3757
1052 posts
Dec 01, 2008
7:10 PM
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Henry - I am in no way trying to offend (just in case it sounds like I am coming off strong) but trace back to who you received them from as that is strange to me. Every case that I have investigated for people ended up where the individual had other breeds in an open loft. Some say it can just happen but the chances that it came from someone is more than likely. It may not be the person you got the originals from but some one they recieved them from. They may spin like hell but I would re-evaluate if I were you. The wild colors and crest make me shiver. If I wanted top notches I would raise helmets, Nuns or Komorners.
Your Friend Oso
Last Edited by on Dec 01, 2008 7:11 PM
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kopetsa
2424 posts
Dec 01, 2008
7:18 PM
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for example.. what kind of colors make you shiver? lol jw
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Andrew C.
Home of the Yellows
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elopez
1822 posts
Dec 01, 2008
7:22 PM
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Henry,
Did you get the parents from Hector Coya? He breeds crested birds, some come out with crest and some don't but still carry the crest. Anyhow, good luck in flying them and hopefully they'll do something for you.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
http://lopezloft22.bravehost.com/
Last Edited by on Dec 01, 2008 7:23 PM
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THISROLL
171 posts
Dec 01, 2008
7:23 PM
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oh yeah i didn't anwer or attepmt to anwer your question henery... well umm i have a pair that done that before.((they are not rollers). i use them for fostering and when i didn't have any more roller to foster them to i let them breed for fun and when the babies grew up they had a crest .. both young did.. the parents male: white flight bue check and female:bald grizzle..they had no physical crest on them but there youngs did at a very young age..maybe its in the genes from a long time ago..maybe your birds were crossed with something else..
Last Edited by on Dec 01, 2008 7:25 PM
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3757
1053 posts
Dec 01, 2008
7:28 PM
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Kopetsa - Indigo, Opal white bars, Andulusians and purple people eaters :) Now, that is just me and I am not knocking others for doing what they like that is why I said it makes me shiver. Some may love it and that is cool for them.
Last Edited by on Dec 01, 2008 7:29 PM
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Hector Coya
285 posts
Dec 01, 2008
7:30 PM
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Here we go again,
A few months ago ,i whent on the UK forum and asked the question,does the crest ever show up in England,i got all kind of replys from top breeders from over there that said crest has come out on rollers for 100 years.
Let me go back and find it.i posted it here but noen seem to read it,funny aint it.
Henry's crest come from his own birds,he gave me one to cross with my crest.
Hector Coya-SGVS
Last Edited by on Dec 01, 2008 8:50 PM
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kopetsa
2425 posts
Dec 01, 2008
7:34 PM
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If I know they are pure bred rollers, I don't mind them.. It's just a great thing yellow wasn't in there! lol jk
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Andrew C.
Home of the Yellows
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Hector Coya
286 posts
Dec 01, 2008
7:37 PM
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edit | delete
has anybody seen Gordon Daffurn's bird's.
I live in the USA ,i have bred some rollers with a crest.i saw a picture af a roller that he donated last year and had a crest,how often dose the crest pop up in England?
Thanks Hector Coya-SGVS
Paul.Lee
7 posts
Aug 16, 2008
9:47 PM Hi Hector,
I was the secretary to the National Birmingham Roller Association for 10 years and also the Co ordinator for the World Cup Fly in Europe. I have seen Gordons birds many times over the years, as I went on every National and World Cup Fly taking the judge round and scoring for him. Gordon flew some of the best birds I have seen in England. Thinking back I think he won through to fly in the Nationals every year I was secretary and won it once, which takes some doing as you are flying against the best fliers in England. You see more crested birds in the North East of England but they are all over the place. I flew Peter Harper and Phil Calver birds and their birds though out the crest as they were the same strain of roller. I have been to Canada,America,South Africa,Holland and Australia to judge kits and seen crested birds in all countries.
I know live in North Cyprus at Esentepe, so I no longer keep rollers but still keep in touch with the lads and check out the roller sites most days.
Keep Em Flying
Paul Lee.
j .wanless
360 posts
Aug 17, 2008
4:27 AM hi hector
like paul lee said gorden daffurn is always near the top in england.i judged his birds in the aerc a few years ago some very nice birds.paul has probaly seen them more than anyone over the years.as for the crests there is a lot in the uk.i personly seen them 1st time 30 years ago at graham dexters.ive never bred one + if i did i would kill it i hate them.ive seen some roll really well but they have no sence at all.so i would advise you to stay clear of them.
the rollers
46 posts
Aug 17, 2008
5:42 AM i breed alot of crests through the Peter Harper strain, i fly them and breed with them, some of my best rollers have been crested. very rarely i get a roll down from them.
Paul
Hector Coya
226 posts
Aug 22, 2008
4:23 PM edit | delete
Thank you guys for your response,
I got my crest from 3 diferent people,all of wich only had rollers,but some people here in the USA didnt beleave it was posible to produce a crest without crossing something to get it.Thank you for your support.Hector Coya
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3757
1055 posts
Dec 01, 2008
7:38 PM
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Hector - Henry had to have gotten his birds from someone else and that is my point. I also believe from my association with many old timers that hypothetically if one came up the old timers would never bred from it. I know Bob Scott would not breed them niether would Bill Patrick or Bruce Cooper. Like I said if someone likes them that is cool just not my thing. Hell, I do not breed Doneks but I am not going to knock someone who does.
Last Edited by on Dec 01, 2008 7:40 PM
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fresnobirdman
245 posts
Dec 01, 2008
7:40 PM
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what does these "crest" look like?
can some one post a picture?
~~Fresnobirdman~~
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lionel
87 posts
Dec 01, 2008
7:51 PM
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Whats up Henry - can you post a picture?
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Lionel
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Hector Coya
287 posts
Dec 01, 2008
8:12 PM
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La Ron, We all got our birds from someone els..
My point is,you dont have to have a loft with other breeds to get a crest,they get them in England as you can read.
I never got a crest from my Bob scott line however the crest i got, i got them from other breeders that only had rollers.
I have many articles from 3 old APJ to the last of the Great that show pure crested rollers.
Plona hed crested rollers,do you think that gene just disapeard? its still floting around somwhere.
the people that gave me my crest got them from 2 regular rollers.
Thers a guy in LA,by the name of Gus that i spoke to at a show and he bred 2 crest out of his birds,we are going to traid to get fresh blood.
he didnt have any of my birds so how did he get it?
Hector Coya-SGVS
Last Edited by on Dec 01, 2008 8:13 PM
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3757
1056 posts
Dec 01, 2008
8:27 PM
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Hector - I respect your view but I stick to my beliefs and the information that I have acquired the last 38 years. I have some great information for you on the Plona crest that will blow your mind. Lets talk about it someday and I hope all well. It is very funny that Smith never bred any and Plona got his birds from Smith. But Plona had Jacobins. Also, I know Gus very well for over 20 years.
Last Edited by on Dec 01, 2008 8:28 PM
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henry135
110 posts
Dec 01, 2008
8:30 PM
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HENRY
L.P.R.C well guys i just wanted to se what you guys think about that and no it wasent a hector coya birds i met hector in a show and saw the crest and told hime that one of my birds throw crest and i bread that pair for 5 years and they proudose good rollers and i was shock to see the crest on the babys that pair is pur jaconet line after 5 years off breading that pair whey did i get crest
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Hector Coya
289 posts
Dec 01, 2008
8:58 PM
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La Ron,there is noway Plona crosse his birds to Jacobins,
You can see in the pictuers of the book last pf the great,those have no jacobin in them.
You still havent replyed why is England getting crest,
(You see more crested birds in the North East of England but they are all over the place. I flew Peter Harper and Phil Calver birds and their birds though out the crest as they were the same strain of roller. I have been to Canada,America,South Africa,Holland and Australia to judge kits and seen crested birds in all countries.) Paul Lee England,,
Hector Coya
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3757
1057 posts
Dec 01, 2008
9:02 PM
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Hector - I am a stanch Pensom fanatic and follower and it is almost like discusing different types of religions with me when regarding the crest, andulusion and all of the other weird colors. I had a guy try and convince me that Pensom birds had white bars lol. As I said I respect your view but I have a different set of data collections and our conclusions differ. I hope all is well.
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henry135
112 posts
Dec 01, 2008
9:04 PM
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HENRY
L.P.R.C whats up 3757 hector coya whats going on
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Hector Coya
290 posts
Dec 01, 2008
9:05 PM
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All is well,
By the way did you read the post from England,,LOL
Hector coya-SGVS
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TimP
124 posts
Dec 01, 2008
9:19 PM
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Tim Decker bred a crest once, I believe he only had the 272 stuff at the time don't quote me on it!
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BA Rollers
137 posts
Dec 01, 2008
10:32 PM
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Laron, would my rollers produce full muff feet because I raise Wests too? Would they produce crests because I raise Helmets? Would they produce peak crests because I raise mookies? Or perhaps because I have Portuguese Tumblers and Catalonian Tumblers I will produce shortface birds? I know you know the correct answer but your post above would make the casual fancier believe that breeds contaminate one another by the simple fact a fancier has multiple breeds.
There's a lot of skeletons in the roller history closet...JMO.
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3757
1058 posts
Dec 02, 2008
4:11 AM
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Brian – As you know I am one that loves a great discussion and this is one of those. To answer your question I would say if a fancier is analyzing what I said at only one angle you have a point but if they are looking at it in all angles they may also reason that mistakes happen in open loft breeding. You raise helmets come back from a show throw a bird in the roller open loft until tomorrow, go to work early and when you come back snatch the bird out and wonder why years later you have a crest. Now, that story is not a hypothetical but happened to a great fancier but it was not a helmet. Did that fancier intentionally cross bred (heavens no). There is a great fancier that I love greatly (Still alive) who had top notch birds in with his rollers breeding in the same pen. (This is the skeleton stuff you are speaking of). Did he intentionally breed for crest heavens no he did not. Do people end up with crest coming out of that line? Yes! Of course you may say this is skewed but it is ironic that in many cases there were explanations as to the why? Am I saying that it is genetically impossible? No! You often wonder why McCully, Bill Patrick, Mckenzie, John Walters and many more would tell you to stay away from certain lines but that is why. When I was a young guy I would go to the LAPC meeting and sit down in the meetings and listen. One year Howard McCully was there and I sat down and was amazed at the stories he was telling me and I always loved this stuff. I ask for a pen and started writing this junk down. My father was in the meeting and when he saw me talking with Howard he told me to get away from that guy. I ask him why and he said that the old man was weird. Now, I know what he meant but Howard was a straight shooter. He mentioned something to me about another great fancier who lived in Southern California and to this day people get top notches out of that line and I do not think it is a coincidence.
Also, some histories for the newbie - Groused and Muffs are part of the Birmingham roller genotype. Many of the original import birds were grouse, muff or carried the gene heavily.
Last Edited by on Dec 02, 2008 6:03 AM
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gotspin7
2057 posts
Dec 02, 2008
5:46 AM
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Laron, good information and thank you for sharing, do me a favor e-mail me at sortiz@arvest.com.. Thanks!
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Sal Ortiz
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J_Star
1789 posts
Dec 02, 2008
5:53 AM
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Laron, That was Brian M. not Cliff.
Jay
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Sunflower
2 posts
Dec 02, 2008
6:03 AM
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Professor D,
I always enjoy your posts as I find the history of the fancy very interesting. As a young lad in the early 60's I too had the pleasure on meeting Mr Pensom and visiting his loft. One particular bird caught my eye. It was a Blue Bar Marked with White Flights except the Bar was reddish not blue. When I asked Mr Pensom about it he called it a "bronze bar". Many years later while serving a tour in Europe I had the pleasure of visiting England and the "Black Country". In several lofts there I saw "bronze bar" rollers. I have two in my loft now, except they are not "bronze bar" the are indigo bars. I believe indigo is a naturally occuring color in Birmingham Roller. I can't speak to Opal as I have never seen one other than in pictures.
Respectfully,
Joe Beach
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3757
1059 posts
Dec 02, 2008
6:14 AM
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Thanks Jay!
Joe - Thanks. Maybe someone can post some "indigo's". I have seen many bronze bars as the old timers called them but never heard of indigo until the last twenty years or so.
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Sunflower
3 posts
Dec 02, 2008
6:23 AM
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LaRon,
I will try to post a couple of pictures later. But I can tell you they look exactly like the "bronze bars". Those 'bronze bars" were really indigo bars. I suspect the oldtimers didn't really understand the indigo color factor so they called it what it looked like, "bronze bar".
Joe
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j .wanless
502 posts
Dec 02, 2008
8:11 AM
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hi all
hector coya i sent you a post before you have it up on this site.graham dexter was the 1st person i seen crested rollers 30 years ago.i think graham got his birds off an old timer named lenny harris not the old ollie harris.these are pure rollers as graham only kept rollers.graham let a lot of fanciers in my town have birds in 1980.they all kept only grahams birds at that time.every one of them bred the odd crest every now + then.and every one of them only kept rollers.i my self have never had grahams birds + i have never bred a crest.les bazance /george kitson /peter harper/ all bred crests.these are just a few who i thought you might of heard about as they are top roller men though george kitson has passed away.les + peter as far as i know still get them now + again.peter harpers birds come from a man named frank pickles who died years ago.but i believe franks birds originated from lenny harris.so im quite sure thats where the crests came from years + years ago.lenny harris.
Last Edited by on Dec 02, 2008 8:13 AM
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spinningdemon
21 posts
Dec 02, 2008
8:37 AM
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Guys and Gals,
Can anyone tell me what the origanil breeds were to create the Birmingham Roller? They are in relation to other breeds a very young variety.
I have seen many say West Of Englands, Orientals,and old dutch tumblers. None of these varieties have crest's. Is it possible that it is a natural mutation that is how the origainal crest's muff's even roll and tumble happened.
I love the crested birds and need to get me some because I do not have enough projects! LOL
Having had rollers for over 30 years I have seen many families of rollers and have seen crested birds in only 2 families here in Utah.
Both families were from lofts with only rollers. Paul Bradford told me that he has had crests appear in his very old family of Casperson rollers this family of birds is from the 1890's I have an add from O.C. Casperson selling his family of birds in Jan 1900 Crested birds from rollers kept pure for 96 years {The year I Spook with Bradford }
I feel that a natural mutation is possible. Or recessive genes coming together after bouncing around for years or the idea of who really cares? If you like it breed it.
I breed for spin, if it has it it has a home.
Just some thoughts.
David Curneal
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Scott
1296 posts
Dec 02, 2008
9:48 AM
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John, did they have a peak or a crest like a half moon ?
The thing is about crests (not peak) over here is that these guys breed for them and other breeds were used,and the cross is obvious in many of them.
Just like the guys that breed for muffs, many are crossed with West Of Englands,sure muffs and even peaks are in the breed depending on the family, but that isn't what many of these guys want,they want it bigger and more pronounced and another breed is need for such.
The biggest difference between over here and over there is that these guys run non-performance projects,color,crests,muffs ect.sure they talk about performance,but is just that,talk,if the project didn't come first there would be no project to begin with.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Dec 02, 2008 9:52 AM
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Scott
1297 posts
Dec 02, 2008
9:54 AM
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(Paul Bradford told me that he has had crests appear in his very old family of Casperson rollers )
Casperson Rollers is it's own breed isn't it ?
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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j .wanless
503 posts
Dec 02, 2008
10:05 AM
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hi all
scott i would say you would probaly call it a peak.as its not like the fancy birds.but they are pure rollers
i hate them + would kill it in the nest if i bred one .but i have seen some brilliant rollers among them.but like i said before they have no sense at all.
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Velo99
1969 posts
Dec 02, 2008
10:52 AM
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Guys,
Here is an indie bar. I bred it from a blue bar hen and a red bar cockbird. The bars look almost purple after the moult.
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V99
Blue sky single beat
in cadance performing now
earth beckons the winged
___ ~_____
\__\_/-|_| \__\____
/()_)__48___()_)\__\
Last Edited by on Dec 02, 2008 10:53 AM
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BA Rollers
138 posts
Dec 02, 2008
12:01 PM
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Kenny, a red bar and a blue bar CANNOT produce an indigo bar. It is Impossible. Indigo is a partial dominant. One of the parents has to be an indigo in order to produce an indigo. Pigeons cannot "carry" indigo. If a bird is out of an indigo and it not an indigo itself, it doesn't matter that it was from an indigo as it has no indigo genes.
The bronze bars that are most commonly seen, especially in some of the UK photos I've seen of some of the badges, etc are the expression of kite bronze. Kite bronze is largely a pattern color. Meaning you see it first on the marking. Hence, a blue bar with bronze bars is still a blue bar, only it is showing kite bronze too. Continue to mate blue bars expressing kite bronze together and over time you can easily end up with blue bars with intense bronze bars.
The difference between a kite bronze bar and an indigo bar is very easy to distinguish. Blue bars have a black tail bar. Indigos have NO tail bar. If anyone's "bronze bar" has a natural blue bar (black) tail bar it is a blue bar expressing kite bronze. If anyone's "bronze bar" has no tail bar it is an indigo bar.
Ash reds and indigos are the only two colors that do not express tail bars.
David C.
I have raised full blown crests from my baldheads before. Just about every West breeder who raises baldheads for many years can tell you that they have produced at least one before. Its been in the Wests for as long as most people can remember. It just doesn't pop up often and isn't bred for. The difference was they were culled and often times the parents were too because it wasn't desired by the mainstream. Our other colors don't really produce them, at least I can't recall hearing about it from anyone. Just the baldheads, and the baldheads were the original and dominant color/pattern of Wests since they were first determined as a breed. One of our historians in the breed mentioned seeing some crested Wests in the 50s.
Last Edited by on Dec 02, 2008 12:03 PM
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3757
1062 posts
Dec 02, 2008
1:20 PM
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Brian - Thank you for the information on indigo as I learned again something new today.
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spinningdemon
22 posts
Dec 02, 2008
1:33 PM
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Cliff,
I was wondering on Baldheads being the primary color for west's just because in the encyclopedia of pigeon breeds by Levi it states that the baldhead was actually added later to give more color variety to wests? I have heard many times though that the balds were first, so just wondering on Levi's account.
In my flying west's the self's are better performers the baldheads are not quite there yet.
Again thank you for some great info Sir,
David Curneal
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Sunflower
4 posts
Dec 02, 2008
2:08 PM
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Good post BA rollers. Everything you said about indigo is absolutely true. If one wants to test whether the bird is an indigo bar or a blue bar showing kite the bird can be bred to a black(Spread Blue), if is indigo the pairing will produce Andalusian. Also, I have read but not seen that ash red can cover indigo to some degree. The bird will look like a red bar or checker but will have a bluish tint to the head and tail.
Joe Beach
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3757
1064 posts
Dec 02, 2008
2:46 PM
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Joe - I never seen an andulusion in Bill Pensom's family of birds.
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2024 posts
Dec 02, 2008
2:56 PM
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Good post guys ...David that's Brian not Cliff..I see why the confusing with the name Ballrollers -- BARollers
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Ralph
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Sunflower
5 posts
Dec 02, 2008
3:02 PM
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LaRon- I didn't see any when I visited either. Don't know that he ever raised any. My only point is that Andalusian is a product of indigo. If you've got indigo, sooner or later an Andy will pop up if bred off a spread blue (black). Keep the dialog going, I really enjoy discussing rollers with knowledgable men like you and others on this site.
Joe
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BA Rollers
139 posts
Dec 02, 2008
3:15 PM
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David, to my knowledge and as you have seen Chuck post about on the WOE site at what point whomever said, "these are now west of england tumblers" is unclear. The earliest painting I've seen of what was a very early West was nothing more than a badge roller. They all did come from the same general gene pool to one degree or another. I have some great articles by Bell from the early 1900s in England that George Mason sent me where most of the pictures were of pie-bald Wests. I think they called them Spangles at the time there and probably still do.
That is interesting that your selfs are tumbling for you. I only know of guys flying the baldheads and they tumble for them and fly for hours on end. Sounds like the others would do the same too if given the chance.
Joe- Technically ash red and indigo will co-express. The same way as blue bar and indigo co-express. Basically you would have an ash red checker for example that is expressing indigo too. And you are correct that largely the head will have that deep blue capping effect and the red color on the shield will be very dark and rich. But then a lot of it depends on what other modifiers are present too. For the most part it is often hard for anyone to tell the difference on such a bird. Knowing the parentage would be the only certainty or breeding from it to a blue based bird to see if it produced indigo blue.
For the novices reading this, the term Indigo isn't a description of the color of the bars (bronze). Indigo is a description of the color of blue the bird turns when indigo is present. The co-effect is the bars turn bronze.
Laron, nor have I.
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3757
1065 posts
Dec 02, 2008
3:20 PM
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Brian - Ditto
Joe - I think we agree Pensom did not have indigo.
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Hector Coya
291 posts
Dec 02, 2008
3:37 PM
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Well La Ron,
Now that i showed you there is crest coming out of birds in England,why is it Impocible for roller breeders in the good old USa to breed a crest out of 2 regular roller?
Are we the only once that have pure rollers?
and in England ,they must of bred them in an open loft with other breeds,
Yes Tim P. Tim Decker did produce a crest,he gave it to me,that is one of 3 i got from 3 diferent breeders.
I dont know the background of my crest beyond from where i got them from,they may have been crossed as far as i know they where not,and actually it dose not matter at this point,i like it ,and they spinn as good as any other good roller.
But to think that Pensom only brough clean genes with no crest in the background is rediculace.
Ive been breeding Boxer dogs for some time.I have a few Pedegrees,in no pedegree dose anyone breed white Boxers,AKC will not acnoledge them,but yet they still come out ,after 10 generations of Fawn or brindle ,you still get a white pup now and then.
Hector Coya-SGVS
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Sunflower
6 posts
Dec 02, 2008
4:08 PM
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LaRon- It sounds like the bird I saw at Mr Pensom's loft was probably a blue bar manifesting kite bronze in the bars. My family of bird originated from Paul Vaughn. His birds came down off of birds that Bob Evans imported from Mr Pensom before WWII. They had no indigo in them either. The indigo in my loft comes from a bird with James Turner blood behind it. I still believe this color modifier is a natural occuring factor in Birmingham Rollers. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong. I do know mine spin as well as anything else I have ever seen in the air. If they didn't, they would be 2 inches shorter than they are now.
Respectfully,
Joe
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3757
1066 posts
Dec 02, 2008
5:30 PM
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Hector- Once again. Did I ever say I was the only one that had pure rollers? Never have you heard that and never have I insinuated that either. I will say that you have not proven anything to me regarding Bill Pensom's family of rollers and there is no crest in his family. You can believe what you wish and like I said one million times I respect your opinion and I am not trying to prove anything. The color and crest guys can do as they please. I know Bill Pensom, Bob Scott and all of the guys I knew would turn over in their grave if people were saying now that their birds had crest. It is not so with those lines. There is no indigo, Andalusian, white bars, or crest. I hope all is well.
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gabe454
1377 posts
Dec 02, 2008
5:40 PM
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I dont breed crest but let me tell you this those birds can spin dont matter if its a pensom or not a pensom or not a birmaingham they spin thats all that matters!
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454
TRIPLE "G" LOFT
L.P.R.C
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3757
1067 posts
Dec 02, 2008
5:55 PM
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Gabe - That is no doubt and I have said that a million times. But, that may be all it matters to some and that is the very reason they are popping up now as many do not care about the colors and crest but I do not want those type of birds. Does that make me wrong?
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2030 posts
Dec 02, 2008
5:55 PM
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I don't breed for crest or muff neither but it s funny the same bird that gives us all pleasure in the air is the same bird that some dislike on the ground.everyone has his or her own taste.and that's what makes it a beauty.
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Ralph
Last Edited by on Dec 02, 2008 5:57 PM
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Hector Coya
293 posts
Dec 02, 2008
6:03 PM
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All is well La Ron,I do respect you highly,
I hope you dont get upset,this is just a friendly exchange of opinions.
I never got a crest from my Bob scott bird,and i probably never will,
I know you didnt insenuate that you where the only one with pure Pensoms,
The point is Pensom didnt creat the breed,he just got good birds from other top breeders of his time,whose to say those breeders didnt have the crest jene many generations ago from where they got there birds.
My boxer dogs have never bred a white boxer,i have a friend that also breeds Boxers,he bred a white one out of his Champion sire,I didnt unsult him by telling him the Lab next door must of jumped the wall,i took his word and i know the breed after 125 years is still throuing out white.
the Rollers is the same thing nobody realy knows how many breeds whent in to make it what it is today.
Hector Coya-SGVS
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spinningdemon
23 posts
Dec 02, 2008
6:09 PM
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Brian sorry about the mistake of calling you someone else. I am new to this site and am still trying to get to know everyone. I am sure I could have called you worse names LOL.
Anyway thank you for your response I would love to see those articles you were taking about that would be awesome. I love reading about the old timers it is very interesting and seeing what they had is neat to. I did see in Acrobates of the Air an old photo of West's and they look just like badge rollers. I like my west's to have a bit more action then just the high flying I want them to stay in eye sight and do their tricks what good are tricks if you cant see them? Its kind of like the "Nose Bleed Section" at the concert! You know the performers are there but you cant see all the action.
Hector, I have recieved many reports about your crested birds and all of them have been outstanding! I am going to get me some of them one day. Keep up the good work with them.
Scott, Casperson rollers are not their own breed they are just a very old family of birmingham rollers. They came to this country in the late 1800's They are best known now by a few guys here in Utah and a few in other places like washington. I am working with this family from 2 different breeders and they are both very different birds. It goes to show you that even when a line is kept pure for a long time by 2 different people you end up with different birds.
Its not the line, its what the breeder does with the line that matters.
O.C. Casperson is not here with us any more so he cant tell me how to breed how to feed etc. so the birds in nutshell became Caspersons, Wilsons, Bradfords, Workman, Fife, Jensons and now Curneals altough I would never claim to be as skilled a breeder as Casperson, Pensom, Hilton or any of the other birds I play with. I just breed for the standard set in my mind and go from there.
Again crested or not if they spin and give me the wow factor in the air they have a home at my place.
David Curneal
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Velo99
1970 posts
Dec 02, 2008
7:46 PM
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Question.
If indigo is a partial dominant and blue spread is a dominant coloring in rollers,why dont we see more of them?
Seems there was some discussion about andy being an cross breeding result. One could assume from the information put forth the disparagement of the andys was so much uneducated drivel.
Andy is a beautiful reflection of the colorations the pigeon possesses.
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V99
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