Scott
1412 posts
Jan 08, 2009
9:51 AM
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(I'm not sure how many of you compete in flys....I have found that you learn so much more about your birds and feeding when the pressures is on.)
I don't think many realize how strong of a statement this is Brad,good one.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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COYOTE33
180 posts
Jan 08, 2009
11:33 AM
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great post brad and scott. i've come to the conclusion and i could be wrong but some families are not build for comp,mainly because of the depth. that doesnt mean you cant get shorter birds out of them but if you were to breed for shorter birds from a family of individuals with deep spinners would you damage that family? the next part to that is how many plona families that is pure have made it to the top five in comp flying. Tom what's your opinion as well as Brad and Scott and Thor.
coyote
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Scott
1413 posts
Jan 08, 2009
11:39 AM
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Coyote,a bird can only go so deep before the wheels fall off pysicaly and/or mentally , if a bird is not a good team player due to depth it is because it is mentally weak and can't handle the roll (stability) such birds should be culled,after giving it ample time to get a handle on the roll of coarse.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jan 08, 2009 11:42 AM
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Sunflower
169 posts
Jan 08, 2009
11:51 AM
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Scott/Coyote,
I couldn't agree with you guys more on this. I used to breed hard for depth but now I breed more for style and velocity and take what depth I get. It has shortened my birds up to about 20-25'. Much better for kit action. Found the deeper birds just were not good kit players
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
Last Edited by on Jan 08, 2009 11:52 AM
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COYOTE33
181 posts
Jan 08, 2009
12:31 PM
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How deep is to deep Scott, in others word how deep is to deep for comp flyers? Joe said a 20-25' is idea. i have birds in idividual flying start rolling 70-80ft. i know thats dangerous but this one bird came into thr roll at about 80 feet damn near kill itself. i lock him up gave him a week or so put him back with the kit wouldnt roll for a week or so came back into the roll and kept it at 40ft solid. i know the wheels seem to fall off at first but this dude put it together and kept it there, but would he be good for comp flying?
coyote
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Scott
1414 posts
Jan 08, 2009
1:00 PM
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Coyote , a bird in the 70-80 ft range is doing that depth due to control issues (there are rare exceptions) generaly such birds will fight the roll some and come out of it a little funky at best, all of which are big no-no with me.
With my birds such birds will generaly get a handle on it such as your bird did ,such birds are flown in secondary teams until they get a handle on the roll, personly I want birds hitting the 30-40 ft mark in my teams,not that all will.
But condition and conditions play in huge on depth and quality, if they are strong they will be shorter but clean, if right they give you optimum on quality and depth,over the edge and the quality goes.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Scott
1415 posts
Jan 08, 2009
3:39 PM
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( the biggest difference being it obviously takes longer to return if the roll is 50' as opposed to 20'.)
Tom, the best will only roll when the team breaks which gives time for deeper birds to zing back, I have had 50' birds shoot back to the kit like they were shot out of a slingshot,depth should not be an issue with any kit if they are stable and have the heart.
Once they hit a depth where they are no use all but the rarest bird is loosing the quality anyway which makes it a mute point
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jan 08, 2009 3:42 PM
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winwardrollers
87 posts
Jan 08, 2009
4:37 PM
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Coyote
I would say...Depth in rollers.. is easy to breed for..birds with control that roll deep that still kit is much harder.
I have always liked this chart that someone put together.
1.0=10ft
1.1=11-14ft
1.2=15ft
1.3=16-19ft
1.4=20ft
1.5=21-24ft
1.6=25ft
1.7=26-29ft
1.8=30ft
1.9=31-39ft
2.0=40ft
To get five or more birds that roll 40ft for twenty minutes is pretty hard.. then add quality on top of that it a good.. life time goal to have.
Birds roll deeper we have all seen them but most.. easy to manage kit.. are in 20 to 25 ft range.
Coyote asked "how many plona families that is pure have made it to the top five in comp flying". Top Five ..very few..very few fly pure plona compared to other famlies. Blake Coates this year got 7th or 8th in th NBRC fly.
I hear that the short frequent birds will always win the kit Competitions..that is going to be history...good rolling, deep,somewhat frequent kits will be the future..
Brad winward
Last Edited by on Jan 08, 2009 5:02 PM
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birdman
679 posts
Jan 08, 2009
6:09 PM
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Personally, I think the depth multipliers could be more accurate and I use personal charts for rating my own birds.
For depth I rate my birds using the following:
1.10 =10'
1.15 =15'
1.20 =20'
1.25 =25'
1.30 =30'
1.35 =35'
1.40 =40'
1.45 =45'
1.50 =50'
I like things simple...lol
Russ
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mcroller
265 posts
Jan 08, 2009
8:23 PM
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good lookin birds
jimmi
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winwardrollers
88 posts
Jan 09, 2009
6:33 AM
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For individual Birds that chart would work Russ.
But like your chart they are only half a roller.
B winward
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Mount Airy Lofts
860 posts
Jan 11, 2009
5:11 AM
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TF.
I had been flying the main team every 4 days for the past 3 months. Been very hard on keeping the flying time down as they sure get more than their share of feed / buffet style is more accurate. The skies have been pretty friendly this time of the year and it is holding true this year. With that said, I over flew the whole team a week ago. Put up 19 that day. Crystal blue skies and calm as can be. Temp was floating around 10 degrees. They came out and was just plain old flat. Circled low for a good 10 minutes before skying out for the next hour. After that, they disappeared into outer space. Dropping in singly or doubly from the North West every 30 minutes until dark. That day, I counted around 13 birds. All the old birds except a 2006 hen returned. Missing were the 2008 cream of the crop that I had added in this past Fall. Next day, the 2006 managed to drop in the trap with out me noticing. A day after that, a 2008 bird also dropped in early in the morning. Still missing are three of my top 2008 and a above average 2008. At least I didn't lose all the 2008s. 3 managed to mingle their way back after 3 hours in outer space.
The over fly was totally my fault. I had a planned visitor that weekend. I flew them hard 4 days straight. 5 day, good bye. Over conditioned them with the air time and feed amounts. Just too darn strong. Cold Winter with clear blue skies did them in.
I had plans on trying three of the four birds this coming Spring after the Big Fly. Just me luck.
Besides that, flying has been great. The waiting for them to land hasn't as we had been bombarded with cold front after cold fronts. 4 hour waits hasn't been out of the picture. As you know, flying is in their blood. Buffet style feed hasn't helped either. Back to the drawing board as losing the best 2008 hen bred really cramped any chances I had of adding more quality hens to the breeding loft.
P.S. Lake effect weather conditions can be awful, especially during the Winter. I run up to Lake Superior every Spring to do some Steal Head fishing and know this quite well. Man, 60 degrees. Won't be seeing any thing like that until May.
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It's all about the friends we make :)
Last Edited by on Jan 11, 2009 5:22 AM
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