JMUrbon
400 posts
Mar 06, 2008
4:54 PM
|
Not being a Dick Stephens enthusiest I will go out on a limb now from hearing what has been said here and say that the birds I am refering to were the continental birds. If Dick traded off his original line in the 90's then they were definately continentals. JMUrbon
----------
J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
|
COYOTE33
82 posts
Mar 06, 2008
5:22 PM
|
JM i dont understand what you are tryimg to say forgive me if i read you wrong, but i know for a fact that dick didnt start with the continental until 98 and thats what he had when he died.
coyote
|
tucknroll
10 posts
Mar 06, 2008
5:29 PM
|
Coyotee,
You have the continentals now so does that mean they are yours to claim as the original breeder because I'm sure you have improved upon thier percentages? Stephens line of birds were not the continental line or we should be referring to them as continental/stephens improved line. Dick may have improved upon the line of continentals but the fact still remains Tom Hatcher created the line of birds period! I have been to Dicks on many occassions post and pre continentals still haven't seen it my friend but that doesn't mean that those that are flying his family old or new can't get anything out of them he just never did. Haven't you heard that some guys are better trainers than breeders and vica versa. That may be what implies here for what its worth.
|
JMUrbon
401 posts
Mar 06, 2008
5:30 PM
|
Coyote I was refering to your post that stated he got rid of his old line in the 90's. Actually the one group of birds I am refering to were around 2000. I really dont care when he got the continentals but the birds I seen in 2000 were really not good birds. For a novice or a seasoned flier. I have been flying for nearly 30 years and you couldnt have given me the whole bunch for 5 bucks. They were crap. Joe
----------
J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
|
JMUrbon
402 posts
Mar 06, 2008
5:43 PM
|
Coyote, I am not saying at all that all of the continentals were crap because as you well know culls come out of every loft. I just know for the amount of money that was spent on these particular birds there should have been at least one good bird and they were all destined to be fosters , and that was eventually were they ended up in order to justify the money spent on them. JMUrbon
----------
J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
|
COYOTE33
83 posts
Mar 06, 2008
5:56 PM
|
tucknroll
the answer is no i dont put no claim to fame,i give all credit were credit is due. i didnt create this family, infact i have my on plona's i received from dick nauer some years ago and they are untouched. dick stephen's and i were good friends and he wanted me to have the continentals he had,at first i didnt even buy any of them until some friends of mine told me about them, thats when i got interested. i think they are a fine family of birds,they remined me of the plona family i have and if you were a friend i would do the same for you.thankfully we had guys like tom and dick and pensom,plona and smith by why bad mouth them when they are gone.
JM if thats the way you fill you have every right to fill that way,i was just trying to give you a time table of when he had certain birds.
coyote
|
George R.
273 posts
Mar 06, 2008
6:07 PM
|
I will have to agree with Joe and Scott on this one !
In 2002 in purchused 6 pair from Dick and I made the mistake of NOT flying them and did what everybody says FLY THE YOUNG .
Well let me just say that after 2 seasons of flying and breeding those Birds that were Continintals with all kind of CHAMPIONS on the pedigrees I finally realized that those were not the Birds for ME.
I tried everything to get them to spin and break as a team but I was met with NEGATIVE results.
I know it was not the training because I had BOB SCOTT birds at the same time and I had no problem with them other then them flying high after about 6 months and having to starve them to get them to ROLL and the FREQUENCY SUCKED.
This was a VAULAUBLE lesson and thats why I will never BREED from a Bird I did not see Fly in the AIR.
And who bred the bird does not matter EVERYONE breeds CULLS and thats why I always tell everyone to FLY out any Bird you are considering for stock regardless of what the Person that you buy the Birds from tells you to do ( dont fly them ,fly the young from them ) with the Birds.
Last Edited by on Mar 06, 2008 7:30 PM
|
COYOTE33
84 posts
Mar 06, 2008
6:21 PM
|
GeorgeR
i know a gentleman in NC that felt about the same as you did,he told me he got a little frustrated at first but now he is glad he waited. during the convention last year the attendees saw his kit fly and most commented on how nice his kit was , they were continentals! so everybody is different.
coyote
Last Edited by on Mar 06, 2008 6:29 PM
|
George R.
276 posts
Mar 06, 2008
6:29 PM
|
Coyote
Thats Good and I understand , but I would never tell anyone to BUY, GET, WASTE FEED ON, any CONTINENTALS but that still dont mean they are JUNK I just would not steer anyone in that Direction.
Also remember I still own 1 Cock that has produced on 7 different hens , but it will never breed into the Family of Birds I fly now and the paper (pedigree) that came with it how can I put any faith in that piece of paper.
Last Edited by on Mar 06, 2008 6:30 PM
|
Scott
151 posts
Mar 06, 2008
6:53 PM
|
O.K. Coyote, enough of this , here is my advise for what it is worth.
What you have to do it quit thinking of these are this or these are that.
You have to find out what your producers are ,and then test thier prodigy to see if there is potency is there also.
I suggest that you put the pedigrees away as they will do you nothing but harm at this point.
Once you find these key birds most probaby it will leave you with a small handful if you are lucky,if you don't find any then quit wasting time and search out others,the main thing is always be honest and realistic with yourself..
If you are lucky and find a few true producers, Those will be the core and will give you a path,everything else you use as fosters as that is all they are good for, I don't care how many times "champian" is written on the pedigree.
What I just wrote above is how it works with ANY family when you are starting out,just because it has a name behind doesn't give it any value what so ever,ony you can find if it has value or not.
I might add that it take quite a few years to work it all out and figure out your direction , but that is the joy of these birds, nothing comes easy or fast.
Well there you go buddy, so simple and yet so hard for many, it certainly took me a while.
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
|
COYOTE33
85 posts
Mar 06, 2008
6:54 PM
|
georgeR
can you tell me a little more about that cock that produced
on seven different hens. is it the pedigree that was posted earlier with tommy tahoe as the grand father. me and my friend from NC would like to know.
coyote
|
Scott
152 posts
Mar 06, 2008
7:01 PM
|
GeorgeR
i know a gentleman in NC that felt about the same as you did,he told me he got a little frustrated at first but now he is glad he waited. during the convention last year the attendees saw his kit fly and most commented on how nice his kit was , they were continentals! so everybody is different.
coyote
Who was this ? I was there and didn't see any good kits (mainly due to moult) but I did miss one that I was told was a decent kit
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
|
George R.
278 posts
Mar 06, 2008
7:06 PM
|
Coyote
I will post up the pedigree , the ped on the other post is supposed to be the grand parent
|
COYOTE33
86 posts
Mar 06, 2008
7:09 PM
|
scott!
that might be the kit you missed in fact im talking to gregg truesdale as i type, you might of missed his fly!
coyote
|
Scott
154 posts
Mar 06, 2008
7:12 PM
|
Yep , that is the one I missed, read what I wrote above and then ask him what he did.
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
|
George R.
281 posts
Mar 06, 2008
7:12 PM
|
Coyote take Scotts advise he,s a Stand Up guy and would never give you no BUNK advise.
And remember if your HAPPY with the Birds then all is GOOD.
Question ... Have you ever gone Kieth Londons house to see his Birds ??
|
COYOTE33
87 posts
Mar 06, 2008
7:21 PM
|
scott
he said he flew twice that tues feed up for tues and weds on tues then rested them on weds and thurs he feed stright milo 9:00am thurs morning 3/4 then flew on friday for the convention
coyote
ps this isnt for everybody
|
COYOTE33
88 posts
Mar 06, 2008
7:27 PM
|
georgeR
yes i have been to keith house, actually i was at a icrc show when he had the connection he flew from his house and what i could see from the show keith has good kits.
coyote
|
COYOTE33
89 posts
Mar 06, 2008
7:43 PM
|
scott
i appreciate your advice but im not new to this game, ive had rollers since i was 13 im almost fifty, there is some truth to what you say,but i know good rollers when i see one. when i was a teen i visited cornell many times i've known rayvon since i was a kid not to drop names but i have learned from different people and thats not to say i cant learn from you,i just happen to be good friends with dick as well.
coyote
ps ooh! dont let me forget my good friend paul gomez i got one of my first kits from paul back in the day.
|
George R.
288 posts
Mar 06, 2008
7:46 PM
|
coyote iwas there too and believe me kieths Birds were not prepped for a Competition .
go when he flys in a Comp and you will have a good time.
|
Scott
156 posts
Mar 06, 2008
7:52 PM
|
Some truth ? there is no other way,good luck.
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Mar 06, 2008 7:53 PM
|
PR_rollers
649 posts
Mar 06, 2008
8:14 PM
|
Coyote how you doing? I see this going around in circles again
and once again I must say from reading George R story ,It is the same familiar story with me.I got these birds in the year 2000 too they must have been continentals too because some of the birds in the pedigrees were from the book by Tom Hatcher The Last Of The great and The next generation birds like Cadillac Jack to Good dreams I remember because i was excited that these birds that i received were sons or grandson to these Champions..
from what you posted to JM.
quote
"could it be that these newbies just couldnt handle the strain? pensom rollers are a very strong strain that's one of the reason dick went to tom hatcher continental line and he said this himself. people just have time to wait anymore especially with the hawk problems we have, so maybe the strain was not for newbies " ----------I waited 5 to 7 years and nothing pure junk but they kitted well thats no lie but no roll ,now if you keep hearing about all these people talking about how these birds they got from Dick were nothing but Pedigrees paper birds why is it so hard to believe..I swear i remember trying everything to make these birds roll and nothing.. I thought i was failure and wanted to throw in the towel .Lucky I had another different family and saw the roll in the other that i didn't see on these so i knew it wasn't me..thats why now i have to see a bird fly before i stock it.they tell me fly the youngsters ,I don't have the time to waste i rather waste the money but not my time.I can replace money but i can't replace the time i lost.. that was a lesson for me with those birds because i lost time and money.. but if those birds you have now are doing you great .by all mean you got a good hold on them keep them flying and give some thought on what Scott posted .that last post was a very good post..
..
----------
Ralph....
|
George R.
293 posts
Mar 06, 2008
8:31 PM
|
hey Ralph thanks for cosigning for ME
|
COYOTE33
90 posts
Mar 06, 2008
9:41 PM
|
hello PR
yeh! im getting tired of going round and round and im sorry you feel that way and had to experience that problem. i think i would of been upset too. im going to remember you guys experience and take it into account, however there are a lot of guys that will swear by them and i have to take them in account as well. most of the guys i talk to mention that how you feed the continentals is vital, so i'll take all those things in account. thanks PR
coyote
Last Edited by on Mar 06, 2008 9:43 PM
|
George R.
309 posts
Mar 06, 2008
9:45 PM
|
Good luck COYOTE keep us posted on your progress
I hope you wernt offended in any way , I just wanted to share my expeirence with that strain of Birds
|
MILO
902 posts
Mar 24, 2008
8:17 AM
|
Brad.
Ran into Frank Martin at Easter Mass. He laughed when I asked him about the 51 birds. Said they are long gone, but would be more than happy to discuss them. Says someone called him, but never left a phone number. Was it you? Try calling him again.
c
|