Deadendkid
119 posts
Dec 01, 2007
10:42 PM
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if you dont why not ? if you do why?
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Mongrel Lofts
459 posts
Dec 02, 2007
7:55 AM
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Hi kid,
I do or did! LOL I have been out of the loop for 3 years now. Family trouble, Had to move and neighbors have me fighting with the city, Just crap that happens in life. I'm just trying to get things back together so I can fly again in competition I really miss it!! I would keep my rollers if I never seen another competition but you miss out on so much by not flying competition. It hones your flying skills. Helps you learn how to get the most from your kit when you want them rolling, not when they just feel like it! When you know you are going to have 30 guys standing in your backyard judging the quality of your birds, you work hard to put your best effort forward. Unlike so many will claim and clammer, the best rollers I have ever seen were flown by men who cared enough to want to fly for others and fly against others to show the quality of their stock and their hard work!! I have kept all my birds in tack and even bred a few that will move me forward in the future. I THINK? The test will be when I get settled at my new house and once again get to fly my rollers against, and with the best roller flyers in the world. What better measuring stick is there, than to fly against the best flyers in the world and compete? Brag and tell others how great your birds are? That's a joke!! Backyard flyers either can't handle the heat of competition or in 99% of the cases lack the quality of bird or the work ethic to fly good competition kits. LAZY or SCARED, or poor quality rollers! I fly competition because it helps motivate and move my breeding program forward. I fly competition because I meet tons of great roller men I would other wise never get to meet and show my birds too. I fly competition, because I like the judging stick of putting my birds up against others that are also trying to breed the best darn rollers in the world. I fly competition, Because I love flying great rollers and I enjoy others who love flying great rollers.. I could keep going, but I think you got the point! LOL KGB
PS. Here is a pic of some of those local flyers of the IRC, Idaho roller club.. We have 8 local fly's a year. 11 fly's if you count the big flys, WC and FF and you make any of the finals. The guys standing in the front with the cane, is Harry voth 93 and still fly's in competition. If I could only be so LUCKY!!!
Last Edited by on Dec 02, 2007 8:14 AM
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Velo99
1444 posts
Dec 02, 2007
7:58 AM
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Billings,
In the words of WayneUK. Spot on mate!
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V99
Keep the best. Eat the rest.
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gotspin7
712 posts
Dec 02, 2007
8:09 AM
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KGB, hands down! Man you sang the gospel on that one! I AGREE with you 100%!! Wow!LOL!!
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Sal Ortiz
Last Edited by on Dec 02, 2007 8:12 AM
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tapp
483 posts
Dec 02, 2007
8:18 AM
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KGB, I'm with Sal and Kenny on this one!! Good post,Great pic!
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Tapp
Last Edited by on Dec 02, 2007 8:18 AM
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
613 posts
Dec 02, 2007
8:59 AM
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Well i dont compete,,,
Not because im Lazy or Scared!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe lack of good birds.lol
The reason i dont compete in west texas nobody close to me
Im the lone ranger...
But definetly not scared.....Never
I talked to alex h several times but im too far off..
Peace
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RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
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WCWINR97
9 posts
Dec 02, 2007
9:12 AM
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WoW! KGB
Right on point!
Fomby
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maxspin
131 posts
Dec 02, 2007
12:40 PM
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Rudy,
Keep telling us how you are flying BOP free. You will have roller men flocking to you. LOL
Keith
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Donny James
148 posts
Dec 02, 2007
12:41 PM
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i don't compete is i give more birds away and the hawks then i keep for myself..............donny james p.s. i use to compete years ago and i love it
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fhtfire
1199 posts
Dec 02, 2007
1:35 PM
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Yes!!
Rock and ROLL
Paul
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PR_rollers
174 posts
Dec 02, 2007
2:02 PM
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... Backyard flyer's either can't handle the heat of competition or in 99% of the cases lack the quality of bird or the work ethic to fly good competition kits. LAZY or SCARED,
Ken you forgot to mention or live where there isn't a club or where he can compete period....and i ain't moving from here/..
Ralph...
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RO
116 posts
Dec 02, 2007
4:43 PM
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I love to fly in comp.I fly any fly I can.Welcome to the site Rod.
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Ro
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CSRA
634 posts
Dec 02, 2007
4:45 PM
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KGB i was going to comment on that but after reading that hell that is hard to follow good job keep up the good work
Let the good one ones roll
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CSRA
635 posts
Dec 02, 2007
4:45 PM
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Whats up RO
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Ballrollers
983 posts
Dec 02, 2007
5:09 PM
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Yes, kid...I do fly in the competitions....and it has been invaluable in focusing my efforts in my breeding program, in learning what is possible in the performance of these birds, and in learnig how other guys manage their birds. Kenny hit it right on the money. I can't believe I am saying this but I agree with him 100%! LOL! We have a nmber of local flys including the Backspin and the Burnoff.....long-held roller traditions in the Carolinas....and then, the big ones of course. I firmly believe that the best way to learn the hobby...and to move your prgram forward...is to compete.
Cliff
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WCWINR97
15 posts
Dec 02, 2007
5:19 PM
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Thanks RO!
Glad to be here!
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RO
118 posts
Dec 02, 2007
5:20 PM
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Nothing much over here Steve, just been getting ready for breeding season putting some pair's down and trying to stay warm.What's good on your side of the desert?
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Ro
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smoke747
42 posts
Dec 02, 2007
7:05 PM
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Man KGB,
THERE NOTHING I CAN SAY AFTER THAT. YOU HIT THAT NAIL DEAD ON THE HEAD,,,, AND HARD!
K.LONDON
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Deadendkid
127 posts
Dec 03, 2007
12:21 PM
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not very many willing to post on this subject i just wanted to know if i should try to compete or just stay to myself i was gonna way the good with the bad come on guys help me out on this on 3757 hector nick spanky tony electric man milo ezedad coyote birdman iceman you guys have any comments on this subject
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3757
368 posts
Dec 03, 2007
1:03 PM
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The times I competed with Arnold Jackson and Richard Luna were the greatest time I had in rollers. A great group and we all had a great time. The new PRC has the same rules and we are starting competition again soon. However, the logic that is used in some of the comments is not logical at all. Many of the fanciers have birds down from Howard McCully and other greats etc, etc (all backyard fliers), I guess they had junk according to the logic and if this is true you started with junk birds (not logical). Also, not everyone wants to compete and if they choose not to this does not negate the fact that they are not a serious breeder at all. I have competed in martial tournements but I know damn well that there are guys who do not compete that are just as good. Are you saying that Bill Richards, Jim Skidmore and Bellfield had junk? Bill stated they never competed. I was not going to comment but the logic here became unbearable.
Last Edited by on Dec 03, 2007 3:15 PM
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ezeedad
125 posts
Dec 03, 2007
2:16 PM
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Okay Kid,..
I'll try to give you a different perspective. Since I haven't competed in a while.
I know that I'll have a uphill battle after what Kenny wrote.. and especially since so many fliers cosigned on what he said. But it isn't a simple thing.
I'm going to say this with no disrespect to anyone, because I don't like it when someone is disrespectful to me. I just want to tell the truth as I see it.
When I started raising rollers it wasn't with any interest in competition. I just loved rollers. I had birds for about 14 or 15 years before I started flying competition with the CRS.. Later I flew with the BCRC, where we tried to improve the rules for competition. Later with the LARC, we tried to go still further developing a good judging system.... So I've been involved in competition.
There are a lot good things about competition:
1. You get exposure to what a lot of very serious rollermen are doing. This gives you perspective and an opportunity to compare what you are doing and what you have with the other fliers.
2. There is a lot that you can learn that otherwise you might not. Conversations, asking questions, observing..all good things.
3. You can get help from other rollermen. Most rollermen are helpful and will give you good advice, just as on this list.
4. You will learn a lot about flying rollers. This is and art. The ability to fly kits involves a lot of organization and you will grow in your abilities in feeding, and making adjustments both for competition and the weather.
Then there are other things that can be a downside to it.
1. First it can be very time consuming. Whole weekends can be taken up with competing. There will be a lot of traveling.. Competitive rollermen are the "Road Warriors" of the hobby. Getting up early Saturday morning grabbing that cup of coffee, and hitting the road.
2. To be really competitive you should fly multiple kits. This means always having back-up kits and birds to fill the gaps in your main competition kit.
3. Generally the rules give points for the number of turns. There seems to be little incentive for the breeder to focus on the Birmingham Roller standard. If he does, he will probably not win many competitions. Saying this usually stirs up a lot of controversy. Pensom said it 50 years ago, but little has changed.
4. There may be times when you will have to put your birds at risk, because after judging has been completed you
will have to leave to go along on the fly. I believe that the competitors should go see the other fliers birds..It's kind of selfish if you don't.
5. Some of your other responsibilities in life may not be taken care of as well. Things like taking care of your kids..and doing those "Honey Dos"..at home.
So you have to balance these things and be aware of a couple other factors as well.
Will competition make you a better breeder? Perhaps it will, if it is your driving force to succeed that is your main motivation in raising rollers. It can gave you opportunities to get a key bird that might make your birds better, but more often than not flyers become impatient, and start crossing this bird and that bird and by doing so are always starting over, again and again.
And to make things even more difficult, the BOP problem has made flying pigeons more difficult than ever. To be a competitor now your geographical area comes into play, and it is hard..almost impossible here in L.A. to fly during winter.. AKA "hawk season" Flyers nowadays are doing an amazing job, just to get full kits up and flying.
Personally I can't even think about competition right now. I don't have the time. Maybe when I retire.
Gomez
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Deadendkid
129 posts
Dec 03, 2007
2:30 PM
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much respect for you dad you make very good points and know i think i see a bigger picture of where i want my rollers to do for me
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Ballrollers
986 posts
Dec 03, 2007
5:09 PM
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Well said, Gomez. That was a fair and honest description of both sides of the coin, in my opinon. I'm not retired, but I am divorced...so, not too many "Honey do's" these days! LOL! That does make a difference. I look forward to seeing your name on the scoreboard someday!
Cliff
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PR_rollers
176 posts
Dec 03, 2007
5:32 PM
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3757 ,Ezeeda well said ...
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Ralph....
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Alohazona
356 posts
Dec 03, 2007
6:42 PM
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Dr.LD and Paul,
There was not enough time to respond to this thread this morning,so I thought I check back when work was finished, LOL.Both your responses were well thought out and logical.What we all have to remember is we are competing with ourselves,not others,and the birds are an extension of that.A balance is the best one could hope for,sometimes it works out and sometimes we fall short.When negative labels are put to otherwise well intended fanciers,what has been gained?Controversy?Controversy has been the biggest bummer about the roller sport/hobby.The problem is experienced fanciers who should know better keep bringing it up,it's just so ingrained.This thread is a set-up for more of the same.
Deadendkid,this is a sport and a hobby.Some lean to the competitiveness with others,some go it alone,it's as simple as that.There are competitors that will treat roller flying as a hobby.It's all in ones perception,there is no wrong or right....Aloha,Todd
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smoke747
78 posts
Dec 03, 2007
7:18 PM
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LARON,
HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THE 11 BIRD FLY RULES?
CHECK THEM OUT AND IF YOU LIKE THEM, WE CAN SET UP A FLY FOR THE INDIVIDUAL ROLLER FLIERS. I'M SURE WE KIT FLIERS WILL ALL GET IN. THIS IS THE REASON I WANT TO GET CA WORLD CLASSIC GOING AGAIN.
K.LONDON
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Deadendkid
131 posts
Dec 03, 2007
7:23 PM
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11 bird fly is great for a family of birds that dont like to break together lots of individuals i read rick mee said when you pick your birds for stock and you always pick the ones that stand out by rolling individual and not rolling only when the kit breaks preety soon you will have a lot of individual rollers he also said try to pick the birds that only roll when the kit breaks and soon you will have a stud of birds that have kit chemistry in there blood
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smoke747
80 posts
Dec 03, 2007
7:27 PM
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HEY KID, I USE A LITTLE OF BOTH
LONDON
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3757
369 posts
Dec 03, 2007
7:51 PM
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Keith - send me your number at ldoucet@spfldcol.edu. I would love to assist in the California classic. We could name it something else depending on the legality of keeping the old name.
Aloha - Thanks for your comments and your post.
Last Edited by on Dec 03, 2007 7:51 PM
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elopez
113 posts
Dec 03, 2007
7:56 PM
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Keith, as I've told you numerous of times, Get either going and I'm in....
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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Santandercol
1736 posts
Dec 03, 2007
8:02 PM
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Good thread and posts guys.I'll compete any time I have a kit I think might score a point or two.If I get more than 9 points in the next W/C prelims I will have improved!!HAH!We don't have much going on up here in B.C.,so any time there is a chance to meet other RollerNuts,I'll jump at it!!
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Kel.
Rum-30 Lofts
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ezeedad
126 posts
Dec 04, 2007
5:49 PM
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Thanks Cliff...
Todd, That was a good addition to the topic.
Paul G
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Spin City USA
1 post
Dec 04, 2007
11:09 PM
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Right on KGB. As I was reading your comments, I thought this guy is hard core, sounds like some of the guys I used to fly with in the CCRC before I moved. Then when I saw the KGB, I was like duh I should have Known. I have missed kit flying since I have been getting my horse business going. I am going to find a local club to fly with in 08. I have always said," to be succusful you have to fly the birds for the right reasons". Each flyer has to determine why they are flying and be true to the sport. One of my next projects is to make a web site for the birds. We just finished making one for the horses, you can find it @ academypaints.com. Have you had a chanch to read any of the old articles I sent you? Will call you later. Jay
Last Edited by on Dec 04, 2007 11:11 PM
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
311 posts
Dec 05, 2007
7:40 AM
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Paul and Laron, you guys summed it up for me ,Thanks.
Paul we never had the chance to fly of compete with each other but I did have the opportunity to see your birds fly at times. I can say you flew out standing quality birds.............Laron the S B R C was the BEST club that has -had the BEST judging scores,BEST focus and perspective that I've been in .(so far)Bird's of the feather flew together. GREAT MEMBERS ARNOLD JACKSON,GARY MORRIS, Allen FIENDACCA,(YOU) LADRON DOUCET , ART MARTINEZ,and Kinney GOWER ,we would help each other to be better and get better with no ego trip...... THANKS DUDES AGAIN
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
1181 posts
Dec 05, 2007
11:09 AM
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I do if the RD don't cancel the fly on us.Why do I compete? I like to win.LOL. David
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Deadendkid
143 posts
Dec 05, 2007
11:28 AM
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greed what about frank lathrop
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COYOTE33
20 posts
Dec 05, 2007
12:45 PM
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I appreciate your enthusiasm KGB
but i have to disagree when you say some are lazy or dont
have the brids to compete. thats not always true. ive talked to alot of big time rollermen over the years and from what ive heard and seen, sometimes there is a little bs that goes with competition. like paul said most of us have busy lives, if its not going to be enjoyable why take the time. im glad that individuals like yourself and others on this chat are expressing themselves,but everbody doesnt have the time for the bs that goes along with competition.
yes im going to take my crack at it because i know i have the brids to do so but if i see its not worth it ,i'll be just as happy in my backyard
coyote
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
635 posts
Dec 05, 2007
4:05 PM
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Good post coyote 33 and gomez
Like i said earlier just becase u dont compete
doesnt mean your scared or lazy......
peace
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RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
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J_Star
1398 posts
Dec 05, 2007
4:15 PM
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Rudy, That is just good old intimidation calling people scared or lazy. Just don't bite.
Jay
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Velo99
1445 posts
Dec 05, 2007
6:43 PM
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J,
Rudy is in the sticks, so to speak. He is gonna be in the loop with NM this coming year.
Keep yer shorts on Rudy.
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V99
Keep the best. Eat the rest.
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Mongrel Lofts
465 posts
Dec 05, 2007
7:41 PM
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Coyote, Jay,
What does some mean to you guys? Doesn't some refer to a few not all? I agree with you guys, SOME, NOT ALL have good reason not to fly in competition.
Jay what in the heck are you talking about, Intimidation? Intimidate who and for what. The kid asked a question, I gave him my point of view. In my years of flying rollers, the best roller flyers. The one's with the best kits and best individuals were the fly guys. The guys competing and trying to fly great kits. I have been to numerous lofts, you know the one's who only fly for them selves. The, I breed for the true champion not competition rollers group. Rarely and I mean maybe once or twice in 30 years have I ever seen anything close to what the men flying this breed in competition are able to put up. That's not intimidation, that's just the facts as I have seen them over the years. If all the guys you have met that fly good rollers only fly by them selves,, Great! I have found the opposite to be TRUE in my experience for the greater part! It is so easy to talk about how great ones birds are, Not so easy to fly and prove it! Its kind of like we can all talk about how great a boxer we are! We could be the next heavy weight champion of the world! Much harder to get in the ring, compete and prove you can be the next champ! Anyone can BS and talk a great story. Those days are over! We have a testing ground! A place we can meet, compete and show how good our birds are. For the rest of the backyard Hobby guys, they can set back and talk about how much better their rollers are, while the real fly guys compete to prove it. Show me, don't tell me!
That said. I think a guy should do what ever he finds enjoyable with his birds. Just don't try and tell me, you fly better rollers than those who are winning the big flys and expect anyone to believe it!!. 99.99% of the time it's just a fairy tale. And that's a FACT!! KGB
Last Edited by on Dec 05, 2007 7:46 PM
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J_Star
1412 posts
Dec 05, 2007
7:49 PM
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Kenny, I agree with your last post fully. Intimidation is not always a bad thing.
Jay
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PR_rollers
186 posts
Dec 05, 2007
7:58 PM
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KGB where does it say some?
Backyard flyers either can't handle the heat of competition or in 99% of the cases lack the quality of bird or the work ethic to fly good competition kits. LAZY or SCARED, or poor quality rollers! you answer the kid question right but you didn't had to put backward flyers down,..
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Ralph....
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Mongrel Lofts
466 posts
Dec 05, 2007
8:04 PM
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Ralph,
are you lazy or scared? If not that part of the post wouldn't apply to you. I'm not putting anyone down. I have met a handful of men who just don't want to put in the work it takes to fly good rollers. They like rollers, but they don't want to get up early and select teams and work at it. FACT! I have met others, that find competing stressful, they can't stand the thought of losing or not doing well so they just don't fly. To me, that is scared. If neither of these apply to you, I'm not applying them to you personally, why are you? KGB
PS. Ralph, 99% is not 100%. That mean's some, not all.. All would be 100% don't you think?
Last Edited by on Dec 05, 2007 8:08 PM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1969 posts
Dec 05, 2007
8:14 PM
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Seems to me there is a difference between claiming to have the best and saying you have good birds.
If a backyard flyer says he has good birds, he doesn't need a judge to tell him he does or doesn't. He can simply go around to lofts, hangout, talk and watch birds fly, compare his own birds to what he sees and if they leave something to be desired, then he needs to breed better rollers, otherwise simply smile and move on.
If a anyone says he has the best and doesn't compare/compete to others, well, he has an agenda or is fooling himself only.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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PR_rollers
187 posts
Dec 05, 2007
8:20 PM
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Lazy or scare... I made it to the Golden Glove .Boxing,I use to fight pitbulls,made 3 champs out of them ,, flying rollers is a walk in the park for me.. read your post you are putting people down ,,there is no need for that .you have alot of talent ,wasted talent when you start fighting with people here. I know you wanna leave a good name behind...work on your people skill..you have more followers.people that would respect you..
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Ralph....
Last Edited by on Mar 08, 2009 9:14 AM
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Deadendkid
153 posts
Dec 05, 2007
8:24 PM
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ralph do you know mike vick he sleeps warm tonight
sorry tony i couldnt resist
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PR_rollers
188 posts
Dec 05, 2007
8:26 PM
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you said 99% of the cases lack the quality you didn't say 99% of the backward flyers,,that is a big difference ..kGB
Backyard flyers either can't handle the heat of competition or in 99% of the cases lack the quality of bird or the work ethic to fly good competition kits. LAZY or SCARED,
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Ralph....
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Mongrel Lofts
468 posts
Dec 05, 2007
8:37 PM
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Ralph,
I'm sure your right about my people skills but Like Popeye used to say! I am what I am and that's all that I am! Respect is earned, not given for going along with what ever is done or said just to make people feel good. I'm not applying anything I have said to anyone by name. If you find it offensive, you must somehow see yourself in my post. I sure didn't put you there or mention you in any of my post. I struck a nerve without ever even knowing or meeting you. How is that? How can what I say have anything to do with you unless you found a shoe that fit? If the shoe fits, wear it, but don't blame the shoe! LOL KGB
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Electric-man
924 posts
Dec 05, 2007
9:18 PM
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Lets get back to the roller talk guys!
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Val
"Site Moderator"
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