. After his wife died he pretty much kept to his self, he didn't want any company. As for Andy Janeczko, I've been at his place thirty times. During all those visits I can count the quality spinners I seen on one hand. I can't remember what year andy started breeding Fireballs, boy they were deep sloopy performers.
What where hopeing to accomplish by posting old adds of people, (who during their time were trying to do the same thing you poor misguided breeders are doing) If your thinking the names in those adds are going to help you prove your point, you have done just the opposite. Noone in those adds had a good reputation. They were just color breeders. Don't take my word for it, ask around the LA area. I'm not saying they were bad people. There just bad for our hobby. When you have people new to our hobby trying to start out with quality, and some breeder set's them up with white bars, cream bars, blue laces, ect. ect.
Then they join a strong club permoting the true aerial quality of the TRUE BIRMINGHAM ROLLER. That's when they find out their birds are not as good as they were told. You don't have to agree with me, but it's the truth.
Wheather you choose to believe or not.
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Bird
7 posts
Dec 31, 2006
2:01 PM
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Everbody
We can all avoid this, I said, He said. Just fly our birds. The cream always rises to the top. Neither side is going to bend. Hell Cliff's been preaching his BS for 5 yrs. He hasen't moved an inch. There's a time when the birds can speak for theirself. The Fall Fly, and the WC fly. Just see where you all place in the finals. Period
Bird
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nicksiders
1105 posts
Dec 31, 2006
2:33 PM
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Bird,
Who are you? Is it a secret? Are you Kenny Billings in disquise? You are somewhat hostle about certain topics and you know Cliff Ball well, but the funny thing is that I pretty well agree with you.
Weird ain't it?
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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nicksiders
1106 posts
Dec 31, 2006
2:42 PM
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The ads just give me an idea how long the color breeding thing has been going on. What else is it to prove; that because it has been going on a while the practice is acceptable? It should of been discouraged then as well and it probably was.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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bman
139 posts
Dec 31, 2006
2:58 PM
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LMAO
I think birdman was "hatched" by crossing KGB lines with
Scott C lines.
LMAO
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Ron
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birdman
283 posts
Dec 31, 2006
3:13 PM
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Hey Guys, some of you are getting me (Birdman) confused with 'Bird' (AKA 'Birdbrain')
Similar names but different people.
Thanks,
Russ
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bman
141 posts
Dec 31, 2006
3:19 PM
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Sorry Russ,
Your right was laughing too hard.Birdbrain is taking life way too serious.
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Ron
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motherlodelofts
1251 posts
Dec 31, 2006
3:21 PM
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Hmmm, I didn't catch that second add where the word "genetic" was used, I stand corrected , old time color breeders , kinda explains what some call mutations.
Scott
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bman
142 posts
Dec 31, 2006
3:24 PM
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I noticed in the ads BMC posted almost all of them give an address.Would you dare do that now!Different times.
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Ron
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birdman
284 posts
Dec 31, 2006
4:24 PM
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No problem Ron. Just wanted to give Bird credit for his own thunder. lol
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Jonas E WillieJAY3
1 post
Dec 31, 2006
5:28 PM
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Hi Guys
I am a new member and am already involved in one of the posts CONTROVERSIAL BLUE LACED ROLLERS The picture that STARFIRE has posted are the same birds I own. They may never roll but I dont care, I am breeding them as hard as I
can as of today I have the Third set of eggs. I have hatched two (2) sets of eggs buy useing fosters. Now if the young birds do not roll that will be a downer BUT they can still be shown as preformance rollers so all is not lost.
JAY3
KEEP THEM ROLLING
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Velo99
803 posts
Dec 31, 2006
5:32 PM
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Yeah whatever. I smell a poser.
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
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Ballrollers
550 posts
Dec 31, 2006
7:24 PM
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Scott, Naylor,
The reason Joe Bob refers to South Carolina birds, or Turner/Greene/Simpson as his source in not because he got them from Don, but because all three lines were developed in the 80s from the same Pensom-Lloyd Thompson birds. Don didn't get involved with the color stuff. Turner and Greene traded birds regularly and had pretty much the same line, and the competition was stiff between all three in competitions such as the Backspin Classic. Still trying to bust me, eh? You guys are sad,....wasting all his time still trying to pull isolated posts out of context and use them to invalidate me regarding my close friends in the hobby that I have had hours of discussions with; whose birds I see fly regularly and whose birds I am breeding, (I am breeding a pair of Don's Old Almond Cock line.), and all from the other side of the continent. LOL! Keep trying guys. So far, you are striking out! I can't for the life of me figure out why, when I give you information that has been passed on to me, you two guys set out to try to make a liar out of me. What the hell is that all about? Well, it's not working, fellas. Have you noticed?
Cliff
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Bird
8 posts
Dec 31, 2006
7:57 PM
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Nicksiders
Even though people say they can disagree, and remain friends, Alot of times that's not really true. I 'd kind of like to hold on to friendships, and still get my point across. It might not be the best way to do it, but it works. Twenty five years ago it was the dual-purpose Roller along with the color breeders. The dual-purpose breeders pretty much tucked tailed and ran. I'll give the cross breeden color breeders credit, they have balls, even though their fighting a battle they can't win. Just my thoughts.
Bird
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nicksiders
1119 posts
Dec 31, 2006
8:40 PM
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Bird,
I remember the dual purpose crap and they did move on and do a good job in denying that thier creation has anything to do with the Birmingham Roller. Show Rollers do not have anything remotely to do with the BR.
The color breeders have taken a side step and declare thier birds are just performing rollers and not Birmingham Rollers. That is how they are ducking the issues; I don't think it is a case of balls. They are throwing up smoke and mirrors to hide behind.
Just my opinion, of course.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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knaylor
413 posts
Dec 31, 2006
8:51 PM
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Cliff, LOL you are proving it all by yourself!!! I also think the Oulettes are still laughing about your Turner birds post!!! Look at all your runaround posts. each and every time you dance around you last post. look at your last one. For ever you have been saying JB has the Turner family and they are the best. Now you are saying he has three families?? which is it??? Also did you get your Almonds from Don himself???
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Ballrollers
555 posts
Jan 01, 2007
7:03 AM
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Did you get past the second grade in elementary school, Naylor? In fact, the Oulettes have been very supportive of my effort in this discussion, through private e-mails, to get the accurate information out there, about their family of rollers. Now pay attention here, Kevin. I will try to break it down for you very simply. I can see this is very difficult for you. Fact #1: Joe Bob has used the tightly inbred James Turner family of rollers as his core family for several decades now. From time to time, he has outcrossesd several other birds from other families in his search for the perfect roller. Fact #2: As a result of Fact #1 above, Joe Bob has several color modifiers in his family of birds. They are irrelevant, however, because like most of us who breed this family, he is a performance breeder. Fact #3: Don Simpson, James Turner, and Don Greene, as well as several other Carolina roller men at the time used Pensom/Lloyd Thompson rollers in the development of their families. Fact #4: Don Simpson was not interested in the color genetics and did not incorporate those birds in his family as did Turner and Greene. Fact #5. Since all three families were derived from the same core of Pensom and Thompson rollers, many men (including Joe Bob) prefer to avoid the color controversy, and since all three of these men live in South Carlina, they refer to their birds as South Carolina birds! Now that wasn't too difficult, now, was it? Don't hesitate to let me know if you still don't follow it.
YITS,
Cliff
Last Edited by on Jan 01, 2007 7:35 AM
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Velo99
806 posts
Jan 01, 2007
7:28 AM
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Cliff, give it up you`re a color breeder plain and simple. Remember this one. Your very first post on this forum. It just happens to be about "rare" colors and how to get them.
Given equal quality of depth, frequency, speed and body type among an assortment of patterns and colors of hens, what would be the outcome of bredding a Qualmond cock to these be? For example an ash-red check or a blue bar? What happens with Spread black, recessive red, Indigo or Andalusian? We want to Avoid Qualmond to Qualmond to avoid the lethal homozygous almond gene don't we?
Last Edited Cliff on Oct 21, 2004 9:29 AM
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
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Ballrollers
556 posts
Jan 01, 2007
7:42 AM
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You too, Kenny? Et tu Brute?.....A guy who has posted that he has an Andalusian in his breeding stock and still denies it is a color bird??? Careful throwing stones when you live in a glass house my friend! LOL! When you have seen my birds and have my discussed my breeding program and pairings with me, you will be qualified to judge me however you like. Until that time, you are simply joining the ranks of the immature, name-calling, guys disrespecting other roller men for birds they have never seen and know nothing about. I was hoping for so much better from you....
By the way, I see you have adopted the technique of pulling things out of context and making it say something it does not. The first part of my post shows very clearly that performance and type are my first priorities:
"Given equal quality of depth, frequency, speed, and body type......"
Why don't you guys give it up? Go outside and kick your dog or something...Tony, Jay, how about calling the dogs off!
Cliff
Last Edited by on Jan 01, 2007 7:54 AM
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Velo99
808 posts
Jan 01, 2007
8:02 AM
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Big difference Cliff,
When this bird popped up I had to ask what color it was. I still don`t know what a qualmond is or care. I have never bred for anything other than performance. Don`t plan on it. There are enough colors in the BR to satify my meager requirements. BTW it is reduced black,not a true andy.
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
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motherlodelofts
1257 posts
Jan 01, 2007
8:14 PM
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Cliff , no skin off of my back, but for some dumb reason I just figured "via" meant, that they came from Don.
(Turner/Greene via Don Simpson) I stand corrected (I think)
Last Edited by on Jan 02, 2007 9:41 AM
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knaylor
417 posts
Jan 01, 2007
10:51 PM
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LOL 2nd grade huh??? maybe. Since you are so familiar with the Oulettes Cliff how many of those Almonds do they still have and did they ever compete with them?? Keep up on the great posts too everyone is getting it now!!
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Ballrollers
559 posts
Jan 02, 2007
10:18 AM
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V99 (Kenny),
Hehehehehehe. I just love life's interesting little twists. Don't you? Here you are bustin' my chops and calling me a color breeder and all the while you are doing the same thing that I am; breeding birds with color modifiers for performance and competition! LOL! That's too funny! On one hand, you expect us to take you at your word when you tell us that YOU are breeding for performance; yet you will not extend that same respect and courtesy to other roller men who breed for performance with birds that happen to have a color modifier wither expressed or showing. Kind of interesting isn't it? That reduced black bird of yours is capable of producing the very same blue lace color pattern that started this whole thread, you know. Now wouldn't that be an interesting twist of fate, if when pairing your birds for performance, up pops blue lace or white bars!!! Your gonna have a lot of explaning to so to guys like Campbell, Billings, Naylor , Nick & bird, the "pigeon police". Breeding that mongrel blood and trying to say that it is for performance only...for shame, for shame, Kenny.
Now you know and I know that the reduced gene mutated and was found first in rollers, so it doesn't mean that you or your friends are crossing in other breeds to get your recued gene. But if you start producing white bars and blue lace rollers, no matter how good they perform, those guys will never believe you, no matter what you say or how much evidence and information you provide. Some will even insinuate that you are lying to cover up the deep dark secret! LOL! If you need any coaching in the genetics of how to keep those mongrel genes buried in your line, so you can prevent that from happening, I believe you may know of a roller site that can help you out. LOL!
Actually, Kenny, I respect the fact that you are breeding that bird. You see, I understand focusing on performance and type and paying little attention to color. I just paired 16 birds this weekend, discussing the pairings and the performance in their pedigrees with Joe Bob and Jay. There was not one mention of color or modifiers in the entire conversation, except maybe in describing the birds. The difference between me and you and these other guys is that I have enough respect for you as a fellow roller man, that I take your word for it; and I am not so arrogant as to presume that I know, better than you, what your breeding practices are. I saw that bird in one of your photos in a post a long time ago and knew what it represented (sure looks like an Andy!), but I didn't try to use it to bust your balls with it, even when you jumped in on the attack. Like me, I understand that you would like for your birds to earn the respect of all the guys in the hobby, based on their performance, and not the color of their feathers or the family. But I really couldn't care less what some of those guys think. And some day, some guy like you or Scott will probably pull that statement that I just made, out of context and try to use it to "prove" that since I respect you for breeding a color bird, it "proves" that I am a color breeder! LOL! You, on the other hand, now have a credibility problem with those guys, I would guess. You had better cull that bird and all its offspring to keep those guys happy if you expect to continue to earn there acceptance and respect, before one of them starts putting little Pinnochio noses on your posts and calling you a color-breeder who flys mongrel blood! LOL! Better yet, send that bird to me if he can perform and produce.I don't care what color he produces if they can perform. And you already know how I feel about the pigeon bigots! LOL!
I'm just funnin' with ya, Kenny....couldn't pass it up! LOL! You don't have to explain anything to me! But I hope you get the point.
YITS,
Cliff
Last Edited by on Jan 02, 2007 10:22 AM
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Heyyou
82 posts
Jan 02, 2007
10:38 AM
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Again, some of you are missing the real point. Color, say it with me, color doesn't matter. It can be as large as a canada goose or as small as a hummingbird no matter what the color. If it performs or outperforms all the other competitors and does it with the same technique as the "Real Thing" it will be crowned the winner and the rest of you go home whiners. Stop Knocking others birds until you see them in the air. Even the real thing looks good on the perch but should not be bred from until you see it or its offspring perform or you know the breeder and his stock. Again color doesn't matter nor does size.
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