norlan hollingate
1303 posts
Dec 22, 2008
10:20 AM
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yes there are crested rollers in uk check the site
hector keep up the good work
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Hector Coya
325 posts
Dec 22, 2008
10:39 AM
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Hey thanks Norlan
A few years back,about 4 maybe,i argued with someof the top guys here in the USA,and i wish i could find the old post,but they where telling me that we here in the USA had crossed other birds to get the Crest becouse there was no crest in England,those people now just ignore that or maybe dont remember,BUT I DO.
Thanks for showing these guys ,
I like all the post in my support on the UK forum, thanks to all those guys that came to help..
Hector Coya_SGVS
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j .wanless
559 posts
Dec 22, 2008
10:50 AM
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hi all
hector ive spoke to scott about the crest.and what we call crests here are a lot diffrent to the crests ive seen on this site on your side.where your crests go right across thier heads our crests are no more than
a few feathers stuck up on top of thier head.
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cv rollers
194 posts
Dec 22, 2008
10:52 AM
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hector i got a few birds from fil while back to help out my brother inlaw ,i made him a kit box and some birds to start breeding and he has a pair that is throwing out 1- crest 1-reg ,had to be from ur stuff,rolling real good .will post pic's when i get back
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Hector Coya
327 posts
Dec 22, 2008
10:56 AM
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 thats a picture of a bird from Gordon Darfur from England
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Hector Coya
328 posts
Dec 22, 2008
10:57 AM
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Thats a picture of a bird Henry from Hemet bred out of his Jaconnets
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Hector Coya
329 posts
Dec 22, 2008
10:58 AM
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Looks the same to me
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Hector Coya
330 posts
Dec 22, 2008
11:02 AM
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The diference is that im breeding them back to back and some crest are getting wider,but some are even smaller like just a few feathers. Hector Coya_SGVS
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rottweiler
92 posts
Dec 22, 2008
11:42 AM
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ho no not for me i would kill it
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Hector Coya
332 posts
Dec 22, 2008
11:50 AM
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Thats what people have done for many years, Kill it thats why you dont see them that often, but i kinda like it so its my side project.
Hector Coya_SGVS
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TT
GOLD MEMBER
268 posts
Dec 22, 2008
11:55 AM
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Just curious Hector, How well do the Crested do for you?
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cv rollers
195 posts
Dec 22, 2008
1:03 PM
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Hector these 2 is what the pair my brother inlaw has are throwing out 1-crest 1-no crest,it has thrown out ,black,blue check and this color.he says they are rolling real good these two r just starting to come in.these to my friend jose has in his kit rite now
the one on left
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Hector Coya
333 posts
Dec 22, 2008
1:15 PM
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since they are inbred kind of tight ,i do get alot of rolldowns,but the once that keep the control are very good,i did start with 2 hens,from diferent people but i had to breed breed them to my cocks and then breed there sons back,the first cross to my birds produced regular birds,but i used 2 of my deepest fastes cocks i had so the roll became too deep once inbred a few times.
since i started with 2 hens i got a crested cock from Mick Maraviov to try and mix the genes,his crest was a cross from the Russian tumblers but he had been playing with the crest for many years before me,that didnt work becouse with that cock i got 100% rolldouns.
I kept a hen out of mikes stuff incase i need to bring it in later but for now the other crest are giving me a 50% good once and 50% rolldowns.
I still have a way to go,but thats the fun of raczing pigeons.
Im enjoing the hobby the way i want,i dont shove the crest down anyonce throught,
Its funny and i get a good laugh when people come over and see a bird spinning its ass off,they ask if they can buy it and when it comes down its a crest,they about shit.
Hector Coya-SGVS
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Rob408
38 posts
Dec 22, 2008
1:39 PM
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I've seen Hector's crest fly and I can tell you, they spin...some to their detriment (roll down). But the great part is that Hector will keep working on them until he gets better perecentage of good birds vs. bad birds. I would get some crest or birds with crest genes, but as a beginner, I wouldn't know what to do with them. They'd be too hot to handle (pun intended). But I know that once Hector gets them to have a balanced roll, I'll be knocking on his door and asking him to sell me some ; )
Rob
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cv rollers
196 posts
Dec 22, 2008
1:44 PM
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I seen ur birds and i no what you mean LOL.....ur rite its fun to do ur own thing .my brother inlaw is going to bring me some of those crest for xmas hopefully !!!!
good luck with ur project
Last Edited by on Dec 22, 2008 1:47 PM
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norlan hollingate
1310 posts
Dec 22, 2008
1:51 PM
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good on ya hector
dont be a copycat n do your own thing wat u like
i know j wanlass who i am a friend of [ive not got many lol]he hates featherd feet but he must admit that he must of seen some excerlent featherd feet rollers
but everyone to his own
wat coulore u like wat length wat eyes wat depth wat speed crest/featherd feet each to his own we are all individuals n a week man lets another man change his wants n beliefs
do it your way its the only way
there is the easy way n the hard way the hard way becomes easy with time
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j .wanless
560 posts
Dec 23, 2008
3:51 AM
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hi all
norman i have never seen a good feathered foot roller.
i have seen good crests.but i have also never seen a good crest with control.i admit like you + like hector
says its his own thing + do what you want + not what anyone else tells you + good luck hector.but i will tell you if you want to compete at the very top no one will
ever do it with crests or muffed feet birds + that is a
fact.look at all the top men in the u.k that breed crests now + again not one of them as ever used them in the stock loft.
Last Edited by on Dec 23, 2008 3:56 AM
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Hector Coya
342 posts
Dec 23, 2008
7:42 AM
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J.Wanless
I dont think the crest in England or here will determine if the bird is a good roller or not.
The crest gene like any other dosenot efect the roll.
I thought Gordon Darfur has done very well in competitions and he has crest?
I dont know but thats what i read.
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norlan hollingate
1321 posts
Dec 23, 2008
8:23 AM
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hi hector
gordon as excerlent birds and always does well n is very consistant
j w not 1 featherd feet with all the birds u seen m8
new topic lol
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j .wanless
561 posts
Dec 23, 2008
8:24 AM
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hi all
hector ive judged gordons birds he flys very good birds.some of the top men here breed crests. but out of all + i mean all of them. not one would ever breed off a crest.but on the other hand there is a lot of fanciers who have crests off the top flyers birds that do breed off them.but hector what im trying to say is thats why those flyers will never ever be in the same league as the top flyers .because they are prepared to use birds that all of us top flyers would never use.so if its no good for the master flyers it should not be good enough for anyone else.if you want to know more about the origin of our crests i can help you to an extent going back to 30 years.but good luck with your project as norman said its what you want to do + as you said its only a experiment for you
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2188 posts
Dec 23, 2008
6:09 PM
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John hey there sup..you the second one ,Scott the first..that I read that said to Hector that he will never do good in competition you know be at the top with crested birds..why is that because the crested birds roll too deep ??because I know they roll just like the one's without the crown or muff..they have the roll gene in them.. please explain.just curious.and you know what curiosity did to the cat but I know satisfaction brought it back..lol..
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Ralph
Last Edited by on Dec 23, 2008 6:09 PM
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Scott
1351 posts
Dec 23, 2008
8:59 PM
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Ralph,when ever you take your eye off of the ball you will fall short, also, any line that throws 50 0/0 rolldowns and then you add in the rest that have stability issues such as landing early,not kitting ect. and you have something that should have been culled out of existance a long time ago, plus it is nothing short of cruel in my book.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Dec 23, 2008 9:07 PM
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Shadow
323 posts
Dec 23, 2008
11:19 PM
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Don'T have Crests never did if they ever appear they would be judged and assessed like any other,fairly wouldn't condemn because of crest,there are many other reasons to condemn,any roller,but they are never going to make it if banged out because they have crests,just as an aside,racing birds the Jan Arden strain some have crests,these are the most sought after,because of the apparent good qualities they possess,if a roller is doing it right,does a crest really matter,if we were to breed a perfect roller with a crest,is this supposed to be a cull,couldn't care less if it has a toupee,so long as it does it right in the air,and even better if he does it in the breeding box,isn't this the basics that we all work with.
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2192 posts
Dec 23, 2008
11:37 PM
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Shadow I know what you mean but I thought about the percentage that Scott pointed out he does make sense.
----------that 's alot of roll down if you don't cull it they will cull them self..that to me is as cruel as you doing it.. now if its a side project like Hector says he is doing and still has time to work with his other lines than he has the time and he is enjoying it.. ..me I don't have time .time is catching up to me and with the BOP on his side..both trying to destroy me..but I won't have it..bring it on I say..let the fun time begin..
Ralph
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Shadow
324 posts
Dec 23, 2008
11:47 PM
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Hey Hector
What about a Roller Exchange Scheme,you send some American Crest Spinners,and I will send you some Irish Smooth Stiffs,we could bill it and arrange it as an Irish /American Roller cultural exchange scheme get it coincide with St Patrick's Day,you contact Barack and I will contact our head honcho,L O L ,we may even get sponsorship for it who knows stranger things have happened,ya gotta laugh enjoy the birds Hector,that's the important thing
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j .wanless
568 posts
Dec 24, 2008
2:13 AM
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hi all
ralph scott nailed it spot on .at last some one who knows what he is talking about.the crest is a fault something in the genes the same as the roll down.the big diffrence with them both .you cant see it in the roll down at least i dont believe you can.but you can in the crest. dont get me wrong ive seen some very good rollers in the crests .but in at least 30 years of coming across them i have never seen 1 that has had any sence. theres fanciers here in the u.k trying to kid us + themselves that they can succeed with them they never will.like scott said its hard enough as it is with rollers without been distracted by something else.
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millsy55
156 posts
Dec 24, 2008
7:49 AM
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john this game is all about opinions thats why every one to there own if we were to all be the same then were would it end we r not sheep and follow all the rest or wot people think is wright i have watched a lot of kits in boro and in my opinion everyones birds a no better or no worse than mine as for results count well most of the time it boils down to luck on the day as you know in our club enybody is capable of winning it we r all looking for the perfect roller the perfect team so a roller is a roller with crests socks or both if they roll they are rollers
on a lighter note hope you have a great xmas and a cracking new year see you in the new year will drop in and see you
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Hector Coya
346 posts
Dec 24, 2008
7:58 AM
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Scott
I know what your saying the % is not what i want YET,but the fun of this hobby is trying to improve on what ever you strive for,
I guess i dont feel i can do much more to the Bob Scott line,bob had them for 50 years,what can i do to make them faster?
Now whith the crest ,its just a side project ,i have a goal and a long way to go,that is keeping it interesting.
im just having fun is there anything wrong with that?
Merry Christmas.
Hector Coya-SGVS
Last Edited by on Dec 24, 2008 8:00 AM
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Scott
1354 posts
Dec 24, 2008
9:01 AM
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Hector, any line that doesn't already carry the goods should'nt even be bred to begin with as they are culls.
I can assure you that your loft and birds can allways be improved on , it doesn't matter if the quality and speed ect. was already there, in fact it has to be there already to begin with.
Our lofts are always fluid and each pigeon is an individule,just maintaining the goods is a feat in itself,and then to do that in high percentages out of our stock pairs is a never ending quest that is always changing .
Myself I am constantly looking for reasons to move birds out of the stock loft to move forward,there is nothing cut and dry here and you can never hit a point where you have arrived,never,it is impossible.
Scott
Merry Christmas !!!
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Dec 24, 2008 9:02 AM
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fhtfire
1731 posts
Dec 24, 2008
10:06 AM
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Hector,
I agree with Scott and I know that you know that nobody is picking on you becuase you know all of us are cool dudes..LOL!!
Here is what I dont understand....WHY HAVE SIDE PROJECTS....it is hard enough to fight and claw your way to the top with birds that have the goods and putting all your time and energy into your birds. Then people have side projects...that takes away from your focus on your main family.
Scott Nailed it on the head about dropping the ball...you have to stay focused on what is your main goal. As fliers and competitors.....side projects are often distractions from what you need to be doing.
Dont get me wrong...I know there are a small % of pigeon fliers that can have side projects and still be at the top...but those are few and far in between. I can understand having a side project of crests or what have you just for fun...and when I say fun...I mean...no hard work to get them to be a top notch family...why re-invent the wheel. If you are getting high % of rolldowns...there is a lot of work in front of you and that is no longer a Fun project becuase you are not focusing on your main goal and that is to win or produce a kit that knocks your socks off...and not only that...do it year after year.
Everyone is free to do and raise whatever they want...but if your main goal is to be a top flier...side projects rob from your main goal. I often wonder how one finds the time....I work 10 days a month and have lots of off days and it is hard enough to find the time to work three kits....I really dont know how most do it with more teams of birds.
Anyway....Hector...I think you have a lot of work ahead of you....and I hope you just dont spin your wheels....I myself look at it this way...Rollers are all about time...it takes years to prove out pairs and find your direction....and you cant take back those years you lose playing with projects or bad families....you continue to learn more and more when you have a tight family or building a family like I am....you are never finished.....but good luck my brother..
rock and ROLL
paul
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j .wanless
570 posts
Dec 24, 2008
10:31 AM
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hi all
millsy im afraid the only thing you got right on your post is when you say its about opinions.im afraid you got everything else in my opinion wrong.to say every ones birds in the boro are the same is crazy .to say for someone to win a fly is luck is crazy.and im afraid millsy to say your birds are as good as anyone elses is crazy. you wont like what im saying but you know me i say what i feel is right go straight to the point .like you said its about opinions + thats mine . apart from that i hope you have a great xmas + new year.
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Scott
1355 posts
Dec 24, 2008
10:45 AM
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John, you got that right,no lofts or birds are the same,we all have to concentrate around particular key birds with-in our own lofts, others may be developing thier own lines out of the siblings of those same birds which will pull them futher and further apart.
If we aren't concentrating around key birds then there is no focus, my key birds that my focus is on now are the great great great grand children of the original 3 pigeons that I based my family around.
As for luck on winning flys,I'm with you,hog wash.
We make our own luck and the proof of the pudding when prooving our birds against others is over time, not on just one fly.
Scott
MERRY CHRISTMAS !!!!
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Hector Coya
347 posts
Dec 24, 2008
10:46 AM
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Paul,I know what your saying,
Maybe my goals are diferent than others.
Ive been flying with the SGVS for about 4 years,Ive won flyer of the year 2 times been in the top4 every year,with 16 members, and i belong to one of the best clubs in So,Cal
Ive been the Precident of the best overall club voted by the QSDC magazine twice ,People leave with there jaws to the grownd when they leave my house waching my kit (on a good day)
I think Ive acomplished more than many other people in this forum,im satisfied,anything more is extra.
so if i can do that and have a side project i think thats prety good,I dont look for winning the World Cup or the F/F,i will compete and what ever points i get i just try to do better next year ,thats all i can do,
Its all for fun,once you forget your haveing fun,then its a job,a job that the only payment you focus on is winning it all,Its not about that,,
Merry Christmas,Hector Coya-SGVS
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Longroller
GOLD MEMBER
101 posts
Dec 24, 2008
10:55 AM
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Hector..it is good to hear that from someone that has accomplished what you have. I've been preaching that sermon for several years now, but do not have the background for it to stick..Thank you for the "speak". In some circles.."You have to earn the right to be heard". You have.
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cv rollers
199 posts
Dec 24, 2008
11:31 AM
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hector congratulations on ur accomplishments ur rite its all about fun !!!i was one of those that left with their jaws on the ground when i left ur house LOL !!!fernando asked me about the crest my brother inlaw has.i posted pic's of the youngsters one crest other no crest on this post.the parents;one is black with no band,other is black with white pepper face also no band.i made some perches for fil and he gave me some birds for the work ,through fernando
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speedball
14 posts
Dec 24, 2008
11:35 AM
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the crest is a feature or result of interbreeding. some say there is a crest pigeon bred into some family. if so why do crests pop up all over the world?
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fhtfire
1733 posts
Dec 24, 2008
11:47 AM
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Hector,
It sounds like you have your ducks in a row....and congrats on the accomplishments....it is hard to accel in a short amount of time in the sport of competing with rollers....I know what you mean..I myself entered my first Comp in 04 and started in rollers I think in 02 or so I like to say 03 because 02 was just a bunch of crap birds that didnt roll..I really dug in ..around 03....Like I said..your Goals and yours and nobody else can say anything....to each his own....Keep it up my brother....and do what makes you happy...
rock and ROLL
Paul
MERRY XMAS!!
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ezeedad
895 posts
Dec 24, 2008
12:32 PM
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Hector,
I strongly support your efforts to perfect your crested strain. It is people like you that make this hobby even more interesting.!
Probably back in the past there was somebody that saw a pigeon flip over backwards and decided to breed it...just for the fun of it. Probably there were some people that wondered why he was interested in doing that...
I have been asked many times why is it that I breed rolling pigeons.... Some people just don't get it..
The gene for crests obviously has nothing to do with roll... You should get bonus points for difficulty of execution..!!
Like I told you before.. You are an EXTREME ROLLERMAN..!!
MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY..!!
Paul Gomez
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spanky
714 posts
Dec 24, 2008
4:33 PM
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THATS RIGTH HECTOR DOES GOOD IN THE CLUB CANGRATS HOMIE KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.
SPANKY
SGVS
Last Edited by on Dec 24, 2008 4:33 PM
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millsy55
158 posts
Dec 24, 2008
6:06 PM
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john you got wot i was saying wrong wot i ment is all the birds r not the same but the standard of the roll is not that different we all have good birds wot r capable of winning a fly thats wot i mean about luck is if they do it on the day as in not get vblown away stay together no hawk attack wether right dont fly to fast or to high all these things i call luck of the day how many flys have u been on that the weather has made the differance ie the wind drops it stops raining how many times have you thought i fancy my birds today then something spoils the kit that is wot i mean about luck of the day
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Hector Coya
350 posts
Dec 24, 2008
6:13 PM
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Luck has alot to do with it,i have to be lucky if my birds dont break after there first turn around my property,or they will hit the telephone wires.They roll through those wires at least once a week,i end up with many hurt birds.
Hector Coya-SGVS
Last Edited by on Dec 24, 2008 6:15 PM
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Flipmode
320 posts
Dec 24, 2008
7:20 PM
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Hey Hector, Good luck with your Crest project. I hope to see you fly a full kit of them in the near future.
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Alohazona
525 posts
Dec 24, 2008
8:26 PM
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Hector,
We do not all fit the mold of one certain type of rollerman.Keep your eye on your goal and don't let anyone try to squash your dream.You have imagination and the thought process to ignore the safety of your subconcious, and design your future with the rollers of YOUR choice.That is EXTREME,and I'm sure you wouldn't have it any other way.....Aloha,Todd
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Scott
1358 posts
Dec 25, 2008
6:04 AM
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(Luck has alot to do with it,i have to be lucky if my birds dont break after there first turn around my property,or they will hit the telephone wires.They roll through those wires at least once a week,i end up with many hurt birds.
Hector Coya-SGVS)
Hector, is it management or instability ?
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2195 posts
Dec 25, 2008
6:26 AM
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Scott management or instability is the main thing in flying a good kit but when those birds decide to roll you don't have no saying unless you have a remote control..
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Ralph
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Scott
1359 posts
Dec 25, 2008
7:06 AM
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Ralph,if birds are commiting to the roll when it isn't safe (height) it goes back to management and or instability.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Hector Coya
351 posts
Dec 25, 2008
9:27 AM
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Scott,it goes back to management,i do alot of diferent things to Peak my kit for comp day,
When they come out on comp day you never know what youl get.
Depending on how they react to the feed program thats what iLL get.
Ive had them so hot that they whould break right out of the box,and other time they whouldnt break for about 5 minutes.
management,the time of day,the wind everything has to be in your favor,if all is,Your lucky.
Hector Coya-SGVS
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Scott
1360 posts
Dec 25, 2008
11:18 AM
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Good one Hector , for myself I have to cut my A team out in small groups, if I don't there is something about that 2nd loop and the peak of my house.
My best flys are when I see a slow wing beat and no roll what so-ever for 3-5 minutes,and once they lift into thier comfort zone ht wise I know that I got them right, I find that far more times than not that I make my own luck.
Merry Christmas !!
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Dec 25, 2008 11:19 AM
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Hector Coya
354 posts
Dec 25, 2008
12:00 PM
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Thats true Scott,when i finally get it right they will get a little higher than telephon pole wires before they do there first break,it dosnt alway happen on fly day but i keep my fingers crossed.
merry christmas.Hector Coya-SGVS
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norlan hollingate
1329 posts
Dec 25, 2008
1:19 PM
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wow scott with so much controll n management n no luck u must then win every comp u enter [just checking the world cup site] u and nobody else no matter wat there name is has any controll over the birds once u let them out and if there is so much controll n good management just let them all out together like most others
there is so much me me me with rollers
like milsey said its not just the preping the birds there is a element of luck weather bop moult pairing up etc etc
to many people are negative thinking there ways or birds are the best there aint any man who wins with his birds week in week out every comp they enter
looking at the w/c n aerc n all the club results
everyone has good n bad times over the last 10 yrs there is nobody who is there all the time
i wish good luck to everyone
dont knock anyone who trys if u wish to do it one way and someone else trys anotherway unless u are superior [usually just in ones mind] leave them be
we ar all self opinionated thats good but dont try to be another mans master
perhaps the reason we dont see great yellows or crests etc etc is because theay have not been given a fair chance
life is not about wat u have done but wat u are like
always advise people dont tell them
dictators should be culled
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