nicksiders
2456 posts
Nov 13, 2007
2:38 PM
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I tried to study and watch birds being handled at various lofts and I have found that there are those who are covering up exotic colors with checkers; bars; and grizzles possesing the colors normally produced by Birmingham Rollers.
Just thought I would say that.....to many this is not news, but to many more this is news. I am not going to espound further.
Love, hugs, and kisses,
Nick
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BigRiverRollerLofts
Last Edited by on Nov 13, 2007 4:29 PM
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3757
242 posts
Nov 13, 2007
2:57 PM
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Nick - I think this is totally wrong if they are hiding the fact that opal etc. is behind the birds that they have.
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Skylineloft
349 posts
Nov 13, 2007
3:57 PM
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FINALY,
Someone went and uncovered the biggest secret to are hobby LMAO..Nick
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Ray
Breeding Quality Spinners,
"One Roller At A Time".
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birdman
425 posts
Nov 13, 2007
5:38 PM
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By golly Nick that's good detective work!
Those vague generalities really make your point.
Keep up the good work.
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3757
243 posts
Nov 13, 2007
6:45 PM
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Rollerman - You will not find those laces, opals etc in my Pensom family.
Dr. LD
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donb
15 posts
Nov 13, 2007
6:55 PM
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Dr. LD , do u have Neible birds and if so , what can u tell me about them. ? DB.
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Ballrollers
943 posts
Nov 13, 2007
7:02 PM
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Calling it a "cover-up" is just another one of nick's way of twisting things to stir the pot. Actually, it just reveals the igorance of the genetics involved. When one breeds an indigo check to a spread black, he might get more indigo checks, andalusians (spread indigo), blue checks, or blacks. Many other modifiers operate similarly. Now, the uninformed pot-stirrer might look at that like a cover-up. Actually, it is just simple genetics. I don't know of a competition roller man that has color modifiers in his family of birds that pays any attention to the color of the birds, or pays any attention whatsoeveer to what others might say about the color of his birds or the need for a cover-up. LOL! Furthermore, the men I know who breed for both competition AND color couldn't give a rats arse about a "purists" perspective on his birds enough to "cover it up" That's pretty funny actually...what some of these "purist" guys will dream up! Their imagination in twisting things around, never ceases to amaze me! LOL! It's performance that counts....forget about what color they are!! That's just incidental! Well, Nick, you were trolling for a bite and you got one! LOL!
YITS,
Cliff
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Gregg
269 posts
Nov 13, 2007
7:07 PM
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Cliff,
answer my email.
Nick,
Not only are you trolling, but your also exposing what you don't know about genetics. If you really wanted to completely understand your birds, you'd pick up a genetics book and study the heck out of it. It would give you another perspective on your birds, whether they possess any "undercover" colors or not.
You know I am enjoying a good laugh on this one.
Gregg.
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tapp
469 posts
Nov 13, 2007
8:02 PM
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Gregg, That reminded me that a friend gave me a book, Genetics Made Simple, With special reference to Pigeons, by Paul p. Cook,JR, I'll have to study it some more this winter. It will even tell you to read it. And put it up a few days or weeks, And reread, and let it sink in what you have read.I still have lots to learn on the subject,I'm not a color breeder, but I have nothing aginst anyone that doe's. I've had some of the beautifullist almonds that rolled that I have ever seen.But gave them back. I have enough to do at the moment with the stock I have to fly Competion.It never hurts to lean all we can. Some day I hope to be able to comprehend all this stuff!!! May take till I die! But will keep on learning! Thanks for reminding me Gregg! Winter will be here soon. But first Deer hunting, and flying, take my time and Taxidermy, Soon I'll be back to studying! Very interesting reading.
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Tapp
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black_hawk_down
44 posts
Nov 13, 2007
9:15 PM
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Can u guys explain what exotic colors are to me? Isn't a color a color just like how a roller is a roller?-joe
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Donny James
105 posts
Nov 13, 2007
9:31 PM
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everyone is a color breeder there isn't one color in rollers theres red blues torts and etc.........think about folks ..............donny james
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nicksiders
2463 posts
Nov 13, 2007
10:29 PM
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Gregg,
I may know more about color than you think. I know that no matter what colors you put together in Birminghams you should never get opals or white bars or any other garbage. There are blue/black; ash red, and brown. If you go through all color combinations from each sex I know what colors the off spring will be; either sex and you know none of them will ever show opal and the "rare" colors color breeders like.
How enlightened do we need to be. I know which combination of colors from each sex will produce what color of each sex. Tell me how much more do I need to know not to be ignorant. Shall we talk about spread? I also know there is no matings in the Birmingham that should produce stencils, pencils, laces, white bars, and the rest of the crap. Tell me how much more about genetics I need to know not to be ignorant.
You can go to a lot of sourses to know that if the cock is blue and the hen is ash red 100% of the sons will be ash reds that carry blue and the daughters will be 100% blues. Is that the genetics you are referring too that I am so ignorant of?
Now, what does that actually mean to a breeder who only goal is performance? Not a damn thing....come on, Gregg.....know my birds better if I knew genetics, bawh humbug.
Nick
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BigRiverRollerLofts
Last Edited by on Nov 13, 2007 10:30 PM
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nicksiders
2464 posts
Nov 13, 2007
10:41 PM
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Donny,
You are only a color breeder if you specifically breed for a certian color.
Nick
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BigRiverRollerLofts
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rollerman132
158 posts
Nov 13, 2007
11:06 PM
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DR. LD
I think you miss understood me, what I’m try to say is you cant hide it under another color with out it popping up sometime down the line.
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nicksiders
2465 posts
Nov 13, 2007
11:14 PM
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Milo,
If you are breeding to achieve a specific color you are breeding for color......you know, color breeding. It doesn't have to be rare colors involved to make it color breeding.
Nick
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BigRiverRollerLofts
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gotspin7
455 posts
Nov 14, 2007
4:54 AM
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Milo, LMAO!!
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3757
245 posts
Nov 14, 2007
5:56 AM
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Rollerman - I can agree to your statement.
DB - My birds are directly from Bruce Cooper.
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Ballrollers
944 posts
Nov 14, 2007
6:43 AM
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Well said, Milo. Sometimes the obvious is not so obvious to some individuals. There have been men who breed for color as long as there have been rollers...the baldhead rollers and saddles in both red and black, you name it. Some men like some colors more than others and they are entitled to that. It takes a great deal more skill to produce a bird of a specific color, any color, that spins with proper depth, speed and quality, than it does to just take what you get with regard to color.
YITS,
Cliff
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Ballrollers
945 posts
Nov 14, 2007
6:44 AM
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Well said, Milo. Sometimes the obvious is not so obvious to some individuals. Those who throw their hats in the political ring, ought to show restraint when it comes to touting personal bias. This thread was started, merely to shout the hate voice of men who no longer post on this site for one reason or another. Color bias is learned from someone else.
There have been men who breed for color as long as there have been rollers...the baldhead rollers and saddles in both red and black; whites; grizzles; you name it. Sure one can have a favorite color or pattern; everyone is entitled to that. It is no different wiht the rarer colors and modifiers. It takes a great deal more skill to produce a bird of a specific color, any color, that spins with proper depth, speed and quality, than it does to just take what you get with regard to color. Though I don't attempt it myself, my hat is off to the men who can do so.
YITS,
Cliff
Last Edited by on Nov 14, 2007 6:55 AM
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nicksiders
2466 posts
Nov 14, 2007
7:17 AM
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"This thread was started, merely to shout the hate voice of men who no longer post on this site for one reason or another. Color bias is learned from someone else."
I did not know this, Cliff. You are a very tall man.
Nick
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BigRiverRollerLofts
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CSRA
452 posts
Nov 14, 2007
7:31 AM
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Guys thanks for the Topic very useful
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nicksiders
2467 posts
Nov 14, 2007
7:37 AM
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"Those who throw their hats in the political ring, ought to show restraint when it comes to touting personal bias"
I do not envolve myself in anything politically. I am pretty much an open book; nothing hid here.
Nick
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BigRiverRollerLofts
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nicksiders
2468 posts
Nov 14, 2007
7:53 AM
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Milo,
I can't help you, bud.
If I was to decide to only have red in my lofts I would be color breeding. I have decided the most important thing is the color red. Color breeding is not a bad thing, is it? (Moderated) But, that is OKAY. It really is.
Nick
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BigRiverRollerLofts
Last Edited by on Nov 14, 2007 9:28 AM
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Electric-man
843 posts
Nov 14, 2007
8:10 AM
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I vote we lock this thread! I can't see anything positive happening from this point!
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Val
"Site Moderator"
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Skylineloft
351 posts
Nov 14, 2007
8:24 AM
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Well Nick,
Your user profile says this,
QUOTE: To continue enjoying this hobby and stir up shit.
I think you have accomplished that one more time buddy.
Congratulations Nick
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Ray
Breeding Quality Spinners,
"One Roller At A Time".
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Missouri-Flyer
931 posts
Nov 14, 2007
8:52 AM
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You're the man Val!
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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nicksiders
2470 posts
Nov 14, 2007
9:01 AM
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Milo -(Moderated)
Thanks for the encouragement, Ray. I needed it!(LOL)
Nick
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BigRiverRollerLofts
Last Edited by on Nov 14, 2007 9:29 AM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1860 posts
Nov 14, 2007
9:29 AM
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Hey All, I am reading the first and latest posts in this thread and trying to see who actually makes a case for what he is saying. I am seeing statements made, but no explanations why someone holds a particular position and its value.
So unless you have some cogent reason for having the opinion you do and care to take the time to type it out and share it, please don't bother posting in this thread.
Then we'll see who knows there stuff.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
Last Edited by on Nov 14, 2007 9:30 AM
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yang501424
42 posts
Nov 14, 2007
9:56 AM
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You are right. For me I cover my loft with exotic colors. I don't really care about the name Birmingham as long as they roll good and they are a beauty so i can keep looking at them over and over. Who knows how many rollers out there that aren't Birmingham are being call Birmingham.
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1861 posts
Nov 14, 2007
10:17 AM
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Hey C, yeah, I know what you mean. There is enough info in the archives to research this topic thoroughly and still disagree!! LOL
See ya in a day or 2.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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Electric-man
846 posts
Nov 14, 2007
10:48 AM
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Hate to see you take a break Milo! All the good stuff will happen while your gone! LOL You know thats the way it always happens!
Just a disagreement is all that it was!
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Val
"Site Moderator"
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Gregg
271 posts
Nov 14, 2007
9:49 PM
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Tony, Nick et al,
As I just mentioned on another thread, I am just about done with my third glass of Carmenere. If you don't know what it is, you don't know what your missing.
Colors. What a heart wrenching term to the average Birmingham Roller breeder. So many trying to improve their particular families with so little success. I know that I will annoy and irritate many with my views but here goes.
While it is an old cliche, it is still true. Whether it be a car, motorcycle, dog, herd of beef cattle, horse, donkey, etc. They all have a purpose. Many come in assorted colors. As long as they achieve the purpose, expected or better, performance within the definition of that purpose, the average Joe doesn't give a darn about what color comes with same. Butcher that beef cow, skin same in the process and the color goes with the hide, not the meat. I'll bet not a single one of you, Rudy included, gives a second thought to what color that cow was. The only thing you care about when you pick it out of the meat case pertains to the "choice" label and your salivary glands anticipating same. Ditto the Kentucky Derby winner. Who pays any attention to the color.
So you ask, why do I? Only one reason, it is another challenge. I have been plagued by disease early in this century and neighbors and hawks after that. So after going down to a bare minimum, I started rebuilding my family. My first thought was performance, always has been and always will be. But I have been playing with the various colors for almost twenty five years. Some of the best birds that I had left were closely related color birds that are tightly intertwined into my family of birds.
I also thought that if I'm going to have this much strife in my hobby, then I am damn well going to enjoy looking at my birds when they are sitting on a perch because that big b++++ of a Cooper's is sitting on my loft waiting for breakfast.
So when I stick pretty birds in a wire cage to admire, I know that my colored Birmingham Rollers are as good as any performance family in existence. The problems referred to earlier only means that I don't have the numbers of same that I had in previous years. In time I will rectify that situation.
Does that mean that I breed only for "color" performance birds. "NO." What it means is that I will never turn my back on an outstanding specimen, irregardless of color. That would indicate a serious genetic flaw on my part, and as I tell my wife on a regular basis, I don't have any.LOL.
I can tell you that I have a bigger challenge than you do. I welcome that challenge and embrace same. I am in this hobby to do as well as I can. Given that dementia can overtake me anytime at my age(I'm still younger than Nick)I will continue to improve my stud of Birmingham Rollers until God says it is time to quit.
I will read the rest of this thread tomorrow when I am better able. On my fourth glass and enjoying same.
I only hope that you gentlemen are enjoying your birds as much as I am mine. And this is a fabulous bottle of wine.
God Bless.
Gregg.
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Gregg
272 posts
Nov 14, 2007
10:47 PM
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Nick, or is it Humbug, Bawh variety. Is that a different color of Humbug. LOL.
A couple of points. First. You are not an ignorant man nor did I imply same. I simply said that genetics can help your understanding of your birds. There is much more to it than all ash red young from and ash red hen X blue cock are cock birds. There are many subtle modifiers that can tell you which cock topped the hen with the questionable youngster. Within 99 percent of the time, I can tell you who done the grudge baby deed. (Grudge baby=had it in for you).
Second, I used the term "enlightened" tonight and got called a liberal democrat. I totally resented that comparison. Had to get that in, my cheap shot for the night.
Third, White Bars don't have to be opals. Reduced spread blue bar will give you white bars. Reduced was discovered in "Birmingham Rollers." Add another roller color, indigo, and you will have beautiful white bars that will be more consistent in appearance than any opal genetic trait. Oh, if you didn't know it, the Maggies that are flown in England, they are pencil. Dang Nick, you can't win for losing.
Birmingham Rollers have a number of beautiful phenotypes. Many of which are much better understood with some knowledge of genetics. I am not condemning you for your disinterest in colors or genetics. I am only suggesting that it would help you in the big picture of knowing everything there is to know about a wonderful breed of pigeon, the Birmingham Roller.
What I would ask of you, instead of just making an irrational claim that "there are those who are covering up exotic colors with checkers; bars; and grizzles possessing the colors normally produced by Birmingham Rollers." I don't cover up anything. Come visit my loft. I will tell you which bird is what and what it's performance is. I will also honestly tell you which are project birds. I call project birds those that are only 15/16ths or 31/32nds Birmingham Roller. Have to get them to the point of 63/64ths to recapture that mythical Birmingham Roller Soul. I digressed, please excuse me. My point,would you please give me some legitimate argument why you think that your birds are better than the reduced blue check that was one of the three color birds that the Fall Fly judge told me were exceptional birds and that I should make sure that nothing happened to same, ie, make sure you make good use of them.
By the way, I flew seven color birds in that eleven bird kit. Except for the reduced hen, the rest were young birds. The four other birds were normal "intense" colored birds that I used for fill, they were non performers. I scored 158 points. 60 points in the ten to 19 foot, 74 points in the 20 to 29 foot, and 24 in the 30 foot or more. There were two kits that bested me in my region with 260 plus points and 212 points, both of which flew proven old birds.
It's not about some mythical spiritual soul possessed by only by those purists who have maintained the only acceptable path to the Holy Grail. Rather it is about the ability to produce quality Birmingham Rollers and about your enjoyment of same. If you chose to fly in competition, fine. It is one day of the year, maybe two if you qualify. There are three hundred and sixty three other days in the year when you are sitting back in the lawn chair, swiveling around following the kit and totally enjoying the day, beer or wine in hand, and watching a kit work miracles above your head. You'll have to go a long stretch to tell me when and where it gets any better than that.
I'm waiting my friend.
Enjoy,
Gregg.
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Gregg
273 posts
Nov 15, 2007
6:58 AM
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Tony, Val,
Just when I start having a little fun, Val feels this thread isn't producing anything positive. Val, you might have to revisit thirty to fifty percent of the threads on this list then. If in producing positive you mean that the content is not in some way helping, educating or benefiting the Birmngham Roller breed toward some "higher loftier plateau" then there goes at least fifty percent or more of the posts on this list.
Be careful what you wish for just because you are bored with a particular thread. I find this one quite to my liking and could spend the next six months in a civil, polite albeit fun discussion of "color" breeding. The only drawback would be the time constraints.
Take Care, Oh, Milo, you are subtly adept at spreading it thin and fine, makes it go further and last longer. Smile.
Gregg.
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nicksiders
2480 posts
Nov 15, 2007
7:21 AM
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Gregg,
Your percentages are way too high. I find most, if not all of the threads in this forum to have value and are thought inspiring. I find most other forums to be dull and mundain. Dull and mundain never takes anything to a higher place.
Nick
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BigRiverRollerLofts
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J_Star
1262 posts
Nov 15, 2007
8:25 AM
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Nick,
Respectfully, I don’t know if I agree with you!!! Look at the past 12 pages or so and count how may posts of value that was posted ever since the pillars disappeared in thin air. Don’t be surprise to find that the majority of them have no substance or value to their content. I think this site is becoming more and more of show and tell in a classroom. How disappointing!!!
Nick...I see the writing on the wall for me my friend and my days are numbered. Take care.
Last Edited by on Nov 15, 2007 8:46 AM
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Electric-man
858 posts
Nov 15, 2007
4:55 PM
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Greg, at this point, I don't breed for color, but I read every word of every post on color! I respect you guys that understand it and can breed beautiful birds! Maybe some day, after I learn to breed the roll,I might try my hand at some colors! I don't know where this journey is gonna take me! I strattle the fence here 50/50!
I don't think that I would ever cross another breed into the rollers to get a color,but if all these factors are there,teach me! I want to absorb all I can about these birds!
The fact that this thread was about colors, had nothing to do with my vote to lock it! I felt that there were a couple of guys getting a little worked up, and there was no sense in it! There is plenty of room here for all!
I have always thought as you as one of my favorites here! Sorry,I came across wrong!
Forgive and forget?
Val
"Site Moderator"
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Alan Bliven
374 posts
Nov 15, 2007
5:25 PM
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Nick, there is no color standard in the Birmingham Roller because it's a performance breed, color don't matter. Surely you aren't trying to give them a color standard like a show breed. If so, I'm afraid you are standing alone on this. Performance breeds don't need standards like show breeds do.
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Alan
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Gregg
274 posts
Nov 15, 2007
5:54 PM
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Where to begin.
Val, don't in any way feel offended by my comments. As I have said before, words without vocal inflection leave many the wrong impression. I was trying to make my point but I had no intent to come across as chastising. Thank you for the kind words, and ditto, I appreciate you also.
Jay,
I understand exactly what you refer to reference the pillars. I have argued extensively with one on another site and am totally impressed with the grasp, skills and understanding of the other reference the breed. I like and admire both even though I have not met either man. I am hoping that some day they will be back on this list. But that is not my call. But I do have one question for you Jay. Do you remember getting started in rollers? I do, and there weren't any computers to sit down to and phone conversations in those days cost a fortune. You are sitting here on an open site that welcomes all, asks only for civility towards others and gives you an opportunity to help shape many young roller minds towards the heights of a rewarding hobby. You don't really want to desert them to me do you?
Besides, if you want to only talk hard core roller stuff, then you will definitely miss the human element to all of this. And this list would be all the poorer by your departure. Jay, I'm sixty years old and absolutely enthralled with the Birmingham Roller. I finally broke down in April 2004 and bought a computer. It took me months to end up on a list and probably a couple of years to find RPDC. I have learned alot and been reminded of many things that I knew but had forgotten. I am not one of the "gurus" of rollerdom, just a guy that has had some damn fine pigeons at one time and intends to have some more, my way. I am not trying to convert anyone who doesn't have an interest in colors. I actually believe that the breed is so complicated to do it justice takes years and most should not have the colors distracting them. But it is a very interesting sidebar to the roller hobby and one that I immensely enjoy.
All that said, I will still come out swinging when someone decides to take a crack at "color" breeders just because they are bored. I am still waiting for Nick to post that intelligent rebuttal.
And one caveat, don't anyone take all of this personal. This is a hobby. We are people who share a common hobby and as such should be striving to help each other, not tear one another down. Verbal jabbing is fine, verbal abuse is not. But it also helps to have a hard head and a thick skull. I've got both.
I'm getting long winded again. Stick around Jay, you have a valid point of view and this one room school house needs all of the teachers that it can get.
Gregg.
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Gregg
275 posts
Nov 15, 2007
6:10 PM
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One last post on this subject for the time being. I tried to cross a breed many years ago with the toy stencil factor. It was a disaster. I ended up culling the whole lot because of the complexity of the genome which consists of at minimum, three recessive genes that have to be in the homozygous state to express and at least three modifiers that need to be present to enhance that expression. It would take a lifetime to get that done and the results are not worth it. Some are working on that project. I've watched it continue for years, twenty plus, and the results are no where near what I would call even close.
Some of what I have in my loft are what I call project birds in that they come from people that got them from people who made the cross. The furthest out there was 15/16ths roller. I've brought it further along. I only have limited tolerance along these lines. If I don't see the quality in short order, I generally do what I did with the toy stencil project.
Most of my birds have been bred in these colors for longer than I've been alive, some much longer and some are actually from the original roller colors. The crosses have been going on forever, I simply have upgraded a few.
The one thing that I won't do is try to B.S. any one about the colors. I am a performance fancier first. I just refuse to give up the colors in order to be considered one of the 'good ole boys.'
Gregg.
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Gregg
276 posts
Nov 15, 2007
6:18 PM
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Hey, I'm back. Had to after I re-read one of Nick's posts.
Nick, we agree on one point, dull and mundane is definitely boring. You keep pitching and I'll keep hitting them back at you, when I get the chance. But you still have a responsibility to put forth some semblance of an honest argument supporting your opinions/views.
I have to go back to work next week. What a bummer. I am officially counting down to retirement, twenty months and some odd days. Sometime in the first week of August of 2009. Gotta get through two winters, the rest is a cake walk.
Later my friend.
Gregg.
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1866 posts
Nov 15, 2007
6:21 PM
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Hey Jay, I have to say this and I am not attacking you or anyone by saying this, but being considered a "pillar" on this site does not give someone the right to flagrantly ignore the posting policy and come at me with an intense level of disrespect that one of them did.
The other, I probably agree with about 80%-90% of the time. Never had any real differences about Birmingham Rollers, I guess when I put his buddy into the corner as it were, did he have a momentary lapse of judgment.
The difference is that when I have been wrong on the site, I have publicly acknowledged it, unfortunately, the other, up to this point, has not been able to.
One of those pillars (and he knows who he is) is welcome back anytime, onto the site with an apology. It's that simple really.
It is a healthy thing for all of us to have boundaries, and that goes for them pillar fellers too.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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nicksiders
2483 posts
Nov 15, 2007
7:05 PM
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Sigh <<-------------Nick's intelligent reBUTle
Whoever accussed me of being intellegent? I am far from it I went to a state school and majored in Business Administration for crying out load.
And anyway what has been said in this thread that would take intellegence to rebut?
Jay - you had better stick around my friend.
Pillars - Kenny Billings is still here, but for some reason has decided to mellow out. He must be getting ready to run for some office within the NBRC or something.
Brian McCormick has started his own site and won't humble himself to return. I guess he has grown and matured to the point he just don't want to mess with us.
Scott Campbell is just too proud to humble himself and return as well. He no longer cares about the ones who stayed and feels there is nothing going on in here to waste his time over. Didn't answer my last email to him.
George Ruiz has run away to some place and he was in here even before I was.
Ivan Hanchett got mad because nobody seem to care about the problem he was facing and the rumer is that he cannot participate in forums like this for awhile.....I don't know.
Al Perron - don't know what is going on there. I know his health is not where he wants it to be.
Cliff Ball is an officer of the NBRC now so he now believes that if he wants to move up he can't espound on his beliefs. He is very tall.
Joe Urbon I think does not find any of us who continue to post worthy enough for comment or support.
Dave Vang has his own chatroom and will not humble himself enough to come back in here.....
Many of the UK guys have made themselfs scarres. Wayne has his own site and hosts Dave Vang's chatroom.
Most of the other Vangs went with Dave.
Dave Henderson's twin brother (Joe Urbon) is no longer in here so he won't be either plus those of us who are still in here are not big enough players for him to waste his time on.
Kevin Nailer is having some personal problems so I can't say much there.
Paul Fullerton is not as active as he once was. He may be busy right now fighting fires in Southern California....I don't know.
David Strait seems to have lost his inthusiasm for any forum and I don't know why.
There were a whole bunch of guys that wnt away to the other site that have never returned that I miss; even the very few guys I didn't like I miss.
I am sure there are othe "Pillars" that I have missed.
Jay - If you don't want this forum to go to a show and tell then do something other than go away.
If all of you chicken shit "Pillars" don't understand you have a responsibility here than just stay away and sulk and pout with the other "pillars".
Nick
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BigRiverRollerLofts
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nicksiders
2484 posts
Nov 15, 2007
7:10 PM
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May be that I need to shut up.
Nick
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BigRiverRollerLofts
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Skylineloft
360 posts
Nov 15, 2007
7:29 PM
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Good idea
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Ray
Breeding Quality Spinners,
"One Roller At A Time".
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Missouri-Flyer
940 posts
Nov 15, 2007
7:32 PM
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Damn Nick,
your better than the 10 O'clock news..LOL
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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Gregg
277 posts
Nov 15, 2007
7:50 PM
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Nick,
ditto what Jerry said. You do get on a roll. I'm not a pillar, just a piece of untreated four by four holding up my little piece of this world, but I'm not going anywhere.
Batter up.
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Skylineloft
361 posts
Nov 15, 2007
7:54 PM
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Nick,
Maybe you forgot. This is a hobby. Most do this as there get away time. A time to enjoy there birds. When it gets to a point where its not enjoyable, (because some like to stir up shit) they will go somewhere else where they can continue to do what they love. These people don't owe you are anyone else shit. But keep on plugin Nick, Its what you do best. Maybe more will leave.
And no Nick, Im not saying that everyone has left because you, actually I like you and think you have allot of good things to say, but sometimes it seems like you just love to stir up shit. YES, IM GUILTY TOO.... but settle down dude. Is Milo next ?
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Ray
Breeding Quality Spinners,
"One Roller At A Time".
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Missouri-Flyer
942 posts
Nov 15, 2007
7:55 PM
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LMAO Gregg,
Gregg, I just want to make a comment to ya..It will be quick and painless....I have read and re-read alot of your posts, and just want to say..Oh yea, this is supposed to be quick..sorry...That no matter the situation, you are always polite, respectful, and very knowledgeable...Just wanted to say that it's nice to see some with other views, that are down to earth!..your bud, jerry!
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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Santandercol
1635 posts
Nov 15, 2007
7:59 PM
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Dang!!!I thought they had left cause a me.
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Kelly
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