Alohazona
399 posts
Feb 05, 2008
12:25 AM
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Scott,
How are your birds doin'?The last I heard you were building back up after an overfly.Sounds like your back on track...Aloha,Todd
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3757
571 posts
Feb 05, 2008
3:43 AM
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Scott, We are having our PRC individual fly's in September. Send me an e-mail and I will ask the members if each will agree to have a guess as this is in our clause so we can set something up.
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ezeedad
305 posts
Feb 05, 2008
6:20 AM
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Okay Scott,
Now I understand what you are saying... A very special two year hen... That's what I'm talking about.. What area do you live in?
Gomez
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kcfirl
275 posts
Feb 05, 2008
6:29 AM
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Paul,
I am dissapointed. I had secretly hoped that what you were saying was true. That some backyard flyers might have individual birds better than the comp guys. That we might really need an individual comp to move the breed forward in a way closer to the ideal.
So Scott says let's fly and you start talking about how you want to fly one of your muffs and how long they have to be?
The truth has set me free!
Ken Firl
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ezeedad
306 posts
Feb 05, 2008
6:33 AM
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KGB,
I have to agree with you. The guys who are successful in the big competitions usually fly a lot more birds. They have more than one kit. The more birds you breed and fly, the greater your chances of coming up with a star.
You guys who compete in these competitions have my respect for the effort and determination you show, especially lately with the increasing problems.
Gomez
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3757
572 posts
Feb 05, 2008
6:49 AM
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KC - It is funny how when we discuss the individual birds and individual champions some feel that we are saying that comp guys birds cannot spin as well and this is not the case at all!
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Otis
93 posts
Feb 05, 2008
7:26 AM
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Guys, I can't help but to go back to Tony's original statement that competition is a "black eye" on the breed as a whole!!
And that flying leading up to a competition because the birds have to be flown to be at thier best, regardless of the carnage inflicted on them by BOP is damaging to the breed! Wow Tony!! do you really believe that! In my opinion, what's really damaging is not flying this breed with the expected amount of flying time needed to have them reach thier full potential, then selling the offspring of these underdeveloped breeders off as the ultimate in a roller. Competition flyers are as astute as it comes at trying to preserve thier best birds in the face of overwhelming odds against thier charges, while still trying to condition them to be at thier best. Backyard flying mode will surely preserve all of your birds but will not allow that owner to see the ultimate individual that those same types desire and lay claim too. It takes heart and guile to compete with rollers, I happen to associate those who say they are "just backyard flyers" as the types who can't really handle losing something they determine as good and one of a kind. Not a knock against them, just how they are, but they cannot think that criticising competiton types that fly in polluted skies are the scourge of the roller world. My skies are polluted 12 months of the year. what do you suggest I do, start cleaning up my show cages. Not my cup of tea! JMHO, Otis
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2154 posts
Feb 05, 2008
8:48 AM
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Hey Otis, thanks for your post. However, you are mis-characterizing what I said.
Here is what I said that I think you are referring to, "...it is my opinion that competition has led to more good rollers being preyed on and destroyed because of the "pressure" by others to compete...".
To expound a little more: it basically harms the hobby/sport as a whole when SOME fanciers who fly kits and lose dozens of good birds each year to the bop just in order to have a kit for competition felt they had no other option or recourse but to take matters into their own hands.
Then the bragging and machismo starts and then the investigations and then the "black eye" when the government and media investigates specific high-profile fanciers and finds cause to bring legal proceedings against them...where the outcome of these cases did not exonerate a single individual that I know of.
This is what I am talking about. PERIOD You are reading more into it than I said or meant. Competition for competition is a healthy and productive endeavor but not the only method of producing fine rollers.
I think the general awareness and seriousness of this issue has grown to a point where many more fanciers than ever are deciding for themselves that perhaps preservation of stock and locking down when necessary will do them and the hobby more good in the long run than risking flying and training at ALL COSTS in order to compete to have good rollers (so as some would have you believe).
As to that other comment, to compare selling young bird pigeons from good stock and finding similarities to the above is totally laughable and simply shows your own personal bias. If you want to discuss that more, you need to contact me by using the CONTACT US button at the top right of the page.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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Joe Dan
68 posts
Feb 05, 2008
9:36 PM
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Copied below are my original posts that I posted the other day under "competition"... and they still hold true to my feeling on this heading too. With all due respect to Tony and others, I agree with David in that it seems like all who knock competition are never the ones who have been successful in major competition. JMHO
Competition is important as hell. Winning is one of the best feelings and finest accomplishments that anyone can ever experience. Competition and trying to raise the bar is what anything related to performance is about!!!
The New England Patriots are one hell of a team... maybe the best team of all time? I am not a New England fan my any stretch... but the fact remains the same, there the be beat the New England Patriots but we will never know because they do not compete at the same level.
You know what else... it's highly doubtful that there is another team out there that could in fact beat New England (other than maybe the Giants). It is also very doubtful that there is any body out there flying rollers that can out perform the top competition flyers in this sport.
With all due respect, I will buy into this concept of "competition does not matter" when I hear a previous or current winner of the FF or WC make this statement.
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Joe Dan Parson
Full Turn Lofts
North Texas
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Joe Dan
69 posts
Feb 05, 2008
9:41 PM
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I may be sending mixed signals... but I don't think so? There is a big difference in a "true fancier" and a "true competitor". I am by no means saying that there is anything wrong with a true fancier... hell that is probably closer to what I am too... My schedule is hell... I have to make a living too... and I am not able to focus as much on developing championship kits of performing rollers as I would like... it just doesent pay the bills LOL.
I am just saying that true competitors will make up the field that true champions come from. The whole concept that competitions are not important and are even detrimental to the development of the Birmingham Roller is what I do not agree with. There is a place in this hobby for all of us... and what ever catagory anyone falls into is OK by me. But those who are the best in this hobby prove they are the best by putting up the scores... not talking about it... and my goal is to one day be able to reach that status... I want to be able to compete respectably... with the best this hobby has. Without the competition component, its just talk. Many are able to get the talking part done...winning competitions...shortens that list considerably!!! Once again, JMHO
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Joe Dan Parson
Full Turn Lofts
North Texas
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ezeedad
308 posts
Feb 05, 2008
10:21 PM
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Ken Firl,
Sorry I dadn't respond sooner..
I'm sure that there are some blazing fast rollers being flown by rollermen that don't fly in competitions. I am also sure that they could stand up to the kit competition flyers. No one in this hobby has a monopoly on good birds.
That's why I agreed with what Ken Billings said. If you noticed he said that the "individual" flyers would probably win some of the individual competitions.
Breeders with only one or two kits should probably focus on the smaller competitions. It would be very hard to be competitive in the kit flies.
Gomez
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2170 posts
Feb 05, 2008
11:15 PM
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Hey Dave, let me explain a little more, as far as a one bird fly, recognize my comment as more tongue in cheek than an actual position to promote the tossing up of a single bird and competing with it.
I am not criticizing competition, I am merely making the point that SOME can take things too far (can you say bop?) in an effort to compete that hurts the sport/hobby existentially. Who or what pushes them so?
As for me personally, I see the value of treating the "hobby" as a sport through competition which then positions it like similiar "sports" involving animals, legitimizing it and providing more credibility in the greater argument seeking redress from the government for losses to bop.
I also see the value in a fancier who breeds the BR for the love of it and thus endeavor to breed the Ideal Birmingham Roller pigeon.
These are two sides of the same coin. Some days I flip the coin and its "heads" and other days I flip it and its "tails".
My goal this year is to fly the WC prelims this year and win, my goal this year is to also breed the Ideal Birmingham Roller.
The only problem is - is that I probably won't. :-( But it won't stop me from trying!
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2171 posts
Feb 05, 2008
11:32 PM
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Hey Joe Dan, I agree, competition is fun and rewarding. Once, I put together an adult league basketball team when my BB playing brothers and their friends would not let me play on their team cuz i didn't run with them (actually I was not very good at that point).
So I got my own team and guess what? My team BEAT their team in the championship game that same year. Yes, I treasure that, I laugh about it when it comes to mind, because they did not think I could do it.
Did I get better at playing the game? Yes I did. But it was more desire and hustle that had me playing up against better players in order to shut them down through my hard defensive play.
But I also just enjoyed going to the park and playing for the love of playing good descent basketball. AND ONE!
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
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Joe Dan
71 posts
Feb 06, 2008
5:13 PM
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Right on Tony. I respect your views and opinions! Good luck in the WC.
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Joe Dan Parson
Full Turn Lofts
North Texas
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