Ballrollers
564 posts
Jan 03, 2007
4:59 PM
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Good post, Ken. Your points are very valid, in my opinion.
Nick....the switch is very simple....when you guys quit bustin' my balls! You just keep passin' my "worried carcass" back and forth between you, Scott, Naylor, Birdbrain, and now, Hartman. If you heave a rock my way (or at my family of birds), you better duck....It's coming right back attcha!! LOL! I'm not very good at turning the other cheek, I guess!
YITS,
Cliff
Last Edited by on Jan 03, 2007 5:00 PM
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motherlodelofts
1272 posts
Jan 03, 2007
5:01 PM
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Cliff , all birds have pedigrees !!!! even color birds, matter of fact you just mentioned such in your last post, They better have pedigrees or that means that breeding records weren't used , and without breeding records there is no way to track what is what , besides if someone cared so little about their birds to not even keep records who would want them anyway.
But there have been some that use long old dead birds and pedigrees as a deciding factor in breeding,they breed according to what it looks like on paper, of coarse this is what you are refering to and you are 100 0/0 correct and it's a nowhere road (obviously), I have seen a line of birds destroyed in short order due to it.
As for how many generations and how deep to bury the mongrel cross , not a frigging clue.
Scott
Last Edited by on Jan 03, 2007 5:04 PM
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Ballrollers
565 posts
Jan 03, 2007
5:19 PM
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Hey! We have actually come to agreement on a few things, Scott!!! Valid points that we can all take to the bank!
"If you follow either the color or the pedigree as a deciding factor in breeding, without flying out your birds and pairing for performance and type, it's a road to nowhere."
"Only when the mongrel is buried deep (no friggin' clue how deep) does it become less and less a factor."
Can I hear a "Duh!" on that! That's good enough for me!
YITS,
Cliff
Last Edited by on Jan 03, 2007 5:22 PM
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
949 posts
Jan 03, 2007
5:21 PM
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Ken Firl.Are you sure about those Almonds coming from England.LOL.I know you are.I have known about it for years but to hear the England fellows talk there never was such a thing over there in their rollers.David
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MILO
92 posts
Jan 03, 2007
6:42 PM
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Cliff.
Don't go getting all warm and fuzzy on Scott. We'll have nothing to read in the evenings. lol
c
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Ballrollers
567 posts
Jan 03, 2007
7:22 PM
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Milo,
I don't think you have a thing to worry about, my friend! It's been fun.....most of the time!...just stay tuned!
YITS,
Cliff
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kcfirl
28 posts
Jan 03, 2007
8:00 PM
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David,
I'm not sure about anything with these birds history. I know there were Almonds in Rollers in England. Beyond that, who knows. The guys that started these birds wer blue collar, beer drinking types. Some of the best were unemployed for most of their lives. All this talk of purebreds is a bit humorous to me considering where they started 10 generations ago.
Ken Firl
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nicksiders
1162 posts
Jan 03, 2007
8:55 PM
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The breed doesn't mean much to ya, huh Ken? Don't care to protect it? It is a joke to ya that there are people wanting to preserve what has been establish? Just because it may have been established by a bunch of unemployed English drunks it is a scham to begin with?
Well, that has me convinced. Screw it, I have always liked the looks of the Starling pigeon.....I am crossing it into my rollers and then bread the roll back in to 'em in about; how long Cliff, eight generations? I will call them Performing Rollers. Screw them drunken; unemployed Englishmen in Black County, England.
The crap ol' Levi put out in his books means nothing now. I have had my eyes opened. Those color birds are more attractive anyway especially to the young. We can grow the hobby with prettier birds by getting that color bred into them..........amagine what I have missed by ignoring them blue laces.......god the possibilities is unlimited. They will be so pretty and roll, too.
Weird ain't it?
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by on Jan 03, 2007 8:57 PM
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fhtfire
762 posts
Jan 03, 2007
9:08 PM
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Welcome Back Ken!! Hope all is well and I hope you have a great new year. I need to give you a call about something...
rock and ROLL
Paul
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motherlodelofts
1274 posts
Jan 03, 2007
9:21 PM
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10 generations ago ? what ol buddy to much time on the road with screaming little one's ? LOL , good to see that you made it home ok.
Scott
PS frigging pissed Englishman LOL
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W@yne
165 posts
Jan 03, 2007
10:35 PM
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Its so easy to say things when people are not there to defend there story that's being said. School yard talk. One thing i can say is that i do not know the colors introduced over to America in them days i was not around to back up stories. But 1 thing i do know is that no top flyer's in England breed for color or any have a loft full of almonds. Ive only seen almonds on the roller show circuit. I don't know anyone flying these colors,English men drunks!!!Lmao Now you guys are getting personal. Have a bit of respect guys come on.To you that want nice looking colored birds in yer lofts personally i don't give a monkeys shite what color you have but don't drag the guys that fed you into the gutters,Thats very disrespectful.
regards
W@yne uk
Last Edited by on Jan 03, 2007 11:03 PM
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luis
97 posts
Jan 03, 2007
11:08 PM
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Gentlemen!!!Pigeons have been bred for specific traits from selected stock.What makes you think that given the time and the proper stock you can't develop colorful birds with quality spin and type.Really guys think about it!!!With the proper knowledge,time and an open mind anything can be accomplished!!I'm not saying it's easy or quickly done but certainly attainable.That's how all these pigeon breeds were developed in the first place.Your preference is just that....Your preference,but don't blind yourselves to the fact that there are quality birds out there that are colorful.
If there were more lofts breeding for quality almonds,than i'm 100 percent sure we would have a lot more quality almonds out there .It's a matter of getting what you want and maintaining it.That's fact not fiction or theory or anything else!!
A little example on the topic at hand.
In Cuba were i'm originally from ,various Spanish Pouter breeds were introduced in the early 50s'.Quickly gaining popularity do to their specific traits,these various breeds started getting crossed to develop a working thief Pouter wich was a better flyer,smaller in size while maintaining a nice round crop and with better working technique.Due to the fact that just about every home had a loft and the continual exchange of birds from knowledgeable breeders,these feat was accomplished rather quickly and the "Cuban thief" was created.
These birds were a tremendous spectacle to watch working ,the cocks sometimes acting like hens to entice cocks to their loft and vice versa, birds so capable i have not seen the likes anywhere else.
So it goes to show with knowledge,time and dedication just about anything is possible in breeding pigeons.
Last Edited by on Jan 06, 2007 12:27 PM
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kcfirl
29 posts
Jan 04, 2007
5:48 AM
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Wayne,
I meant no disrespect to Englishman. I am greatfule to all the work they put into this breed.
I only meant that the breed was produced by outcrosses and breeding records and individual cages have not always been used in the creatio of this breed. Therefore, all our birds are a bit of a mutt.
And Nick, of course I care and said so in my first post. I just can't see getting worked up about it.
The thing to do if someone cared enough would be to start a new club with a code of conduct that includes individual cages and you can only have birminghams, etc.
I beleive if someone wants pure birminghams and not some crap, it is not that hard to get them, you just need to go to the right sources.
Ken Firl
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smokey
104 posts
Jan 04, 2007
6:02 AM
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good post ken. smokey
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