kcfirl
356 posts
Mar 11, 2008
9:24 AM
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Cliff,
good post and I agree with all you've said above except the part where you say the bird has to "spin" 10 ft to score. I have seen may birds scored that were not "spinning". At least in my subjective estimation.
regards,
Ken
PS. Chan Grover's photo album from the 40's has many yellows, muffed or booted, and even a few crested birds in it. They are all either owned by Pensom or those close to him from his birds. Also, the vast majority of the birds have some white on them somewhere - very, very few self birds.
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colinb
44 posts
Mar 11, 2008
12:49 PM
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these are not true Birmingham's we say thay were west of
england tumblers thay don't spin thay joist tumble
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Mongrel Lofts
542 posts
Mar 11, 2008
1:08 PM
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Chan Grover's photo album from the 40's has many yellows, muffed or booted, and even a few crested birds in it. They are all either owned by Pensom or those close to him from his birds. Also, the vast majority of the birds have some white on them somewhere - very, very few self birds.
Ken F.
I was at Chan's and seen his crested yellow and dilute dun bars.. They were not of the Pensom stock but were birds from the Lez Mann's birds.. American roller related.. Dilute and muffed was and is in the Birmingham roller.. Crest I guess could be through the Dutch tumbler they suspect coulrossbreeding pigeons to enhance their rolling ability.}}}
So don't be confused you young guys.. The old timers were not crossing breeds based on pretty color.. They were crossing performance breeds to create the greatest Roller known on the planet.. The Birmingham roller!!
Last Edited by on Mar 11, 2008 1:12 PM
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kcfirl
357 posts
Mar 11, 2008
3:44 PM
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Mongrel,
I'm not talking about birds that you saw at Chan;s house.
I'm talking about birds in lofts in England.
Would I breed a yellow or a crested bird? No, unless I saw a family of them that were better spinners than what I have.
Have guys croseed birds with BR's? Of course they have.
Does that mean every crested roller is a cross? No it doesn't.
The photos in Chan's album proves it to me.
Regards,
Ken Firl
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Mongrel Lofts
543 posts
Mar 11, 2008
4:03 PM
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Hi Ken F,
You are correct. I should have said I seen them Less Manz birds around 1981 anyway.. I will be looking for a crested muff to pop in my Pensom line's any day now. LOL
Man the weather is great.. My birds were rocking today.. To bad they are not a team. They have been flying together about 2 weeks.. The timing sucks.. How can a guy have 20 rollers and they all roll, but not together? Baffling isn't it? LOL We have our first club fly for 2008 Saturday. I expect the guys to see some nice rollers, but few breaks.. I have two months though. Enough time to get them to gel I hope..
Hey, I ran into a couple pair of Ken Easly Breeders by accident. A huge number of the guys around here are going with the Starlet line.. Some of them are rockets! I think I will breed a couple rounds off them. I love flying other good families just to compare and learn. You never know when you might find something so good, it changes your direction.
How are the Ken E. birds working out for you Ken? Are you breeding all pure Easily/Starley now or are you still doing some crossing with the Kiser/Borges birds? How do the compare to the jacconetts you used to fly? Are they harder or easier to handle? Just fishing for information Ken F. Thanks KGB
PS. I probably should have started a new thread with this.
Last Edited by on Mar 11, 2008 4:07 PM
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George R.
345 posts
Mar 11, 2008
5:58 PM
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Ken
those are OLD ENGLISH TUMBLERS I just thought maybe some one would like to cross them on there birmingham rollers.
you should see how many Emails I got asking if they are for Sale LOL
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ezeedad
359 posts
Mar 11, 2008
6:15 PM
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George,
I ve noticed that you like to start topics that tend to polarize some of the guys. Be that as is may, I had some pure Pensom muffs that I started breeding back about 1977. They were 119 blood bred close. The muffs turned out pretty big too.
And they rolled....spun hard.... a couple of them had spun blood in their eyes. One of them was such an active roller that I named her Showtime.
The blood was basically from Frank Lavins 2564 bred by Pensom which was a son of 119, and 6030, bred by Pensom and which was a daughter of 119...
Gomez
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George R.
348 posts
Mar 11, 2008
6:19 PM
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Paul
are you still Breeding that line of Birds ?
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George R.
349 posts
Mar 11, 2008
6:28 PM
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Pual
I have always said It's a choice as far as what a fancier does with there birds. In no way will I ever tell someone what to do with there birds.
If people choose to stock birds from the perch or air thats there choice.
the only thing I dont agree with is when people give advise to a newby and they do the opposite For example.
get this guys Birds or that guys Birds , yet they fly a totaly different family . What kind of advise is that ?
Paul also if a bird spins blood in its eyes that is a major fualt as far as I am concerned .
I would not keep breeding Birds that had that fault .
But that would be my choice , if someone else chooses to breed them then all I can say is good luck.
Last Edited by on Mar 11, 2008 6:33 PM
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ezeedad
360 posts
Mar 11, 2008
7:19 PM
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Here is the original pair of muffs I described.
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ezeedad
361 posts
Mar 11, 2008
7:22 PM
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George,
Except for those originals I never had any more of those birds spin blood in their eyes.
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George R.
352 posts
Mar 11, 2008
8:29 PM
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good deal Paul.
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George R.
359 posts
Mar 11, 2008
9:55 PM
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UPDATE ... Igave the OLD ENGLISH TUMBLERS away today to my neighbor
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
GOLD MEMBER
2712 posts
Jul 25, 2009
6:58 PM
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.
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RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
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macsrollers
155 posts
Jul 25, 2009
8:53 PM
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I have a heavy muff severely webbed foot Recessive Red bird I bred out of, according to Doug Ouellette, the grandson of the Herb Sparkes 313 X 50 pair on a Sister hen hen. A 1997 bird individual bred. It has about a 1 1/2 inch muff. I'll have to have George help me post a picture of it as I am not proficient at that. According to many and the pedigrees behind Doug's birds, these are some of the purest Pensom blood birds around. It is the only muff I ever got out of the pair and I bred at least 30 birds out of it. For what it is worth, seems to show that muffs do exist in the pure Pensom Birmingham Rollers. But I guess only the roller gods know for sure! Enjoy your next fly! Don M. Mac's Rollers
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