Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
1113 posts
Mar 20, 2007
7:57 PM
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Yes I agree.It was a good thread.We at least had one good debate before going into Spring.LOL.
Cliff.I had some questions concerning the new rules after I flew my first fly that was suppose to be in private but the person went to the fly director and made it sound like I had a problem with the judge.Which was far from the truth.Just wanted clarification on the rules.And yes I got a big run around.I came mighty close to never competing again.Kind of let a bad taste in my mouth tho.But I am chompin at the bit getting ready for this year.
Keep us informed. David
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Ballrollers
745 posts
Mar 20, 2007
8:01 PM
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Scott,
Tell me, as a judge, have you really and truly ever been challenged by a legitimate flyer on that basis? Or are you just funin' us, again?
Dave,
This makes two...."Depth of Roll" was another good one! LOL!...
YITS,
Cliff
Last Edited by on Mar 20, 2007 8:04 PM
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motherlodelofts
1617 posts
Mar 20, 2007
8:11 PM
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The judges call is final , that is a rule hmmmm , no we NEVER take any further than our circle , nor do we give judges crap , that is a big no no and flyer ethics, next year is a new fly and a new judge regardless of what happens.
Besides we don't make excuses on why they should be scored , it is hard to deny legit birds .
I think what the problem was here boils down to an inexperianced flyer not know what a good bird is supposed to do or not do.
Scott
Last Edited by on Mar 20, 2007 8:43 PM
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
1115 posts
Mar 21, 2007
4:30 AM
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Scott.You said in one of your earlier post:
On the 11 they omited what should be scored and left it a little more open for judges.
You are right.The Judge's call is final.
I remember now what Cliff was refering to about what the judge said.That was in the past and we won't go there.
I said I was done with the rules thing but I have two more questions I got to ask.
Why in the past 2 years or since the New Rules were put in place hasn't the Policy & Procedure rules ever been posted for everyone to read?
When I asked to be proved wrong why wasn't the OLD Policy and Procedure rules posted on here by someone?
I would like to see the old version before the new one comes out. David
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motherlodelofts
1618 posts
Mar 21, 2007
6:05 AM
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Hell I don't know Dave , nor do I care , maybe because the whole thing is ran by volunteers.
I think one problem is that you guys are a new region consisting of new flyers and you are trying to feel your way.
In the other regions the bulk of the flyers are experianced flyers and we allready know the rule's , so we don't give it a second thought not seeing something like this in writing on the website.
This one in particular is pretty much a non brainer to boot and really isn't a big deal.
Scott
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motherlodelofts
1621 posts
Mar 21, 2007
6:43 AM
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Dave , this horse has done been beat to death , now you know what the rules are so don't do it again and move on.
Last Edited by on Mar 21, 2007 7:08 AM
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
1117 posts
Mar 21, 2007
6:55 AM
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Scott.Typical post from you when you can't prove something.We will let it ride untill after Cliff gets back to us. David
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knaylor
468 posts
Mar 21, 2007
8:27 AM
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Dave, if you want to know what the rules were before they changed them just go to the w/c cup website and look at those rules. When the ychanged them they just made a mistake and left the part about not flying the same birds out. Its that simple. I am sure it will be inplace from here on out.
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1275 posts
Mar 21, 2007
10:04 AM
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knaylor
469 posts
Mar 21, 2007
1:17 PM
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There is no EC conspiracy to "hide" or "not divulge" rules, David. I am surprised to see you suggest such a thing...
Cliff, its not so fun when the shoe is on the other foot is it??? LOL
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
1118 posts
Mar 21, 2007
3:26 PM
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Kevin.I said I was going to let this ride but since you got started late on this thread I will reply to your post.
I am assuming you are on the EC since you brought this up.That makes 2 of you that I know of on this thread.Here is what Mitch said in an earlier post.
"The rules that you keep referring to only pertain to flying the kit at the time of competition. They are not the complete Fly rules. There is in writing in NBRC Bulletins, and I will find them when I get home, explaining that each person can only enter a maximum of two kits. If flying two 20s or two 11s than they have to be entirely different birds. I know it is in print because when I took over as RD for my region last year I did the research."
He later came back on and posted after he got home that he was wrong that they wasn't in the NBRC Bulletins.
All I am asking is Why can't somebody(especially the EC's)post on this thread these other rules Mitch was talking about that is suppose to be known by all flyers?
Read Mitch's last sentence.He did his research so where are they? You told me to go to the WC website and read their rules.The NBRC has been seperate from the WC since I became a member in early 2005 so it won't do me much good to read their rules.
I am sure you all will get it worked out and everything will go back to normal.But never be surprised at anything I do.LOL. David
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rollerpigeon1963
157 posts
Mar 21, 2007
5:34 PM
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Ok,
I know for a fact that one case happen to me a few years back about this same topic. So I had to get the old bulletins and look for exact wording. In July/aug 2002 page 4A it states the following!
"The NBRC Fall Fly rules for the 15-20 bird kit competition will be the same as the World Cup Rules. The By-laws of the WOrld Cup Roller fly
{adopted fall 1995: revised January 1999}
This was taken for the rules the following spring
1. A region must enter a minimum of 15 kits to qualify as an independent entry. At the discreation of the particular region, a flyer may enter a maximum of 2 kits composed of completely different birds as long as other flyers are not disadvantaged by the schedule.
Hope this is what your looking for
Best of luck
Brian Middaugh
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
1119 posts
Mar 21, 2007
6:05 PM
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Brian.No what I want to see is after the NBRC made a break from the WC in 2005.When NBRC said they wanted a set of rules of their own.This is the same time I joined the NBRC.Anything prior to that is obsolete.
I have never seen these other rules anywhere since I have been a member.I have never seen where NBRC said they were going to keep some of the WC rules.I thought what was published in the NBRC Bulletins was the rules of NBRC. Thanks for that anyway.It is a start.David
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motherlodelofts
1622 posts
Mar 21, 2007
6:45 PM
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The ONLY thing changed was TWO items within THE FLY RULES , not PROCEDURE , the changes were SPELLED out , and we voted ONLY on those CHANGES and NOTHING else.
Scott
Last Edited by on Mar 27, 2007 1:02 PM
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Missouri-Flyer
396 posts
Mar 21, 2007
7:25 PM
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This makes the 120th post about this topic, and I dont think David is any closer than he was 115 posts ago about understanding what is going on, and what hasn't or has changed..LOL
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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George Ruiz
212 posts
Mar 21, 2007
7:44 PM
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Dave please dont take this personal but I dont think anyone will be shakin in thier shoe's if you enter the same kit twice.
George
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knaylor
470 posts
Mar 22, 2007
1:02 AM
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David, you asked what the rules stated before the change. I told you to go to the w/c website ad look at those rules because those are the rules before they changed. Its really not as difficult as you are making this out to be... Also no I am not on the EC. Now my unwarrented advise to you is that the rules will state that you can not fly the same birds in both of your 11 bird kits next year. So you can kkep looking and try and find another loophole to help you score or maybe try and get your birds to perform better and score that way???
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
1120 posts
Mar 22, 2007
4:13 AM
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George/Kevin.As I said before I am so far from any other flyers that when the judge comes here I fly back to back kits.I have 12 kitboxes and come fly time I have trouble deciding which rollers are at their best.Even if I could fly the same I wouldn't.That is not what I am trying to do in this.What I am doing is trying to prove that even tho it was an old rule it is no longer in effect since the NBRC changed from WC rules and went to their own rules.
Now Scott would have everyone think that it never effected the Policy and Procedure part of NBRC.I can understand that.And maybe it didn't.
I want you all to look at this from my view as a newcomer to Competition in 2005.Actually any newcomer.
If I want to compete I must learn the rules of NBRC.No problem.I have done that.
Now Brian had to go back to 2002 in the Bulletins to find where it was written about this rule.So you see why I want to know how I or any newcomer is suppose to know that such a rule exists.Prove to me and everybody that this is a rule or explain to me WHY it hasn't been published in the Bulletins.
I am not trying to stir up trouble anywhere.Just want clarification and proof.Scott and others are dead set that it is a rule and I am dead set that if it is and never published it is void.I hope you all understand what I am trying to say and do.
Someone said after 100+ post on this I am still no closer to an answer.I don't feel that way.It has been a good thread and I have learned several things from it and I hope others have to.And still more to come.LOL David
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nicksiders
1493 posts
Mar 22, 2007
11:02 AM
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There are some real stuborn people in this hobby, ain't there? Geeeesssshhh.....
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Snicker Rollers
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dave
300 posts
Mar 22, 2007
2:35 PM
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David, since it is not written in the rules, you can try to fly two kits of the same birds this coming ff and let us know what happens. They have admitted that it was left out and the mistake will be taken care of so lets give them time to work on this.
Last Edited by on Mar 22, 2007 2:38 PM
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fhtfire
856 posts
Mar 22, 2007
2:40 PM
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The horse is down....Oh No..it is starting to get back up....oh..it is beat down again...and it is....oh my ...what a beating this horse has taken and it still tries to get up....but wait ....wait....Dave comes in an gives it the final blow....the horse my friends...has been beat to death...RIP little horse...
It will be fixed...so no worries......
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Ballrollers
750 posts
Mar 26, 2007
3:56 PM
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I thought I'd bring everyone up to date....After a solid week of beating the bushes, nobody has been able to come up with any Fly Policies that have ever been published...official or otherwise....nobody in the current or previous NBRC administrations that were contacted, nor any of the experienced roller men, either. Everyone seems to have a vague notion or recollection of something, as we have seen on this thread, but no record in writing. Confusion with World Cup Rules adds to the dilema. I was misinformed....although the Fly Rule Committee of 2005 DID pass a resolution to establish Fly Policies, separate from the Fly Rules,in order to deal with policies and procedures not covered in the Fly Rules, nothing was ever put into them. Apparrently the comittee debated and focused on the Fly Rule changes needed and getting them passed, the election of new officers, and the Bradley/Hester issue, etc., side-tracked things.
So it turns out that our good friend, David, turns out to be correct all along...the official Fly Rules are just as they exist and only as they currently exist. But the gap will be short-lived. The EC is currently hard at work plugging the hole in the dyke, just as many of you predicted. (And I appreciate that vote of confidence on the part of the flyers) I would like to recommend to each of you that, if you are aware of issues or situations in the conducting of the NBRC competitions that are not dealt with adequately in the Fly Rules themselves as they currently exist...contact your Regional Director, discuss it with him, and request that he present it for discussion and a vote. Ask your RD to keep you posted on the discussions and give him your input. Does your RD vote his own conscience or does he represent his flyers? Don't just sit back and do nothing...then complain later. You, the flyers and competitors, can have input into this process.
YITS,
Cliff
Last Edited by on Mar 26, 2007 4:29 PM
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motherlodelofts
1641 posts
Mar 26, 2007
5:04 PM
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Right about what ? if it is about taking adavantage of the loophole , it wouldn't have helped, it's pretty meaningless after the fact though.
Scott
Last Edited by on Mar 26, 2007 5:18 PM
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Ballrollers
752 posts
Mar 26, 2007
5:24 PM
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Scott,
He was right when he said, "What I am doing is trying to prove that even tho it was an old rule, it is no longer in effect since the NBRC changed from WC rules and went to their own rules." Actually, it doesn't appear to have been in any old rules either...at least there is no record of it that anyone has been able to produce....
YITS,
Cliff
Last Edited by on Mar 26, 2007 5:29 PM
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rollerpigeon1963
158 posts
Mar 26, 2007
5:40 PM
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Guys,
I will probably piss a few of you off but I have seen enough of people beating down someone because of others mistake. Can you imagine what a new guy will think if he had posted the same question as David? Man this is sick we have it in black and white! it's called rules and policies we all have to follow them in or daily lives. Someone asked a serious question, He didn't break any rules, he's not looking to cheat no one. It was just a simple question from a new flyer.
So how is a new guy suppose to ask a question without being made fun of? man if I was someone just starting out I wouldn't ask nothing and I might not compete in fear of crap like this.
I was at David's last year and I for one will tell you he never few the same birds in two different kits. If you don't believe me well thats fine I'm a big boy and can handle a few people taking jabs at me. But I don't have to say a word with comments made by a few of you. Man I can see why some people don't like the way the NBRC is going, what a shame...... I like to say its hard to promote this hobby with people out there who make fun of the new flyers following the rules.
I believe one of you said that a experienced judge or flyer that would allow it. Well maybe thats the magic word experience! I think if you flew in 2 flys would still make you new.
Men and women we really need to look what we are showing the new guys. Yes we are helping them but man we can be hurting a lot of them in some of our post.
Go ahead and fire away I know it will be coming but remember Will you be helping or hurting the hobby?
Best of luck
Brian Middaugh
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motherlodelofts
1642 posts
Mar 26, 2007
6:37 PM
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Cliff, time to move on as this excersice is completly meaningless as it appears the hole is being closed anyway.
Brian ,when Dave said he didn't fly the same I had no reason to doubt him, again all of this is meaningless anyway, did you get those tickets ?
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CSRA
75 posts
Mar 26, 2007
9:19 PM
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Brian i like that LOL
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gotspin7
53 posts
Mar 27, 2007
4:25 AM
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well said Brian!
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Electric-man
191 posts
Mar 27, 2007
7:55 AM
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No jabs here, Brian! Well said! The first page or so of this thread was very informative and interesting, but wow! I got to dreading, having to click on it, but I do, you never know what your gonna get. I'm like a kid with a pr of tweezers and a wall outlet. Just got to poke it in there and see what happens! LOL
Val
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